Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

First off, minimum wage isn't meant for people to even survive!
Let the government try and raise a family on $6.55 an hour.


But just as that article read, that adjusted for inflation, the minimum wage today is what it was in the 1950's. I think that the minimum wage should be the same straight across the board for all states. Why not?

But I do totally agree with you that a lot of people need to stop having so many kids when they can't even afford the ones they have. But this isn't the case overall.
But even if you didn't have any kids you still can't make it on that .
The cost of living is going up to the point that no one is going to benefit from the measly raise they got.

What about the ones who have done good and gotten an education or training to get their job only to see others who don't deserve it get a raise.

This is sad that you think this. I know people who is making $6.55 and has to get another job just to eat. And they work their butts off....I strongly think that they deserve it. If the minimum was increased to a decent wage this would help to stop poverty. It doesn't even equal out with gas and food going up so much. The point is we have to work and pay taxes . But I think that I as a tax payer have payed well over and beyond what I think Is fair. They take my taxes and do what with It? They need to bring the wage up to a decent standard for livingnot just surviving. I think anyone deserves this.

reply to post by nixie_nox


I build houses for humanity on my own spare time, I help out people if asked and give to some charities for food distribution and have helped all my life because I received help at a bad time in my life. But to many people I see that say they can't afford this and that have a cell phone, a car and nice jewelery on their fingers. I know their are hard working people out their that need a boost and that's why we need better programs, not hand outs. Hand it out and they will come back for more.

I edited to take away the first sentence and apologise for getting so up tight about this. You all make some great points.

[edit on 7/24/2008 by Solarskye]

Originally posted by LiquidCrystalz
They need to bring the wage up to a decent standard for livingnot just surviving. I think anyone deserves this.

In theory, this is great. In reality, it doesn't work that way. No matter what you do, there is always going to be a poor class that squeaks to get by. I WAS in that poor class 10 years ago and I worked hard to get into the middle class. When you raise the minimum wage, the cost on everything goes up to cover it. Businesses have to make a profit or they don't stay in business. Since businesses have to pay higher wages to their employees, they raise their prices. All this really does is squeeze the middle class because many of us don't have wages that are anchored to minimum wage. This recent hike was nothing more than a paycut for me and those like me.


[edit on 24-7-2008 by BlueTriangle]

reply to post by BlueTriangle


All an increase in minimum wage does is cause inflation. It also helps to widen the gap between the rich and poor. In essence it helps no one. I don't have any good answers for those that are living on it other than to go into business for yourself. My nephew actually quit law school to cut grass fro a living. He now makes over 100k a year doing just that and takes off three months of the year. His health care is provided by part time job that provides it. He works three hours a day there. There are ways to get above minimum wage. One must be energetic and ingenious to do it. Yes bad things happen to put people down. Staying there is often their own fault.

respectfully
reluctantpawn

I live in an area where there are section 8 townhomes. I know some of the residents. Yes they make minimum wage (the ones that work) but they also get 400-500 a month in food stamps, state health care(free), utilities paid for by local charities, cable TV, high speed internet, and pay between 25-50 a month rent (the ones I know) in townhomes that rent to non-section 8 people for 650. Most of these people have more left at the end of the month then me, and I work a full time job. Also, more kids means more money, also less rent, so alot of these familys have lots of kids and get even more.

Pisses me off.

reply to post by muzzleflash


the people that make nothing and do nothing in there life have nobody to blame but themselves..

i went through this in another thread. but just because you American, you are not entitled to make good money, or get cheap gas/food/housing. the sooner that a lot of the whiners and people who suck on the gov't teet learn that, the sooner we can push forward and get through the hard times that are facing us

spend more time making your life better, and less time complaining with you hand out, and you may get a little more of my respect.

i bust my ass for everything i have, all i have education wise is a diploma, and i won't get into specifics. but i have a house, a car, 6 animals, and i am perfectly capable of going out and enjoying myself. it's called responsibility, and self accountability. lear it... use it... succeed.

/rant

reply to post by SRTkid86


This doesn't argue against your post, nor for it; but I thought it was an interesting turn of phrase 'the people that make nothing and do nothing.'

This also applies to the obscenely wealthy. They make nothing, they do nothing. Yet they, in a very real sense, are the one's controlling everything, go figure.

reply to post by Oldtimer2


HELLLLOOOOO, they had 6 friggen kids.... someone didn't just come by and pwan the kids off on them. they had sex, unprotected... got pregnant and didn't opt for an abortion.

it's their god damn fault they are poor, not mine. why should i have to suffer for it?

it is your life, you make the choices... if they are bad ones and you get stuck in a viscious cycle. then you have nobody to blame but yourself.

reply to post by Solarskye


yah I dont know... thats pretty harsh judgement.. I had a child young.. and its tough but im gettin' by.. I never wished I never had my daughter... and I have worked for minimum wage.. (although im in canada its higher) and if there were no people working for minimum wage.. and were all "educated" then there would be nobody to ring through and make your fast food.. or nobody at wal mart to take money from you. LOL.. granted six kids.. ya thats a tad much I have to agree there

Great post

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ToolFanMael]

I'm going to start off by saying that I agree there is a problem with income and inflation, and that I do not have a solution to the problem.

