Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

reply to post by coop039


You are talking about leeches and people who feed off taxpayers.. A totally different topic imo

reply to post by '___'eviant


ok to reply to you point about the CEO sailing the seas in his yacht while his eomplyees are doing "all the work" for him.

don't you think for a second that that CEO had to bust his ass himseld for a little while before he got to the point of being able to let his money, make him money?

i mean that is the smartest thing a wealthly business can do is to hire people to do the work for him. it's not exploiting anyone to let someone make you more money. hell, it's costing him to have those people do that for him... what he pays them is between him and the employee, if it wasn't enough money for them... they could have kept looking. the employer puts the word out and says, i want someone to do this job, and i will pay them this much.

it's really hillarious to see some of the true colors of people around here... it's simply jealousy, i assure you that rich CEO making 1mil+ a year didn't just start out at the top... everyone starts somewhere... and let me tell you. it's VERY RARELY at the top. so please don't let your own ignorant jealousy cloud your intellectual abilities. if you worked as hard as some of those CEO have to... when it came time that you could afford to hire someone to work FOR you, trust me you would be ready for the retirement too...

the reason i say these things, is because i literally am running a business right now. and i have a elementary understanding of the logic in doing things the way they are done...

reply to post by ncuncfan2006


i would give the man the raise... im not a greedy corporate douche.

or better yet, i will tell him i'll give him a 1 dollar/hour raise and i will reimburse him for any schooling that he does that pretains to the job he is performing, or course the schooling would have to be off hours, when he is not supposed to be at work. and when he gets done with his schooling, i will bump him up to 11/hour, or course he would have to contract himself with me for a certain amount of time after he got out of school in order for me to commit to paying for his schooling... when you have an asset to you company, you do whatever you have to do to keep him around... it's how the game is played, if you are messing with a small business, big corporations don't do things like that very often because if they don't want the job. the next high school drop out that comes in (not offense to drop-outs) will take the job, no questions asked.

i realise that is not how a lot of people would do it, but when i manage things, i understand that the morale of your employees is a very important aspect of running a successfuly business.

I didn't see anyone mention this, maybe someone did, but there are VERY FEW PEOPLE in the United States who make minimum wage. Most of them are young, and the statistics suggest they are not using it to support a family (have no kids, live with parents, minors, etc.).

I worked retail for 5 years before and after graduating high school. I made $6.50 an hour on my first retail job when I was 16, over $1 over minimum wage. Without any experience, and without a high school diploma. By the time I ended my retail career, I was making $10 an hour, with only a high school diploma (before I graduated college). No one is going to tell me they can only work minimum wage jobs.

The economics on this is very clear: raising minimum wage raises the costs for everything, so those who get paid minimum wage experience a cost of living equal to or greater than what they were paid previously - so they gain nothing. The only way to raise their rates would be to eliminate minimum wage, but we live in too much of a nanny state for that ever to happen.

reply to post by SRTkid86



A lot of people are born into money. What do you think about Paris Hilton?

Every year the Nobel committee hands out Nobel prizes to American economists, like they were mint candy. Look at the shape the US economy is in and it's outlook. When I read the comments of allegedly "smart" people on this site who think they know what they are saying about economics, well, I wonder.
Yikes.

I have 2 sons, aged 18 and 16 and they are thrilled with their minimum wage increase!

They both work at the same fast food joint, and are reliable workers. Their hours will not be cut. However there are others that do face cuts in their hours, some others will be let go.

I wonder how many minimum wage workers will face working less hours and I wonder how many will be let go because of this?

Government can not dictate something to business, and not have some sort of reaction. Most of the time the reaction is negative, and the workers that the government thought they were helping end up being hurt.

try telling the ceo of the oil company that he will now get a raise on his minimum wage, and see what happens....better still, try telling the wall st stockbroker that he has just lost his minimum wage.

what is minimum wage. it is meant to suffocate you to death, alternatively to give your job to the sweat shop industry.

A lot of people do not understand the primary issue with raising the minumum wage, especially at a time like this. Raising the minimum wage now to make it easier on those earning it actually makes it more expensive for everyone (even the person whose minimum wage was upped), because it floods the market with more paper money, which drives down the miniscule value of that which already exists. In effect, the logic behind raising minimum wage is to combat inflation through more inflation. It has been trumpeted a lot on this board, but if we do not address the fundamental problem with money (which is that we have a fiat currency with no sustainable value), then we will just continue to perpetuate the problem.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by BennyHill]

All I know is that I make 7.50 an hour and my bills come up to $800 and I do just fine. Even had enough money to take a small vacation to Colorado this summer. Grant it I work 50 hours a week, I still make a decent living.

reply to post by son of PC


Don't worry, the economic 'wise heads' of 1928 were jumping out of windows in 1929.

Market economies are a fact of life - centrally planned economies (IE: communism) clearly have not worked in practice.

Somehow this fact has been taken by some people to mean that if statist absolutism fails, market absolutism must therefore work well - it's a bit like assuming that since starvation is invariably fatal, constant overeating must be good for you

Every single successful economy on Earth is a mixed economy which pairs a market economy with a welfare state that "socializes" some essential services - education, roads, etc - and a welfare state that acts as a social safety net for it's poorest members.

Every single one, without exception.

To the extent that Laissez-faire economics have been tried, they have either been abandoned after economic & social mayhem or overthrown by Communist revolution.

As for what life under a pure laissez-faire system is actually like: ever read Dickens?

I see alot of post's here that just tell me that alot of people dont know how minimum wage and the cost of living is supposed to work. So instead of trying to explain myself, I encourage all to read this.www.commondreams.org...

