Ignorance of Alien Craft

Just a short one really in which I'd like you lot to justify your stance on Alien Visitation. I myself do not believe that anyone has ever seen a bonified alien craft for the following reasons:

• How would they know we are even here? We've only been giving off radio waves for a few decades; I doubt these would have reached any civilization and even if it did what’s the chances of them getting here?

• Why would an alien want to leave their own planet? As seen by our own technology we are going to be able to create vast virtual universes before we even get close to getting a manned ship outside of our solar-system. Add to that linking directly to the human brain and robotics I think we'll probably end up as brains in a jar exploring easily navigated a virtual universe before we start searching this boring "sit in a ship for 50 years" one, other civilisations maybe the same.

• As discussed in other threads robotic life may take over from biological life which again may remove the urge to spread out into the stars.

• The natural course of technological advancement may always lead to the self destruction.

And even if aliens did manage to get to the Planet earth:

• Why would an alien craft ever be visible in our atmosphere, to have the technology to get here shows me that they must certainly have the ability to mask their ship by bending light, we are nearly at that point ourselves so why be visible?

• Again on the technology stakes, why if you are observing humanity would you even need to enter the atmosphere, as seen in all Sci-Fi long range sensors can be used for monitoring?

• If they are here and they have a bond with the governments of this world, who authorised them to go flying around our towns and cities

Anyways the floors open… convince me.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by spitefulgod]

You have to look outside the box.
In two hundred years time, humanity will be laughing at how ignorant we were to the physics of the universe and the possibilities that we thought ridiculous simply because we didn't have the brain capacity to understand or the technology to take theories seriously.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• How would they know we are even here? We've only been giving off radio waves for a few decades; I doubt these would have reached any civilization and even if it did what’s the chances of them getting here?

You cannot expect that the only way to "be discovered" by an advanced alien space race is by radio signals. Surely, if they ARE travelling around as one can speculate, then of course they deal on a technology that you or me cannot understand, nor draw conclusions on what they are capable and what they need.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• Why would an alien want to leave their own planet? As seen by our own technology we are going to be able to create vast virtual universes before we even get close to getting a manned ship outside of our solar-system. Add to that linking directly to the human brain and robotics I think we'll probably end up as brains in a jar exploring easily navigated a virtual universe before we start searching this boring "sit in a ship for 50 years" one, other civilisations maybe the same.

I can think of dozens of reasons for aliens to leave their planet(s). (Hunger, war and curiosity are just three of them).
"sit in a ship for 50 years"... if we cannot describe in details and understand Their technology completly, we cannot conclude that they need to sit in a ship for 50 years in order to travel vast distances.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• As discussed in other threads robotic life may take over from biological life which again may remove the urge to spread out into the stars.

Yes, MAY take over.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• The natural course of technological advancement may always lead to the self destruction.

MAY lead, or ALWAYS lead?

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• Why would an alien craft ever be visible in our atmosphere, to have the technology to get here shows me that they must certainly have the ability to mask their ship by bending light, we are nearly at that point ourselves so why be visible?

Again, if we cannot place our hands on an alien spacecraft and understand completely how it works, we cannot assume that it SHOULD NOT BE VISIBLE, specially because "visible or invisible" is a matter of perspective. (Somethings that we -humans- see, are invisible to snakes, and the other way around is also true).

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• Again on the technology stakes, why if you are observing humanity would you even need to enter the atmosphere, as seen in all Sci-Fi long range sensors can be used for monitoring?

Sensors are always built to monitor something specific, not all aspects of observation.
And about those "long rage sensors" you speak of, they may exist as Sci-Fi but may not exist in Their technology, right?
Just because LightSabers exists in the movies, does not mean that there must be Jedis fighting around in the universe.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
• If they are here and they have a bond with the governments of this world, who authorised them to go flying around our towns and cities

If that last sentence is a question, then NO ONE authorized them to go flying around. Because IF they do have a bond with the govment, then they flew around here BEFORE making the bond/deal, right?

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Anyways the floors open… convince me.

Friend, convince yourself. It's the only right way to do it.


Peace

reply to post by Dermo


Yes and we'll have cloaking capabilities, remote portals etc, so why the constant visibility of ships?

