Baghdad, Five Years On: Desperate Life And Failed Surge

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posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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This series of videos is gaining increased awareness and interest via sites like DIGG.COM and others. The videos highlight the reality that, among the people living in Baghdad, there is no such thing as a "surge" and life continues to become more and more desperate week by week.







If only western/mainstream media would provide reports on the reality represented by the actual people effected by the invasion and occupation.




posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 12:10 PM
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Utter bullcrap. I've been to Baghdad many times and things are MUCH better than when I got here. Fact is there are still some elements from within and outside of Iraqi society who violently oppose us and the Iraqi Government. The result is combat operations and resulting casualties. However it is limited in scope and most of Iraq is relatively calm since we launched the Surge. If I wanted combat I'd have to go looking for it and chances are that nothing would happen. This is a first person account.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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Pure propaganda.

I have several friends over there, not only do they back it up, but the media and the drop in troop deaths confirms the troop surge has indeed helped.

Some people really are set in their own beliefs.

[edit on 8/4/2008 by AndrewTB]



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Yeahh lets ignore the vids above and take your word for it
Things were a lot better there before your lot arrived there sunshine.
You can talk BS all day long,your not wanted there by the population by large, your just wanted there by the puppet goverment to protect them as they rape Iraq of its natural wealth

Sure Saddam was ruthless,he killed those who stood in his way.At the end of the day he Loved his country,to the extent that he wanted to Duel with the draft Dodger Bush rather than allow his country to be torn apart by the mighty war machine getting ready to roll his direction.

edition.cnn.com...

At least there was honer in this man towards his country,something Bush never had and never will.

Can you imagine if this conflict was avoided with an old fashioned duel,the amount of people who would still be alive today rather than rotting away in their early graves all because Bush and Blair lied to the world

Of course Bush is a *Snip*,he showed the world that when he didnt go to Nam.

On a lighter note Cheeeny might have liked the idea of a duel,but even then I would expect friendly fire



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[edit on 4-8-2008 by MemoryShock]



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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The US main stream media caters to their puppet masters.

Life in Iraq is a hell, those are the words of friends working in Iraq and military coming back from Iraq.

At least everyone that I know and talk to in daily basis, in my local base


Just this last Christmas we have one friend in the service visiting his family that his job was to scrape body parts from the sidewalks and streets after they are blown apart.


Yes propaganda alright.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by noangels
At least there was honer in this man towards his country


We found that little terd in a hole, hiding like a coward. There was no honor, just shame.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by noangels
...Can you imagine if this conflict was avoided with an old fashioned duel,the amount of people who would still be alive today rather than rotting away in their early graves all because Bush and Blair lied to the world



Yeah, but if they did that Haliburton wouldn't have made billions of dollars supplying soldiers with tainted water and $6 MRE's at $18 each. This war is strictly about dollars and oil. No connection with 9-11 and no WMD's...just lotsa greed by the Bush/Cheney puppets of the NWO crowd, that really run this country. War without end...John Mccain will continue the rape of the citizen's of both Iraq and the good 'ol USA, all while listless, slackjaw followers accept whatever the "bought and paid for" press spouts about "success of the surge". Wake up...before you are a slave to these neo-con madmen!!



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Cherry picked moments, in a YOUTUBE VIDEO no less, to prove that the surge failed? Do you really not have the foresight to see that this is the absolute worst way to try and pass off your propaganda as fact?