We are well below The amount that minimum wage should be. I hear middle class people saying these people should get a better education so they can make more. But at the same time they are complaining that they dont see an increase when the minimum goes up. Well, maybe you should better your education and make more than you do now. Do you see how ludacris that sounds. If we where all middle class, than who is gonna Work in jobs like retail? Retail employs 50 percent of all minimum wage workers in the us. Lets not even get started on the poor waitresses That only make around $2 30 an hour and rely on tips to survive.

I urge all to read the post in the link i provided. It really puts it into perspective.

Thank you
russ1969

Originally posted by BennyHill
A lot of people do not understand the primary issue with raising the minumum wage, especially at a time like this. Raising the minimum wage now to make it easier on those earning it actually makes it more expensive for everyone (even the person whose minimum wage was upped), because it floods the market with more paper money, which drives down the miniscule value of that which already exists. In effect, the logic behind raising minimum wage is to combat inflation through more inflation. It has been trumpeted a lot on this board, but if we do not address the fundamental problem with money (which is that we have a fiat currency with no sustainable value), then we will just continue to perpetuate the problem.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by BennyHill]

Perhaps we should euthanize 1/2 of the US population, or just not pay them for the services they do. That should drive up the availability of high paying jobs, AND the value of the dollar! But since inflation exists independant of minimum wage, what do you suggest we do in all seriousness?

@the guy who responded to me earlier; do you think there is a single job in the world that is worth the amount of money that CEOs make? If so, do you think that it's the job CEOs perform?

And most CEOs don't work their way up the corporate ladder. Most are outside hires from an extremely tiny circle of families that are already stupidly wealthy. I'm not jealous of them; I have no desire to sail in a yacht while people starve to death

Yes, people want their plasma screens and what nots.

Although, when people like this make many many more times the money from fleecing people locked into the slavery of mortgage payments, I think people generally get a little upset.

That guy makes more money than all of Australia's sitting parliamentarians combined. I'm glad we have our priorities in order - you can either be a politician and be hated, or be a bank CEO, still be hated, but make a boatload more money.

Originally posted by BennyHill
A lot of people do not understand the primary issue with raising the minumum wage, especially at a time like this. Raising the minimum wage now to make it easier on those earning it actually makes it more expensive for everyone (even the person whose minimum wage was upped), because it floods the market with more paper money, which drives down the miniscule value of that which already exists. In effect, the logic behind raising minimum wage is to combat inflation through more inflation. It has been trumpeted a lot on this board, but if we do not address the fundamental problem with money (which is that we have a fiat currency with no sustainable value), then we will just continue to perpetuate the problem.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by BennyHill]

So please explain why you think raising minimum wage will flood the market with more paper money? The only way to strengthen the economy is to have people spend money. It is basic economics. When people dont have money to spend, Then the economy gets weakened and that is when the feds print more money. We need people spending money and the feds keep the interest rates down. Before long we will be a thriving country again. Of coarse There are other factors involved, But we need to focus on the main ones right now. Fuel prices are dropping, The dollar gained this week against the euro. We have a ways to go but there is hope.

I will come back to this topic in a year and see where we are then. Give it a chance to run it's course.

reply to post by beforetime


So what should young people do, work dead end jobs for 20 years and not get anywhere, or go to college for 3 or 4 years and be ahead I know education in the states is expensive, so I think anyone making the effort there deserves what they get.

Education is the key, it doesn't matter how old your are, you must keep learning.

Good post. I was contemplating the exact thing last night on the way home from work while listening to the story on NPR.

What blows my mind, is fully grown adults, with multiple young children, seem to think they "deserve" to "make it" by sacking groceries or flipping burgers.

Let me tell you, I can't survive on minimum wage. So, I took the necessary steps to obtain employment in a position that is more valuable. More demanding jobs that require more expansive or specialized skill sets pay more money. Period. I don't pay the kid who cuts my grass more because he says he "needs" it, I pay him what the job is worth. I have no remorse for people who are not getting by because they work for minimum wage. I don't even think we should have a minimum wage. You earn what you're worth.

Oh, and let me voice my opinion on the education factor.

I think too many people use it as a cop out. As the poster above mentioned, education here in the states can be astronomically expensive. Because of the cost involved, it's an easy excuse not to get one, then blame your minimum wage job (and lack of education) on the cost of education. This is ridiculous.

With a little ingenuity, a desire to succeed, and a solid work ethic, it's entirely possible to earn 6 figures with a high school education. Work ethic is key. People work dead end jobs because they want to. Or rather, they don't want to put forth the additional effort required to earn more than minimum wage.

reply to post by Solarskye


I agree 100% with everything you've said. The government doesn't exists to take care of you it exists to execute the will of the governed. If you can't take care if yourself then that's on your head! Why should my tax dollars go to bail you out? Whoever appeals to the government to provide for him is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of themselves without that assistance is both.

With a little ingenuity, a desire to succeed, and a solid work ethic, it's entirely possible to earn 6 figures with a high school education.

It's entirely possible to work your behind off your whole life and still not end up making much at all, I've seen plenty who do.

And plenty of people, most people frankly, don't have much ingenuity.
When you have an average, by definition you're going to have people who are above average, average, and below average.

The argument of Social Darwinists is basically the idea that those who are "below average" should starve, or die for lack of medical care, etc... or that their children should (and the "let em eat cake" crowd will no doubt exclaim that they shouldn't have kids - but they do anyway.)

Work ethic is key. People work dead end jobs because they want to. Or rather, they don't want to put forth the additional effort required to earn more than minimum wage.

People also sometimes have bad luck, and work dead end jobs because they can't find anything else

Whenever I run into this kind of attitude, I always wonder if the people making the argument have ever actually lived in the real world.