What would you do if someone was beheaded in front of you?

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I have to agree with you.
That would be perfect, a bag with a lap-top in it.
I would rather deal with a cut on my arm than the thought that I did nothing.
The future of mankind will depend on the people who are ready to fight and die to save the rest.
What if this guy had decided to just go from one person to another.
If everyone just sat there, you would have ended up with a bus full of dead people.

reply to post by Vasa Croe

No one is going to know how they are going to react uhtil they are in the situation.

and there are emotional steps you have to work through to get to a place of reasoning.

And it is easy to decide things sitting from the couch. Just like the greatest athletes in teh world are watching the game from the couch.


Most of the people were probably sitting there because they were:
completely and utterly confused
had no idea what to do
were in shock
were in denial

and then responded to the flight instinct and ran.


In many many studies of psychological response to emergency situations, the first reaction is to just sit there.

Denial is the first response for most. Many report that they shut down, the feel they are watching the events from somewhere else, like an out of body experience. They can only hear or see certain things.They don't feel anything.
This is the bodies way of protecting the body and the mind from shock. Or keeping from doing something bold and stupid and making hasty decisions, and allows the brain to gather information before making decisions. Like horses panicking and running into the burning barn.


You may be able to walk around with a gun. But not all places you can. Gun ownership here is so uptight and taboo that people can't even admit they collect them.

You are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon unless your life has been threatened, and you have to prove it.
And I have seen many people who proved they were threatened, and they still were not allowed to carry.

Even if you own permits and go to a shooting range,and you have a gun in your trunk, law enforcement may still take it from you for analysis.

The ONLY people here who are armed are police and thugs.
In fact it is instinct here that if you see a gun in public you duck because your in the middle of a police shootout or a drug deal gone bad.


My point is that it is so easy to judge and think you know what you are gonna do. And most people think they are gonna be heros, but it is not fair to judge others when you were not there.


I do agree with you however that a citizen should be able to arm themselves. When i moved from my communist state to Arizona, where everyone can carry, it was like a different world that took much getting used to.

But the first thing I noticed, is that there were very little muggings, rapes, murders, etc.

Mostly burglaries and car thefts. And everyone does exercise their right to carry. Even grandma could be packing heat. LOL

I would mention guns and all of a sudden everyone whips theirs out.

They thought it was weird that they made me jump. *see former statement*

When you have an unarmed society,you just have armed thugs. Because they are gonnna get guns no matter what.

When everyone carries, no one attacks anybody.Then you have an old west shootout.

What I also learned that was interesting is that everyone highly respects their guns and are very careful with them.

They are not careless. And they take their guns very seriously. Most people seek training though they don't have too. And kids are taught to respect them.

There were hardly any accidental shootings there. But a lot of kids drowning in pools.

Not that I am gonna advocate guns in schools, but I tell people when we debate gun control: if the teachers were armed in Columbine, how far do you think those boys would of gotten?



[edit on 2-8-2008 by nixie_nox]

I sincerely hope that I'll have the courage to help who ever was in front of me.
Just as I hope that if something ever happen to me, friends or family that the person behind would help..
It's thought provoking that some people shows such indifference towards others

Great points and discussion everyone...I am really glad to hear that there are others out there that feel the same way I do, as I am glad that there are opposing views. To each their own.

I do think that in a situation like this there are many avenues of help to take. I had not heard about the old lady getting pushed out of the way, but if that really did happen then the people on the bus are even worse than I originally thought....that is a topic for another day in that I believe we should respect our elders and take care of them, after all they did raise us.

Either way...thanks for the great posts on this....I need to go back through and read them all before I comment again.

I saw a guy get shot in the head right in front of me there wasnt much i could do because the guy had a gun and i was like 12 anyway the thing is when it was happening it didnt really seem real ya know very surreal it wasnt until my brother was like did that just really f*ckin happen that i knew it was real

[edit on 2-8-2008 by BoondocSaint]

I think what happend here is the common phenonemon of "someone else will do it!"

It happens a lot, someone could be lying in the street dying and all the neighbors are thinking" im sure someone called the cops and ambulance by now.."

Its sad. so sad, I can't see how someone couldn't of got a suit case or heavy bag(Untrained, unarmed combat against a knife is a big no no.) and smack him about the head over and over. I sure as hell would.

I may not be the bravest person in the world but no way could i sit there and let something like this happen. I would rather risk injury than have someone do this.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by monkeybus]

I believe that sometimes distraction can help... I mean if you start talking to the person, they will lose the attention to, in this case the wictim, the other ones around also and they will "wake up", so to speak. Of course, if the person has you as the target it would be very risci to do that, unless you know you're way with sick people. But in that moment, then the attacker is distracted, people could maby had done something...What about the old lady someone called "useless" she may have had the guts to spray him in the eyes with a nice flavor of Diors "Addict".
No reason to wait for Steven Seagal as he is to busy playing the guitar
there are so many people who is "above the law", so many who is doing things they are full aware of. Its just a shame that the victims and those around always have to stay "below the law".
Everyday things happen minor or bigger. Sometimes people could have prevented a crime with just a phonecall or something. "Oh no, we will not get involved". Or "we did not see anything at all". The same people, who seems to see and know so much about others. Just not when crime happens...
The normal thing is to stop an accident or maby not

Well....based off the responses I have to pose another question. First though, it seems as if everyone on the bus headed for the door as soon as they could possibly get out. I can only guess that there was at least one person that led this charge for the door. This would kind of figure into a similar "mob mentality" type of thinking I would guess.