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by noangels
Yeahh lets ignore the vids above and take your word for it
Things were a lot better there before your lot arrived there sunshine.
You can talk BS all day long,your not wanted there by the population by large, your just wanted there by the puppet goverment to protect them as they rape Iraq of its natural wealth


Yeah because you saw it on YouTube right? What a joke. Why don't you come over here and see for yourself. Ah the wisdom of armchair generals. Gotta love it. You know, the population "at large" more than anything wants us here BTW. All your assertions are BS. They know if we were to leave too early the bloodletting would be unrivaled. They need us here and the vast majority of Iragis go out of their way to help us. When you climb down out of your ivory tower and have dozens of cups of tea by invitation from Iraqis, you will know what I'm talking about. My life is on the line directly, I have no interest in telling anything other than the truth. It's people like me who die first if Iraq isn't stable. So if it was as bad as you think, you would hear from people like me in much more public venues how bad it is if that were the case. Quit trying to make Iraq into Viet Nam because it's not. Your post is absolute foolishness and propaganda.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by noangels
...Can you imagine if this conflict was avoided with an old fashioned duel,the amount of people who would still be alive today rather than rotting away in their early graves all because Bush and Blair lied to the world



Yeah, but if they did that Haliburton wouldn't have made billions of dollars supplying soldiers with tainted water and $6 MRE's at $18 each. This war is strictly about dollars and oil. No connection with 9-11 and no WMD's...just lotsa greed by the Bush/Cheney puppets of the NWO crowd, that really run this country. War without end...John Mccain will continue the rape of the citizen's of both Iraq and the good 'ol USA, all while listless, slackjaw followers accept whatever the "bought and paid for" press spouts about "success of the surge". Wake up...before you are a slave to these neo-con madmen!!


Prove any of the assertions above?



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 


I'm left with two choices. Those returning from Iraq, who I often speak with are telling the truth or you are correct and they are lying.

They have served as many as three tours there and speak from first hand experience. You post what is likely pro-Insurgent/Terrorist propaganda you find on YouTube. Which one is more credible I wonder?

I'm unsure what all the flags on this propaganda piece means. Is it that many here support the Insurgents who are butchering their fellow countrymen because they don't march in lockstep with their version of Islam, or is it an emotional response from people who hate Bush or the war. Either way, its a shame truth holds such little meaning these days and people are so willing to embrace obvious propaganda (lies).

Both sides are lying and both sides have followers willing to stoop to lies and propaganda to make their points. How sad.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mister.old.school
 


I'm left with two choices. Those returning from Iraq, who I often speak with are telling the truth or you are correct and they are lying.


Well If I go by your "opinion" I am lying and so the soldiers and friends working and serving in Iraq that my husband and I happen to know and talk to.

So what will that be, I think I stay with the ones that I know has been and still in Iraq and say Iraq is hell



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


You've made the astute observation that "both sides" engage in communication strategies that involve something other than the truth. With that in mind, one can surmise this series of videos may originate from a "third side," from which truth may also be a commodity to be used sparingly.

On the other hand, shall we debate the quantity of fleas on the back of a camel? No matter your stance on this piece as exaggeration or latent reality, the fact remains that a knowingly wrongful invasion (there is no more debate about that, right?) has resulted in varying degrees of catastrophic personal hardship amongst the "regular folk" that make up the nation of Iraq. These videos may exaggerate or showcase reality, but there must first be fleas on the camel for one to count. 100 or 100,000 doesn't matter in a situation such as this, for the resulting calamity of multiplication is something civilized people should not be asked to endure.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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My only observation is FRY the neocons and nail them to the wall.

They have brought shame to America
Dual citizens all over Washington ,With one ideology to serve and Protect the homeland of Israel.
Are Americans not good enough to run Washington?



[edit on 4-8-2008 by solo1]



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


We all know war is hell Marge. Could it be you actively seek out and socialize with those who agree with you? I have no doubt you are honest in what you say.

I posted photo's from the news showing Saddam's handiwork a few days ago, but a Mod pulled the pictures because they were to gruesome. Stability at the price of freedom is hell also is it not? Do you think the families of the huge numbers pulled from mass graves were living good lives? It's a shame ATS is not mature enough to show photo's from the evening news as we all need to remember who this monster Saddam was.

The Surge worked and is working. Those opposed are pissed it worked instead of being happy they were wrong. There is something quite troubling about that to me.

