reply to post by VitriolAndAngst
Minimum wage does not increase the cost of living? Perhaps my genealrized claim was at fault. I will narrow it down: Minimum wage increases
CONTRIBUTE to the cost of living increase.
Have you had the opportunity to learn the basics of commerce? Rule #1: The more the overhead costs, the more the merchant must charge for their
product in order to make money. If minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of service and products. Otherwise, the business owners would have to cut
overhead somewhere else, for instance; combining two positions into one and eliminating an employee. That unemployed person then may turn to welfare.
In order to continue funding welfare programs, the government has to increase the tax or cut other programs. Printing more money is not a solution
to this problem.
Printing more money DEVALUES the international purchasing power of the dollar and messes with the trade standard. Paper money is backed by our
precious metals (that is why they stamp "this note is legal tender") otherwise it is just paper. Printing more money will affect international
trade and that ALSO raises how much things cost, ie: the cost of living increases accordingly, but only if our imports are greater than our exports.
Internal trade and external trade are different and affected differently. Imports and exports are a whole other concept.
Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining, page 36
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reply posted on 14-8-2008 @ 08:37 PM by plumranch
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
You have unknowingly made a realistic point in your above statement. If the business can't afford to pay a lot more in wages then it should not exist. This is actually what occurs in the real world. Business can't afford to pay more because they can't compete so they go out of business and lay off employees. No business, no employees, no wages everyone collects unemployment. Everyone looses.
Raising mimimum wage is the reason American jobs are going to China and Mexico. We don't need to pay more for our goods, we can shop at Walmart and buy foreign goods made in countries that have no mimimum wage.
This whole mimimum wage issue is such a simple concept (ie. raise mimimum wage = loose jobs) yet it is not understood. Incredible.
and can't afford to pay your employees a living wage then you shouldn't have that business in my opinion.
You have unknowingly made a realistic point in your above statement. If the business can't afford to pay a lot more in wages then it should not exist. This is actually what occurs in the real world. Business can't afford to pay more because they can't compete so they go out of business and lay off employees. No business, no employees, no wages everyone collects unemployment. Everyone looses.
Raising mimimum wage is the reason American jobs are going to China and Mexico. We don't need to pay more for our goods, we can shop at Walmart and buy foreign goods made in countries that have no mimimum wage.
This whole mimimum wage issue is such a simple concept (ie. raise mimimum wage = loose jobs) yet it is not understood. Incredible.
reply posted on 17-8-2008 @ 08:56 AM by ofhumandescent
reply to post by slackerwire
In the rest of the world socialism is not a dirty word.
Yes in my opinion there needs to be a rethinking of the way wages are determined.
The gap between the highest and lowest income families is significantly wider than it was 25 years ago and with each year that gap is widening. An analysis of income tax data by the Congressional Budget Office found that the top 1% of households own nearly twice as much of the nations corporate wealth as they did 15 years ago.
Low and middle income families have reaped few gains since the late 1990's despite the recent years of economic prosperity. Average incomes actually fell by 2.5% for those in the bottom fifth of the income scale and rose by just 1.3% for those in the middle fifth. Meanwhile, incomes climbed 9% for those in the top fifth.
During 1980-2005 incomes grew much more slowly for the bottom fifth of families then for the top fifth. The richest fifth grew by and average of 39% or $36,300. and the purchasing power of the poorest families increased by just $93.00 per year.
Before the recent downturn hit, our economy was generating solid income gains. The problem was that high levels of inequality meant that these gains failed to reach the middle and lower income families, whose living standards stagnated or even declined.
Growing income inequality harms this nation in a number of ways, when income growth is concentrated at the top of the income scale, the people at the bottom have a much harder time lifting themselves out of poverty and giving their children a decent start in life.
The top tenth of one percent of earners, for example, now earn four times as much as in 1980. The gains have been larger still for those even higher up the income ladder. For more then 25 years, Business Week has conducted an annual survey of the earnings of chief executive officers of the larges US Corporations. In 1980 those executives earned 42 times as much as the average American worker. (YOU ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS FAIR OR JUST OR RIGHT?)
This was larger than the corresponding ratios for such countries as Japan and Germany.
By 2000 American CEOs were earning 531 times the average worker's salary (You don't see the injustice of this?).
An example of ths is in 2006, Alpha Magazine, James Simons, a hedge fund manager earned 1.7 billion last year and two other hedge fund managers made more than 1 billon. NOW COME ON IS ANY HUMAN BEING WORTH THAT OUTLANDISH AMOUNT THIS IS GREED GREED GREED.
The combined income of the top 25 hedge fund managers was over $14 billion in 2006.
How does this affect the rest of us? Well if it keeps going there will be no middle class only the serfs and "the kings".
Yes I think we should
-- Update unemployement Insurance systems to better reflect today's workforce.
-- Extend the amount of time workers receive benefits during an economic downturn.
-- Raise the state minimum wage and index it for inflation and
-- Maintain or improve support services such as transportation, child care and health coverage.