My question is could the outcome have been different if the instead the first person to say something decided to risk his/her own life to save another. I would think something along these lines could make the situation different. Kind of like a follow the leader scenario. Most likely everyone did what the first person did, so if the first person jumped up and ran for the attacker to stop him would that have encouraged the others to follow suit?

I would like to think it would have.

Well, I wasn't there, and don't know if the folks really could have saved the guy in question. And I do agree that people have either been disensitized by all the media and stories, or are just plain cowardly in many cases.

But I'll also say this. People often say "well I'd have jumped right on that guy!", because it seems like the right thing to do. But saying it, and doing it, are two very different things. Especially in very violent situations, it's true that people freeze up. Their body takes over. Chemicals really start moving, and many folks find themselves frozen or actually physically weak, especially if they are not used to that sort of thing.

Often in different martial arts schools, I heard many stories of folks that were highly trained black belts... that got their butts beat, because when faced with an actual confrontation, they found it a lot different than training. They were weak, forgot what they knew.. choked.. paniced, whatever you want to call it, their bodies did not react to the situation. There is a school one of my instructions went to in another country (mcduff? mcgraw? I forgot what it was called), but it was there for the sole purpose of trying to make folks feel like they were actually in those sorts of situations, so their bodies would react properly. This is a school where serious folks from agencies in other countries where they could not afford to panic were sent.

So while I do not condone not helping someone in need, please keep in mind it's one thing to just assume you would help, but another to actually do the deed. There are people with training that can't get it done. I am not surprised that civilians in a bus would not have a clue what to do, and that their bodies go into a survival mode instead.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


I really have an issue with your belief everyone should carry firearms. I mean, c'mon have you met "Everyone". If you have met "Everyone" did you come by my neighborhood when my neighbor Carl is home. He has one lazy eye and delivers papers, and never gets it into anyones driveway, and sometimes, misses the whole house.

If Carl was allowed to cary a gun, I think I would have to charge the state with Homicidial negligence- if not for killing himself by accident for using the gun as a can opener, or some other wacky device, for enabliing him to hurt others. He has already backed his car over 2 of his cats in the last year, and blames it on his cars "BlindSpot". But it is hard to take him seriously when he tells the story cause u sometimes do not know which one of his eyes is looking at you and which one is lazy.

So I know Guns do not kill ppl, and hammers do not kill ppl, and Steak knives do not kill ppl, ppl kill ppl. So we should have no killing zones, where if a crime is comitted, then the punishment is alot greater. It is kind of like the drug free zone in school areas. The success of the drug free zones is apparent, Higher Pot prices, and lower quality for the same pot- so Killing in a no killing zone will be limitted to only the most severe A*&*&Holes and for really really good reasons

But on a serious note, with so much anti terrorist dollars being spent on protectin - and it being the reason no one has attacked- cause we are so vigilant, has anyone thought of who else was on the bus. That's right I think one of our undercover protectors in the war on terror was on the bus, and quickly ascertained that it was domestic violence and decided not to blow his cover and got off the bus....Cause he is out there to prevent foreign terror from hapnning here....He or She had to be there...and decided not to blow their cover...casue we spent so much money to be safe..........

in canada we have a use of force model which means basically whatever force you are being subjected to you can go one above. this is for security guards and cops, but im sure anyone could use it in court. its pretty reasonable. someone is showing you assaulitve behaviourr. you are allowed to become assaultive yourself, someone comes at you with a weapon, you can use a weapon, depending on how you assess the situation, if you are looking at serious bodily injury or death, you can use lethal force. for the memory, in canada the rule is force + 1, so you are allowed to do what you have to do, but only so much to gain control of these types of situations.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Why on earth is the guy only being charged with 2nd degree murder?

Murder without motive. Sounds like insanity or possibly drug/alcohol impairment to me. No premeditation. 2nd degree murder.

I would have got off the bus pronto in 99.44% of cases.

I would've gone super saiyan on the guy

reply to post by Vasa Croe


I'll expand here on what I said in the other thread, man. If I was carrying my sidearm (I've got the CWP and I exercise my right to carry every day), I would shoot someone if I saw them attacking another person with lethal force. I believe that is a purely instinctive reaction if you are a carrier and experienced with firearm self defense.

If I wasn't carrying and nobody I am responsible for protecting was there with me, I'd look for the nearest exit and get the hell out of Dodge. 5 years ago I would have at least believed myself to be the type who would risk his life for a stranger. Today I know I would not. I've got two little children and a wife who I am responsible for. It may be that by not doing anything I'd have to answer to the Almighty in Heaven at the end of my life. Personally, I'd rather have to answer to Him for keeping my family priorities ahead of a stranger's than having to answer to Him for leaving my family behind without a husband, dad, or provider.