We had the other alternative. Pull out after Saddam fell and watch as huge numbers were slaughtered. We have done that before. I think the body count would have been staggering.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 


So, was the solution to pull out and sit back and watch the slaughter? Knowing we could have stopped or mitigated the results? Or, is our responsibility to clean up the mess we caused and endure the pain for the sake of the Iraqis?



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by mister.old.school
 



This series of videos is gaining increased awareness via sites like DIGG.COM and others. The videos highlight the reality that, among the people living in Baghdad, there is no such thing as a "surge" and life continues to become more and more desperate week by week.


Au contraire! The SURGE was a complete success.
Problem is, you are not aware of Bush43's real purpose for the SURGE. Background. The Federal budget runs from October 1 to the following September 30. The new Democratic controlled Congress took office January 3, 2007. The new Congress was itching to get the top administration leaders UNDER oath and ON the record! The oversight Congress was supposed to do had been left undone by the old Republican Congress. The US is spending $2 b. a week in Iraq. For several years. What has that money bought us?

Problem. Bush43 had to stop a nosy Congress from January, 2007, until October, 2007.

Answer. The SURGE.

So here are my 3 reasons why HE invented the SURGE and how it has succeeded in saving American lives but NOT in giving safe space for the Iraqi to reach essential compromises. See Nancy Pelosi for more.

1) Iraqis were growing weary of the senseless killing.
The War had been going on more than 4 years. Most of the enemies of all sides had been killed. Various estimates put Iraqi deaths at between 120,000 to 300,000 between May 1, 2003 and the end of 2007. 4 years, 8 months. As contrasted with our part of World War Two, 3 years, 8 months, 25 days. But the Republicans cried, give the SURGE a chance to work!

2) Distraction.
Instead of debating the Iraq War as it was then on the ground, we ended arguing what would happen in the future. Either way, Bush43 won every single day. If he could get past October 1, 2007, it did not matter to him what the SURGE did. Keep the American people arguing over nothing and the Congress debating a non-issue, and VIOLA! Bush43 has done it to us again. Just like his WMDs. Add the SURGE to his bamboozling of the public.

3) Serendipity.
The reverse of the law of unintended consequences. Good things happen unexpectedly. After October, 2007, there was nothing Congress could do including extreme action like stopping the money flow, that would alter the FACT on the ground that between 165,000 to 140,000 US soldiers would be in Iraq on January 20, 2009. Bush43's last half day in office.

His L E G A C Y is assured however the War ends. If it ends on the GOOD side of history, he will CLAIM credit. Or, if it ends on the BAD side of history he will LAY the BLAME on the next administration for not "staying the course." But for Bush43, it's a win-win situation. He has done it to us again!

Semantics. Correlation is not necessarily causation. It may be coincidence.

FACTS. Iraq has 165,000 square miles. California has 163,000 sq mi. Iraq has 28 million people. Texas has 23.9 million. Iraq's Infant morality, 45.4 per 1000 live births (6.3). Longevity 69.7 years (78.1). Median age, 20.2 years (36.7). GDP per capita is given as $3,000 ($45,800). Unemployment rate, 18% (4.6). Note: US numbers are in parenthesis.

The CIA World Factbook lists 19 recognized political parties in Iraq.



If only western/mainstream media would provide reports on the reality represented by the actual people effected by the invasion and occupation.


I call this disgraceful happening the “Murdoch Effect.” After the Australian Rupert Murdoch. A man who has singlehandedly wrecked the Western media as we knew in before Ted Turner was “run out of town” by Time Warner. When Larry King dies, it will be all over and as they say, “in the history books.” Under Murdoch, blood sex and gore have replaced thoughtful commentary and energetic journalism. Only circulation or audience share matter. It’s called the Free Market.