Originally posted by spitefulgod

Anyways the floors open… convince me.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by spitefulgod]

Seems as though you have already convinced yourself.
Why should I care if you believe? Why would anyone who has truly seen something care if YOU believe?

Who are you?
People share their experiences here, if you do not believe them then you are basically calling them liars.

why would anyone you just insulted want to go out of their way to give you peace of mind?

Sorry friend, you are on your own here. I am not doing summersaults for you or anyone else.

I have shared what I have seen here and I am not going to repeat it over and over for every child that has their fingers stuck in their ears screaming I cant hear you!

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Just a short one really in which I'd like you lot to justify your stance on Alien Visitation. I myself do not believe that anyone has ever seen a bonified alien craft for the following reasons:

• How would they know we are even here? We've only been giving off radio waves for a few decades; I doubt these would have reached any civilization and even if it did what’s the chances of them getting here?

Yes we have only been broadcasting for 100 years or so, given the early radios were medium and long wave. Those signals can go on forever near enough, But an alien would have to have a comparable reader of those signals. Failing that if the aliens communication devices are super advanced they'd be able to recieve them , after all at our technological level we currently study the radio waves from stars lights years away, so why forget a science if it's been beneficial to you.?


• Why would an alien want to leave their own planet? As seen by our own technology we are going to be able to create vast virtual universes before we even get close to getting a manned ship outside of our solar-system. Add to that linking directly to the human brain and robotics I think we'll probably end up as brains in a jar exploring easily navigated a virtual universe before we start searching this boring "sit in a ship for 50 years" one, other civilisations maybe the same.

They'd leave the same way we will have to , because of population numbers, we are increasing at a rate the the planet we live won't be able to support us all.. therefore the need to 'expand' and colonise another planet is needed unless we start to cull the population in an extreme way.

• As discussed in other threads robotic life may take over from biological life which again may remove the urge to spread out into the stars.

• The natural course of technological advancement may always lead to the self destruction.

Only by our current way of thinking, we are a self destructive race, society and culture reforms may negate the fact, or like us at the moment threat of complete self destruction may scare the crap out of said aliens for them to find a peace amongst them.

And even if aliens did manage to get to the Planet earth:

• Why would an alien craft ever be visible in our atmosphere, to have the technology to get here shows me that they must certainly have the ability to mask their ship by bending light, we are nearly at that point ourselves so why be visible?


Maybe the field for support faster than light travel can have an effect of making said ships invisible but in an atmosphere with dust and gaseous particles in it, it may distort it enough to look like a light blob, hence the orbs and such, you run water over something and it does nearly make it invisible but it distorts the image a lot. look at a fish tank , the fish arn't at the angle your eyes are looking down, but slightly off a little. the particles in the air may interferre enough for a sighting. but you have got to be looking at the right angle at it anyway. A lot of sightings go unreported and unseen only because the persons looking the wrong way/

• Again on the technology stakes, why if you are observing humanity would you even need to enter the atmosphere, as seen in all Sci-Fi long range sensors can be used for monitoring?

If you had a chance to see something up close would you want to look at it in a telescope viewpiece?

• If they are here and they have a bond with the governments of this world, who authorised them to go flying around our towns and cities

Sometimes mistakes happen, maybe a noob alien is at the controls and fancies a joyride to scare some redneck?
Or maybe the Government says " go fly at such and such place at such and such time" to see what reaction the populace give?
That way it's another way to gauge whether or not the populace is 'mature' enough to handle the fact that we are not alone in the universe. We are still an infant race, afraid of the dark and of the unknown. As soon as we as a race realise that the universe is too big to have just us on one planet in it then maybe they'll present themselves to us. But a lot of people still think of aliens as what they see in the movies, evil and they want to suck our brains out. But I think that we judge aliens in the same vein that we are. We don't realise that maybe they travel the stars because the dont fight each other over oil , or money or valuable items , but travel for knowledge.
Any culture that can do such a thing will have a society capable of sorting its problems out without having to resort to wars.