I currently work two jobs one is basically salary while the other is minimum wage. I only have a high school ed. and have tried to go to school with no luck do to finances. I make less than 8000 a year and cannot even get a loan for school to better myself. So I am stuck working for MW. oh and let me state that my "salaried" job only pays me 450 a month before taxes and that is in line with what the state grants for my position.

In my area and others I've lived in there are no such thing as a 40 hr week for MW workers. Hell I'm lucky to get 25hrs. This means I need to work at least 2 jobs for a 40 hr week income. Unfortunately there are not enough jobs out there to do that.

And looking through the job market unless i want to be a nurse there really are no jobs out there even for educated people. I have multiple friends that have graduated from college and are working MW jobs because they is nothing in the fields that they wanted to work in.

I guess my point with this post is what are we supposed to do in a failing economy where there are no jobs even for the educated and how do you get educated when you can barely afford to feed yourself?

By the way I live with a roommate, I'm single have no Girlfriend or children, and I can't even afford to go to the movies or even buy a dvd.

reply to post by ToolFanMael


I'mdefinetly not perfect in anyway and me and my wife have six kids. I work all day and my wife all night for not much over what minimum wage is, but we don't live beyond our means, we don't have any credit cards and we pay our bills. I learned a lesson when I was younger that if you have problems and you let them stick around and pile more on top of that then it's harder to dig yourself out. I was there and dug myself out and don't want to go back there if I can help it. I know it's tough out there and there are people who need the help and deserve it so I apologize to them for my remarks, but like many others have said, it does hurt everyone down the road. Alot of people won't look for better jobs when they have government assistants, to them that means no more assistants "OH NO "

I also want to say that if our government would of spent the money the way it was meant to be spent and raised those minimum wages on time then things wouldn't be so bad.


[edit on 7/24/2008 by Solarskye]

reply to post by Maxmars


the things is about rich people is that the money came from somehwere. now while A LOT of people would like to think that they STOLE it from us unwillingly. you have to remember these rich people most likely went to school, and worked hard to get everything they have as well. or their parents did it etc... just because you are rich doesn't make you some theiving d-bag. a lot of wealthy people are wealthy because they did what they had to do to get by, and either got lucky, or are very smart.

in other words don't hold your poverty against them because they have more than you. it's not their faul that things worked out for them, most likely because they MADE them work.

they are rich because they had the drive to be rich. they aren't rich because they held the gov't at gunpoint and stole it from the treasury.

The only thing i agree with the original poster on is people shouldnt have kids if they are not able to support them.

If a company cant afford to pay someone a reasonable amount they just shouldnt be in business.

Get a education ya ya ya a lot of people with education make nothing. A lot of jobs go over seas. Then you gotta compete with a thousand people to get a job here.

Its more who you know and not what you know.

You wanna fuss about something fuss about the filthy rich who constantly get breaks.

The fact is the cost of living goes up so much more than wages. Whats a dollar raise? You think thats gonna offset the cost of living?

This is America the slave days are over if a man REGUARDLESS Of education gives you a fair days hard work he should get a fair days pay.


End of case .

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ncuncfan2006]

reply to post by ncuncfan2006


not if he is half retarded and you had to stand over his shoulder all day to make sure he didn't screw up loading the stapler up for you.

get real dude. all this entitlement crap is going to be the death of this country. people thinking that because they are American, and that they should get to live better than everyone else just because of that is the problem with this country today. people who instead of blaming themselves and trying to make it better, they blame the gov't and demand that to make things better for them that the min. wage is raised. causing everything else to go up in price.

you think Wally world if going to start paying all their employees 8/hour and keep rolling back prices? you got another thing coming. in business... extra costs and taxes ALWAYS get's passed down to the consumer. so instead of poor people making more money and living a better life, they are going to be stuck in the same predicament. except now instead of bread costing 1.25 it'll be 2.50 etc...

just GIVING them more money is NOT the answer. it won't do anything but make things tighter for the people that actually do work hard, and deserve the wages that they earn.