I also believe and maintain the upper 5% are not paying their fair share of taxes. Something has got to change, while I myself am not in the top 5% I have been fortunate enough to be above the national average I do believe it is time for a change. It's time to re-examine the rules as wage structures are not determined logically according to someone's real worth, they by and large are manipulated and the common man is too dumb to see this manipulation.
[edit on 17-8-2008 by ofhumandescent]
In the rest of the world socialism is not a dirty word.
Yes in my opinion there needs to be a rethinking of the way wages are determined.
The gap between the highest and lowest income families is significantly wider than it was 25 years ago and with each year that gap is widening. An analysis of income tax data by the Congressional Budget Office found that the top 1% of households own nearly twice as much of the nations corporate wealth as they did 15 years ago.
Low and middle income families have reaped few gains since the late 1990's despite the recent years of economic prosperity. Average incomes actually fell by 2.5% for those in the bottom fifth of the income scale and rose by just 1.3% for those in the middle fifth. Meanwhile, incomes climbed 9% for those in the top fifth.
During 1980-2005 incomes grew much more slowly for the bottom fifth of families then for the top fifth. The richest fifth grew by and average of 39% or $36,300. and the purchasing power of the poorest families increased by just $93.00 per year.
Before the recent downturn hit, our economy was generating solid income gains. The problem was that high levels of inequality meant that these gains failed to reach the middle and lower income families, whose living standards stagnated or even declined.
Growing income inequality harms this nation in a number of ways, when income growth is concentrated at the top of the income scale, the people at the bottom have a much harder time lifting themselves out of poverty and giving their children a decent start in life.
The top tenth of one percent of earners, for example, now earn four times as much as in 1980. The gains have been larger still for those even higher up the income ladder. For more then 25 years, Business Week has conducted an annual survey of the earnings of chief executive officers of the larges US Corporations. In 1980 those executives earned 42 times as much as the average American worker. (YOU ACTUALLY THINK THIS IS FAIR OR JUST OR RIGHT?)
This was larger than the corresponding ratios for such countries as Japan and Germany.
By 2000 American CEOs were earning 531 times the average worker's salary (You don't see the injustice of this?).
An example of ths is in 2006, Alpha Magazine, James Simons, a hedge fund manager earned 1.7 billion last year and two other hedge fund managers made more than 1 billon. NOW COME ON IS ANY HUMAN BEING WORTH THAT OUTLANDISH AMOUNT THIS IS GREED GREED GREED.
The combined income of the top 25 hedge fund managers was over $14 billion in 2006.
How does this affect the rest of us? Well if it keeps going there will be no middle class only the serfs and "the kings".
Yes I think we should
-- Update unemployement Insurance systems to better reflect today's workforce.
-- Extend the amount of time workers receive benefits during an economic downturn.
-- Raise the state minimum wage and index it for inflation and
-- Maintain or improve support services such as transportation, child care and health coverage.
I also believe and maintain the upper 5% are not paying their fair share of taxes. Something has got to change, while I myself am not in the top 5% I have been fortunate enough to be above the national average I do believe it is time for a change. It's time to re-examine the rules as wage structures are not determined logically according to someone's real worth, they by and large are manipulated and the common man is too dumb to see this manipulation.
[edit on 17-8-2008 by ofhumandescent]
reply posted on 17-8-2008 @ 09:14 AM by jimmyx
Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
and can't afford to pay your employees a living wage then you shouldn't have that business in my opinion.
You have unknowingly made a realistic point in your above statement. If the business can't afford to pay a lot more in wages then it should not exist. This is actually what occurs in the real world. Business can't afford to pay more because they can't compete so they go out of business and lay off employees. No business, no employees, no wages everyone collects unemployment. Everyone looses.
Raising mimimum wage is the reason American jobs are going to China and Mexico. We don't need to pay more for our goods, we can shop at Walmart and buy foreign goods made in countries that have no mimimum wage.
This whole mimimum wage issue is such a simple concept (ie. raise mimimum wage = loose jobs) yet it is not understood. Incredible.
so if i take your "logic" a step further...if we "reduce" the minimum wage to say 1 dollar an hour all these businesses will come back to america and end the unemployment of americans and everybody will have jobs. WHAT A GREAT IDEA!!! we will all be working... and living in the same carboard shacks that other poor countries people live in. what a business model!!! what true patriots the wealthy will become!!!!...long live the king!! long live the king!!
reply posted on 1-9-2008 @ 09:09 PM by crimvelvet
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
You are living in a dream world. 80% of small businesses fail. Small business owners generally do not make a "good living" most make the same type of living as the rest of middle class America but they work 80 hours a week and often risk their life savings to do it. In the words of my small business professor "they bought themselves a job." and nothing more.
Many are like my friends and I. We reached middle age and found we are considered "Unemployable" due to our age. Instead of going on welfare we took a risk and started a small business. I see many of these people at the local fleamarket or at a farmers market each week. Something like 80% of American business is small businesses with zero to around 30 employees. These are the backbone of America.
Bash Big Corporate America all you want but do not confuse them with the small business owner who is just trying to make a living and maybe provide a living for someone else.