Anyways the floors open… convince me.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by spitefulgod]

reply to post by spitefulgod


I respect your skeptism/disbelieve. You ask for a stance. This "stance" can only be one of believe, because there is no official acknowledged prove (if that is the only prove one would accept)

Like most of the skeptics you seek for anwsers on your questions within the borders of all earthly facts and knowledge, which is limited when speaking about extraterrestials.

A lot of your questions could simply be changed by putting in the word "not", the question would probably be just as hard to answer.

I believe just because of statistics (the chance of alien life existing is just very high), but this is a weak argument to say the least. But one got to believe in something?

So, will this convince you? Probably not because hard evidence is not available and when you don't believe than that's it. Only with an open mind and acceptance that things aren't always logical/rational will maybe make you say it's not impossible. Believing that Aliens exist, is still a giant leap.

Hi spitefulgod,

As someone else has already supplied answers to all your questions/theories, I won't waste page space doing the same - but I will answer a couple.

Originally posted by spitefulgod

• How would they know we are even here? We've only been giving off radio waves for a few decades; I doubt these would have reached any civilization and even if it did what’s the chances of them getting here?

Well even with our draconian technology, we can now find extra solar planets in other systems. The count is getting higher each week! Hell, we even detected methane on one of them recently!

Isn't it reasonable then to assume that an advanced race can also see extra solar planets in distant systems and much, much more without the need for intercepting radio signals?

It's also safe to assume that a percentage of them have more refined methods of transport than our combustion engines & rockets.

Anyways the floors open… convince me.

We aren't here to convince you of anything. Your free to believe whatever you like mate

IRM

[edit on 20/8/08 by InfaRedMan]

reply to post by Sator


If they have been here, observed man, his biology, his technology, they'll know exactly what we can see, that we can see them and that they have been sussed so why still the constant slip ups on their part?? I just can't believe they would still allow it to happen unless they don't consider us a threat in which case they have an alternative motive to be here other than human contact, but in which case I would think we’d see even more of them.

If they have control over gravitational waves as most people believe then they will easily be able to do the same with the other parts of the spectrum.

Originally posted by NephraTari

Originally posted by spitefulgod

Anyways the floors open… convince me.

[edit on 20/8/2008 by spitefulgod]

Seems as though you have already convinced yourself.
Why should I care if you believe? Why would anyone who has truly seen something care if YOU believe?

Who are you?
People share their experiences here, if you do not believe them then you are basically calling them liars.

why would anyone you just insulted want to go out of their way to give you peace of mind?

Sorry friend, you are on your own here. I am not doing summersaults for you or anyone else.

I have shared what I have seen here and I am not going to repeat it over and over for every child that has their fingers stuck in their ears screaming I cant hear you!

i think that pretty well sums it up. i'll only post one reply. it's justifiable because it's an idea and everybody is allowed to have them, i have seen u argue this to death on other posts, and I don't always disagree with you. But, you will not be convinced of aliens until you catch one in your teeth, wouldn't that be fair to say? so i won't try. Just like i don't see the other side ever becoming convinced just because they haven't caught one in their teeth...make sense anybody?

Originally posted by saturnus1962
reply to post by spitefulgod

 

I respect your skeptism/disbelieve. You ask for a stance. This "stance" can only be one of believe, because there is no official acknowledged prove (if that is the only prove one would accept)

Like most of the skeptics you seek for anwsers on your questions within the borders of all earthly facts and knowledge, which is limited when speaking about extraterrestials.

A lot of your questions could simply be changed by putting in the word "not", the question would probably be just as hard to answer.

I believe just because of statistics (the chance of alien life existing is just very high), but this is a weak argument to say the least. But one got to believe in something?

So, will this convince you? Probably not because hard evidence is not available and when you don't believe than that's it. Only with an open mind and acceptance that things aren't always logical/rational will maybe make you say it's not impossible. Believing that Aliens exist, is still a giant leap.

I know what you're saying, I'm wholely convinced that there is life out there I just can't see why'd they'd come here and slip up all the time by being seen, abducting people or animals then putting them back (why would you put them back, expecially dead / mulilated / probed) why have a visible ship, why have a ship at all?

Originally posted by spitefulgod
reply to post by Dermo

 

Yes and we'll have cloaking capabilities, remote portals etc, so why the constant visibility of ships?