If my wife or kids were there with me, all bets are off. They reach the exits if it means I have to grab onto the guy and take the beheading myself. I'm not even sure I'd be in "fight" mode in that situation out of concern that I'd get careless and end up in a position other than between the attacker and my family. I'm guessing I'd go into "obstruct" mode just to make sure I remained a barrier until they were safe.

If you haven't read the book Influence by Robert Cialdini, you should.

It explains why people dont react in group situations like this. And like some people have posted earlier - there isn't enough info to go on to make judgement. You werent there and have only been spoonfed bits of information by the media.

Plus, on a narrow bus aisle with a crazed maniac swiping at you with a massive knife - you dont have much room to move. You're definitely going to get cut if you dont have a weapon. We also don't know how skilled the attacker was. I have trained with some VERY skilled martial artists and they are dangerous without a weapon. Put something in their hands, and its lights out for just about anybody...

Unfortunately I've been in plenty of not so nice situations such as robberies, bashings, stabbings, even had guns being pulled on me. Each time I reacted differently in each situation depending on how I thought i could handle the situation.

I'm definitely not a tough guy but I'm still alive so at least I'm doing something right. Unless you're actually there (and being influenced by everything and everyone around you, screaming, hysteria, bloodcurdling sounds) - its pointless trying to say you're tough and you'd do something.

On the limited info, i commend the bus people for detaining the attacker. They most probably didnt know if he had any further firearms or explosives either...

Fact:

I would have saved the day.

It's sad that people don't step up to help others.

In the UK, buses have the large red fire extinguishers that shoot out a white chalk like powder, I would have blasted him with the powder until he was on the floor coughing his lungs out then I would have smashed his skull with the bottom of the fire extinguisher until his head opened up like a tin of beans.

I'd probably be charged for attempted murder or manslaughter for doing so but that's the good old United Kingdom for ya.

Seeing how I legally carry a concealed .45 I can say with certainty that I'd cap the badguy with much pleasure and prejudice. You may feel diferent or that I'm a barbarian, but to me the person who runs away in fear and does not help his fellow man is worse than a barbarian. They are nothing.

reply to post by damagemouse


I'm not making excuses for the people on the bus. I am sure they feel very guilty that they did not help the poor victim, but there are some factors which might have made it hard for a person to apprehend the attacker without a lot of hesitation.

Oddly enough, I learned in a sociology class in college that people are more likely to take heroic action when they are alone than when they are in a group of people. People tend to become immobilized when they are in a crowd of people, and there is a long delay before anyone does anything in these situations. I think it's because our brain uses the behaviors of others to judge how we should behave, and when we see people doing nothing when something horrible happens, most of our brains "short circuit" and doubt whether our judgments are accurate...Thus the delay.

Also, I've been on Greyhound buses. They are not pleasant at all, and a lot of shady people take them, especially at night. I figure that at the time of the attack, the bus was dark (The driver usually turns off the interior lighting late at night). Also, you literally don't know who to trust around you on those buses. You don't know who has your back or not. It might have been hard for people on the bus to know if there was one or more than one assailant because of these conditions.

You also have to take into account the amount of space in the bus and the physical condition of the bus riders at the time. You know at an instant what you are capable of when a surprise event occurs. There is not a lot of space on those buses, they are dark, and there are a lot of people on them...Also, if you've been sitting in a bus seat (an uncomfortable bus seat) for more than two hours, your legs lose a lot of their strength...So if you see someone getting hacked to death in front of your eyes, your first instinct may be to run, especially if you see other people doing it.

You have to realize that many people might have been asleep during the attack as well, waking up from a shallow dream to a horrible nightmare that turned out to be reality. What happened on that bus is worse than most nightmares.

Fight or Flight kicked into full gear, I imagine, and at that instant the people probably realized it was much easier to run and save their lives than to stay and try to fight.

BTW, the new news this morning is that the attacker ate part of his victim while on the bus.

I would've paused reading ATS, stared in disbelief for a few moments stunned, closed my laptop, and smashed it into his face until he stopped. Then wish I'd bought a Toughbook.

Or at least, that is what I would like to have done. I don't think guns are the answer though, definitely not for the greater good so to speak, individually denifinitely, but as a race, no. There are a lot of twitchy people out there, more innocents would die than guilty.

I can't believe no one helped him. What a terrible death. They will live with this regret. "It was only one man, we could have stopped him."

I don't know about anyone else, but I think we, as humans, are getting angrier and more aggressive in our nature. We are not nice to each other any more, suspicion and deceit at all points of contact. There are not many people who smile on the street any more, or strangers greeting on the park (except Clapham common - UK joke lol). This has deeper meaning than just a lack of pleasantries. People don't help anymore, because people don't want to know. Out of sight out of mind.

The day the world went to hell was the day the unspoken rules of society were broken and discovered to hold no weight of punishment, of this I have no doubt. Respect to elders, give up seats, that sort of thing. People realised they had rights that they didn't really need to exercise, but did because they could. The idea of God kept things in check is the past, but I think God has had his day (not wishing to offend), at least in a 'judicial enforcer on Earth' capacity.

Anyway, all that's for another thread.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Sendran]