Don’t you think Lyndon Johnson and Richard Nixon would have stopped the media pictures of the caskets being off-loaded at Dover AFB if they could have? Have you seen ONE single print news or electronic media SUE in Federal Court asserting the First Amendment as the basis for the right to know by the people and the 4th estate’s traditional role in gathering and conveying that news? Not one! Bush43 would have ended the Iraq War in ‘04 or lose the presidency. No pictures, no news, no one gives a dam.

Factoid. As improbable as it is, because of the Electoral College, any candidate who carries these states even by 1 vote each, would win the presidency: California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Georgia, North Carolina, New Jersey. 11 states. 39, go fly a kite!

[edit on 8/4/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by mister.old.school
 


So, was the solution to pull out and sit back and watch the slaughter? Knowing we could have stopped or mitigated the results? Or, is our responsibility to clean up the mess we caused and endure the pain for the sake of the Iraqis?


We didn't cause the mess. Saddam did back in 1991. Our collective reluctance to remove him for 10 years simply prolonged the condition. Our responsibility to Iraq is as it was to Germany, Japan, Korea and Kuwait following WW II, Korean War and Operation Desert Storm. We will leave a garrison force to assist in regional security while the local economy builds itself up to astonishingly high levels and Iraq becomes a functioning part of the global economic system. America exports security and connectivity so that we can benefit from the prosperity of others. In every place we have done this including Viet Nam the nations are profitable beyond belief, generally free of war and non threatening to the USA. Look at the huge economic potential of Iraq with all of it's oil and strategic location and how that could benefit it's population and even all of us globally if in 10 to 20 years Iraq is

a. relatively peaceful and secure

b. exporting oil at capacity

c. allied with the United States

It will fundamentally alter the Middle East the way US presence in Europe stopped wars from tearing that part of the world apart after two World Wars. Once this process is self sustaining we can focus our efforts on Sub Saharan Africa and Central Asia with Iraq as the nexus point into both regions.



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by DarthAmerica Once this process is self sustaining we can focus our efforts on Sub Saharan Africa and Central Asia with Iraq as the nexus point into both regions.


And thus it never ends...

Who is we and why do I feel like I don't want to be included within your 'we" ?..

No need to answer of course.

b



posted on Aug, 4 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by Bspiracy

Originally posted by DarthAmerica Once this process is self sustaining we can focus our efforts on Sub Saharan Africa and Central Asia with Iraq as the nexus point into both regions.


And thus it never ends...

Who is we and why do I feel like I don't want to be included within your 'we" ?..

No need to answer of course.

b


Why not answer? Have you closed your mind? Of course not so I'll indulge you. Well, first, let me answer a question with a question. Why would a person not want to be included in "we"? We is anybody who participates in Globalization. If you use the internet, have a 401K or drive a car. You are part of Globalization. So it is in your interest to be "we" unless you want to live in poverty and in perpetual warfare. The USA has left a legacy of prosperity almost anywhere US troops are stationed. Again, look at the record. Almost place US troops have remained post WW II in any significant numbers is completely free of war and extremely prosperous. Places where there are little or no US troops, such as Africa, South America and Central Asia are war ravaged and run by war lords and live much harsher lives.

Again, America exports security and economic prosperity. Why should Africans be condemned to HIV, Warlords and starvation? Why should South Americans be forces to live in poverty under drug lords. Why should Muslims be forced to revert back to the 7th Century? The worlds core nations, America, NATO, Russia, China, India, Australia, Japan, South Korea all have a responsibility to facilitate the general improvement of human quality of life globally so that you don't have to be a citizen of a G8 nation to live in peace and economic stability.

Why do you take such a pessimistic view of things when the record shows a very good history when ever America has moved into a region permanently? Most of you conspiracy theorist have an extremely irrational biased view of America. I'm not saying the USA is perfect or that it hasn't done some incredibly evil things. But overall and especially with regard to post war results the USA has a very good record with regard to the people of those regions.

[edit on 4-8-2008 by DarthAmerica]





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