Originally posted by SRTkid86
reply to post by Maxmars

 

the things is about rich people is that the money came from somehwere. now while A LOT of people would like to think that they STOLE it from us unwillingly. you have to remember these rich people most likely went to school, and worked hard to get everything they have as well. or their parents did it etc... just because you are rich doesn't make you some theiving d-bag. a lot of wealthy people are wealthy because they did what they had to do to get by, and either got lucky, or are very smart.
in other words don't hold your poverty against them because they have more than you. it's not their faul that things worked out for them, most likely because they MADE them work.
they are rich because they had the drive to be rich. they aren't rich because they held the gov't at gunpoint and stole it from the treasury.

In particular I was referring to the 'obscenely' rich. But your point is well-taken. The people some may consider rich - the one's who had a plan and went for it, or made something, developed or invented a thing, these people are RARELY, if ever, obscenely rich.

There are however, those who ARE. And you know what - THEY DID STEAL IT - or their parents or grand parent or great grand parent did. And they will do all sorts of things to ensure that they ALWAYS have that wealth. Most of them involve anything but 'earning' it.

But hey, what do I know... I am poor. Some might say middle class - but that is an illusion. The middle class was killed some time ago, there are those in debt, and there are those not, if you are in debt, you are poor. Suck it up. If your not, good luck and take care, or you may soon be.

reply to post by Maxmars


point taken, but i don't see how it was stolen.

you don't see news articles about people being held at gunpoint and taking money from anyone. they have something to offer, whatever it may be, and it was important enough to make them money.

but im not trying to be argumentative. and i am NOT rich for the record. i just don't see how comlaining and saying that it's unfair is productive.

I gotta go but will be back when I get home. This is why I love ATS because we can discuss problems rationally and learn alot of different views. I'd like to see everyone out of America's so called poverty. The one that isn't even close to other country poverty levels but still it has to be hard. The government doesn't help they just make things worse to cover their own mistakes. I've seen some awesome stories where people were down and out, living in a bathroom with a son and close to dieing, but the father said no more and is now wealthy. There's been thousands of stories where people made it out and some way out of being poor. I'm glad you all posted your feelings and I'm learning a few things myself. I guess I'm mad mostly at the government for letting it get this way and for the people to grab and swallow the hook, line and sinker.

[edit on 7/24/2008 by Solarskye]

The people working to make minimum wage are probably working for companies with a large turnover, and where the directors or CEOs of said companies are probably taking $250,000/year or more in pay.

Minimum wage is an excuse to pay people nothing. It's a way of trying to separate us from those in India and China who we hold up as being poorly treated, and hide behind the "but we have a minimum wage ensuring a minimum standard for everyone".

Too bad that standard isn't high enough.

About 2 or 3 months ago they said the poverty line in the UK is approx. £13,000/year or $26,000. There are a LOT of people earning less than this.

Minimum wage needs to meet this at a minimum, for anyone to have a chance of having a life.

They people wonder why crime is so high, and people would prefer to be on state benefit (it pays more than a regular job!)...

reply to post by SRTkid86


I am probably in the same time zone as SolarSky because I have to commute now too. But I would like to continue this exchange when I get back home.

I will explain what I mean about stealing, - it really isn't about forcefully taking something that belongs to someone else. Its about taking undo advantage and monopolizing on ignorance in general. Thanks for the level-headed exchange. If you are around later I'll post my point anyway, maybe you can catch up when you have time.

I don't think it should be legal for people to have more than two children.

Aside from that, I can't bring myself to agree with anything that people against raising the minimum wage are saying. Apart from the fact that yes, we ALL absorb the costs. I will address several points.
1) "GET AN EDUCATION"- This is horse sh!t. I know more people that graduated college with degrees than I do people who dropped out (me) or never went. I make as much or more money than all but ONE of the people who got a degree, and he had to leave the state to get that job. Being educated does NOT mean you're getting paid. It DOES mean that you can look forward to paying student loans for twenty years with that call center job. If education was state-sponsored, then yes, getting an education is a viable option for getting out of poverty. But stacking up the debt required to get a degree from a decent school (while working for, roughly, sharecropping wages to pay rent) is not a real solution in America today.

2) "RICH PEOPLE GOT RICH BECAUSE THEY ARE SMART/LUCKY"- No, rich people exploit workers and buy labor for FAR less than it is worth. Look at a standard Fortune 500 CEO. He contributes roughly NOTHING to the day to day operations of his company, the operations that bought his yacht, and makes more in a year than AT LEAST 50 people who make money for him while he "creates new paradigms", and tells people they need to make more money for the company. How can you possibly respect that? Or worse, ASPIRE to that? I don't think you can make over 150k a year without exploiting people on a daily basis. Taking people trapped in situations where they 'need this job' and telling them, "Okay. 6.50 an hour. No insurance. You have to pay rent, right?

And just like that, my lunch break's over (Obv. at work), so I may or may not get back to finish this list.

A quick project: If you took the GDP of the USA and divided it evenly among all of us, how much money would everybody have? Remember, this amount includes children.......