As far as I am concerned the real culprit is the beauracracy tangling small business in red tape until it strangles while taxing the workers to pay for that tape. If you want to fix America repeal ALL the laws passed since 1965. Like OSHA, EPA...Equal Rights. If you wanted those laws than quit b@tching about paying for them and blaming the small business owner instead of yourself.
Do not bother bitching at me because I am a small business ower. My husband and I GROSS $30K a year combined if we are lucky.
If you run a business and can't afford to pay your employees a living wage then you shouldn't have that business in my opinion. You are basically nothing but a slave driver, keeping people down so that you can earn a good living for yourself.
You are living in a dream world. 80% of small businesses fail. Small business owners generally do not make a "good living" most make the same type of living as the rest of middle class America but they work 80 hours a week and often risk their life savings to do it. In the words of my small business professor "they bought themselves a job." and nothing more.
Many are like my friends and I. We reached middle age and found we are considered "Unemployable" due to our age. Instead of going on welfare we took a risk and started a small business. I see many of these people at the local fleamarket or at a farmers market each week. Something like 80% of American business is small businesses with zero to around 30 employees. These are the backbone of America.
Bash Big Corporate America all you want but do not confuse them with the small business owner who is just trying to make a living and maybe provide a living for someone else.
As far as I am concerned the real culprit is the beauracracy tangling small business in red tape until it strangles while taxing the workers to pay for that tape. If you want to fix America repeal ALL the laws passed since 1965. Like OSHA, EPA...Equal Rights. If you wanted those laws than quit b@tching about paying for them and blaming the small business owner instead of yourself.
Do not bother bitching at me because I am a small business ower. My husband and I GROSS $30K a year combined if we are lucky.
reply posted on 1-9-2008 @ 09:54 PM by crimvelvet
reply to post by crimvelvet
Actually repeal all laws since 1911. That gets rid of the income tax and the federal reserve too.
Actually repeal all laws since 1911. That gets rid of the income tax and the federal reserve too.
reply posted on 1-9-2008 @ 10:40 PM by Swingarm
reply to post by peggy m
Printing more money DEVALUES the international purchasing power of the dollar and messes with the trade standard. Paper money is backed by our precious metals (that is why they stamp "this note is legal tender") otherwise it is just paper. Printing more money will affect international trade and that ALSO raises how much things cost, ie: the cost of living increases accordingly, but only if our imports are greater than our exports.
Your money is backed by nothing but debt. Thats why it's called a federal reserve note. The federal reserve is holding a sh!t load of usa's gold in trust. The federal reserve is a scam along with the IRS as their muscle/thugs. The two should be abolished. The government should issue the currency and spend it into existence interest free on infrastructure projects etc. It has the authority to do this yet for some reason this scam continues. It's this scam that is a the root of the problem. Minimum wage would be healthy if the government followed the above alternative model.
[edit on 1-9-2008 by Swingarm]
reply posted on 10-9-2008 @ 03:26 AM by plumranch
reply to post by ZuzusPetals
if the minimum wage was lowered unemployment would go down.
You are right about that! You must have taken some basic economics? Right? Just kidding.
McCain or any other candidate can't propose lowering the minimum wage because it would be political suicide even though lowering it would mean increased employment and a lot of other wonderful advantages for our youth in terms of experience and education. Again, a course in basic economics is a great eye opener!
reply posted on 10-9-2008 @ 03:39 AM by plumranch
reply to post by ZuzusPetals
I hope the Hockey Mom in Chief doesn't mind dropping me off at the 1928 soccer game in McCain's head.
Hi again Zuz,
That's a good point because McCain is a real old guy with a lot of experience and, of course, has been in a prison camp for many years. He still seems to have the metal, so to speak and doesn't make many mistakes. Experience in government, military and life in general seems to be on his side!
Barac, on the other hand made the "My Muslim Faith" blunder recently. He also did the "Perfume on a pig" blunder which probably lost him a major portion of his female fans. What embarassment will he make in the future?
reply posted on 29-9-2008 @ 07:21 PM by plumranch
reply to post by peggy m
What the average Joe will say is ellect someone like Obama who will tax the X*!! out of the corporations, raise taxes on the executives and everyone else, raise the mimimum wage, etc. Then at the corporations next meeting they decide to move to Mexico to avoid excessive taxes and wages. Why not? In a global economy they need to compete.
So if you want to keep the corporations in America, lower their taxes, don't raise them so at least we keep America's tax base.
Tom and Jerries ice cream company tried lowering their chief exec's salary. Not only did they not find anyone qualified for the job, they were out of business within a year!
The free market system works, you just can't kill the goose to get the golden egg.
What the average Joe will say is ellect someone like Obama who will tax the X*!! out of the corporations, raise taxes on the executives and everyone else, raise the mimimum wage, etc. Then at the corporations next meeting they decide to move to Mexico to avoid excessive taxes and wages. Why not? In a global economy they need to compete.
So if you want to keep the corporations in America, lower their taxes, don't raise them so at least we keep America's tax base.
Tom and Jerries ice cream company tried lowering their chief exec's salary. Not only did they not find anyone qualified for the job, they were out of business within a year!
The free market system works, you just can't kill the goose to get the golden egg.
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