If we are being visited by ET's that are that far advanced,
They probably see us as barely sentient and not worth wasting the insignificant amount of power that would be needed to go invisible. To them, we would be like cows are to us.

There has been a lot of talk about 'disclosure' on this site for as long as i have been here, maybe you should read up on all the different angles you are hitting on that fall into that catagory.

Originally posted by spitefulgod

I just can't believe they would still allow it to happen unless they don't consider us a threat in which case they have an alternative motive to be here other than human contact, but in which case I would think we’d see even more of them.

Perhaps they don't really see us as a threat. Perhaps they WANT to show up from time to time. Perhaps they are having "problems" with their invisibility devices when we spot them.
I believe we cannot understand their real motivations as of now, so we can only speculate why the seem to appear and disappear all the time...

I just think it's more logical to think that they appear and disappear all the time, that they don't exist at all, just because we cannot understand them.


Peace

reply to post by Dermo

unless they don't consider us a threat in which case they have an alternative motive to be here other than human contact, but in which case I would think we’d see even more of them.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
reply to post by Dermo

 

unless they don't consider us a threat in which case they have an alternative motive to be here other than human contact, but in which case I would think we’d see even more of them.

There are thousands people saying that they see them everyday, there are reports on every major news station about the UFO phenomena BUT YET you are still saying all this.

Originally posted by Sator

Originally posted by spitefulgod

I just can't believe they would still allow it to happen unless they don't consider us a threat in which case they have an alternative motive to be here other than human contact, but in which case I would think we’d see even more of them.

Perhaps they don't really see us as a threat. Perhaps they WANT to show up from time to time. Perhaps they are having "problems" with their invisibility devices when we spot them.
I believe we cannot understand their real motivations as of now, so we can only speculate why the seem to appear and disappear all the time...

I just think it's more logical to think that they appear and disappear all the time, that they don't exist at all, just because we cannot understand them.


Peace

Or that a person who believes in alien visitation suffers from the same afflicition as those with religious faith. they see what they want to see, a face in a rock is god, a light in the sky is an alien, etc etc.

I'm not saying faith or religion is bad but you guys have a lot in common me thinks.

reply to post by Dermo


Government craft, debris, visual phenomenon maybe, nothing evidential of Aliens.

Simple reply is we can't assume anything for the future, we can't assume that technologies used in Science fiction are what's coming. We don't understand Science enough at the moment to figure out transportation through space, all we have is whats left by great minded scientists like Einstein, but then again some of the scientific explanations bought up may not be fully true (wormholes and manipulating gravity).. Watched many science programs over the past god knows how long most recently they have taken scientists findings and some of the best scientists findings have been proven wrong.

On the whole 'do Aliens exist' thing I would say; I don't know. But that's just my view, I have seen a lot of things in videos and read up about experiences of 'unidentified craft'. From what I see as my view as for aliens is: I believe there is life outside our planet IF they are thousands or even millions of years ahead of us then surely their technology is much superior to ours and they would have better understanding of science and propulsion/travel.

As for Craft seen around the world I certainly think a lot of it is Human testing, and nothing to do with any Alien race. Basic craft have been seen all over the world and videos of them have been posted. I believe a lot of testing is still on going in America / Europe of new propulsion systems etc and new craft. Just look at certain planes which are flying in the skies now that have been announced 20 years after their first test flights.. The fastest plane (known and holder of the record) was built in 1960? We MUST have a better flight technology by now, nearly 50 years ahead.

People can have their own view on things and aliens etc I guess, but the whole thing which annoys me about technology and science movement is, we all pay taxes for our governments to research these things and all they want to do is produce them for war against each other... WHY? Also why is new science and technology hid away for 20 years at a time? If aliens are visiting earth and watching over us then I find it very odd that with all the destruction and wars around they are not doing anything to help.

despite all of the people who report to have seen an alien craft.. I remain skeptical. I want to believe. I just have not seen anything that is so compelling to make it a fact in my mind. aliens, much like God... both faith based entities.

Is it so hard for people to have faith that both exist?

Originally posted by spitefulgod

they see what they want to see,

If you want to go down that road...
Right... following your logic, then also there are those that don't see what they don't want to see, right?


Peace