Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

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posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


Hi SS,

Your thread has spawned some great responses.

The thing about your OP that strikes me as odd is your Signature:

"Just be good to yourself and treat others with respect and your soul will be free of any regrets."

It seems to contradict the sentiment of your post. ( The treating others with respect part.)

Intersting thread. Perhaps you just needed to vent. And ATS is a great place to do that.

Karma is a boomerang. Regards....kk

[edit on 24-7-2008 by kinda kurious]




posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Unit541
 


Fisrt let me ask you a few questions. Do you ever eat out at fast food or go to the grocery store to buy food? or how about when you want to buy something you want at a retail outlet. what if everyone went to college and got a better job, Who is gonna work at these places? You?

The fact is we all need people working in the lower class to do the jobs that people with a better education wont do. Or maybe college educated people should do it and demand a much higher wage. Do you see my point? Look at the link in my previous post and read the whole thing. And if you did already then in my opinion your logic is flawed.

Why do you think we all recieved a stimulous check? it was so it would be put back into the economy to help it grow. Pay people more and they will spend more, Bottom line. Does that make sense to you ? Hope so



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Unit541
 

You're right Unit541.
It's all about choice and people need to choose wisely. Believe me if I could go back and change some things in my past then one of them would be to further my education and get a degree in something I would have the passion to do" not just a degree " . There are college grads that go on doing nothing and others who know what they want and go out and get it. Companies don't have you fill out a job application and a resume for nothing. They are looking for highly qualified individuals with proof of credentials. Yes there are companies that are looking for minimum wage workers who only have to work without all those credentials, now choose which company you want to work for.

[edit on 7/24/2008 by Solarskye]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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OMG 1st post here so here goes.....

I look after mental people and only just earn over the UK min wage I would like to get more money but what the heck i do it cos i love it.
The way I see the op is that deep down for some reason he hates the poor! I dont know why but to at the end of the day we are all cogs in the wheel, I mean we all have a jobs to do, just do the job well.
After all even the poor deserve to be happy too



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


All they can earn, give me a break I do not have a college education worked since I was 13, at age 44 I now have a family, two kids in college, a family business. Stop enabling people and let them get their hands dirty, work 60-80 hours a week, read, go back to school do whatever, there are so many jobs out there but everyone wants 8-5 and $20.00 an hour. I'm tired of lazy people who think they are owed everything.

Traveling Man



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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Since it keeps being brought up in relation to why people are stuck at minimum wage, inability to get a higher education **IS NOT** the problem. College educations can be had for free if you work hard. There is no reason to pay astronomical amounts of money for one, unless your using that as an excuse not to do the work to go get one for free.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by kinda kurious
 


I do treat people with respect, but I do have my own opinions. I said I help others all I can and wish I could do more. I guess I'm angry that our government has let us down by not trying their best to change the way they spend money. And the US tax code has sent companies that were once thriving in America across the borders and over seas. I was once homeless and dirt poor and I thank my lucky stars that I got up one day and went to a wood mill and just by luck they needed someone right away and I started that day and worked there until the family business closed down. I know there are different circumstances for everyone so after reading everyone's opinions I'm not as mad anymore.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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AGREED.

As a pimp (which should begin all conservative free market discussions),

I believe in the right to work. Bitch don't want to work? Bitch can die.

The end.

Thank you for having me on your show Larry King.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 




It's all about choice and people need to choose wisely.


And if they don't choose wisely, they should be allowed to die of starvation, exposure, or lack of basic medical care?

Theories about how the world ought to work are all well and good, but I am afraid most market absolutists refuse to acknowledge the inevitable consequences of their pretty theories.

Some people are mentally ill, some have addiction problems, physical or mental disabilities. Some others simply have limited ability or a lack of initiative or intelligence.

Should we thus simply allow them to die in the streets?



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


Life is all about choices and consequences. If you choose to jump off the top off a building the consequence is you die. We cannot create a nanny state where all the streets are padded to protect someone from making the dumb decision of jumping off a building. Government cannot protect people from stupid decisions.

It is true that some people are not capable of making the right decisions. However, while that is unfortunate they are in the minority. The problem with creating measures meant to protect the minority is that in doing so you create a moral hazard for bad decision making by those who are perfectly capable of thinking for themselves. You cannot selectively shield people from stupid decisions. Once you began the process you must protect everyone, and that costs everyone a ton of money in the long run.


[edit on 24-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 06:55 PM
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posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


That's why welfare and other government assistants is available by tax payer contributions. I never once said people should die or be killed because of bad decisions. I'm still in a learning process and will be all my life and if I make mistakes I pay for them but I do try my best to not make them by teaching myself restraint and consistency when it comes to money. I still haven't figured it out or I'd be rich, and believe me I'm not even close to wealthy let alone rich. But I'm giving it my best shot and so far so good. I know in a blink of an eye things can change and I'll join the rest on the bottom. I'll work whenever and where ever I can and not complain to anyone but myself about making more money and how to better myself. I know to many people who think they should get paid a certain amount and will not take a job for any less and they're still unemployed and making it by with drug sales etc... I never want people to die for their mistakes, just learn from them and try harder and think ahead.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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We cannot create a nanny state where all the streets are padded to protect someone from making the dumb decision of jumping off a building.


Pretty analogy, but in reality, there is a vast difference between padding every street to protect the %0.0001 or whatever that jump/fall off buildings, and creating a welfare state that allows for the basic survival of the %5 or whatever that otherwise would be unable to survive in a market economy.

The argument that a welfare state inevitably leads to decline is somewhat weakened by the fact that it is a feature of every single successful economy on the planet, including the US's


The argument is not that the welfare state should assure everyone a Lexus, a McMansion in the suburbs, and the latest MacBook Pro, but that it can prevent the worst consequences of extreme poverty - starvation, homelessness, death by untreated simple illness, child prostitution (a frighteningly common occurrence in places where there is no welfare state), etc...

This can be done, without a general social collapse occurring, and without huge portions of the population abandoning work for a supposedly irresistible "free lunch" - because most people would rather have something tastier than government cheese for lunch.

Most people would rather work and improve their lives, rather than settle for a an existence that only provides basic subsistence.

People want the Lexus, the McMansion, and the MacBook Air, or just a trip to the beach. They're willing to work for the things they want.

This is the way the industrialized world has done things for the last century or so, and far from "destroying civilization", it has led to the greatest level of average prosperity in human history.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


I don't mean anything I have posted to come off as attacking you personally, I did not intend it that way, I generally try to attack bad ideas rather than people.

To expand on my previous post, part of the reason for establishing a minimum wage is to ensure that work is more attractive than the welfare state.

As I said before, most people want to work, because they want to improve their lives.

But if their job can't give them something more than a subsistence-level existence, then there is little incentive to work.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 


Wow thats a very harsh opinion you have there, i can understand your points and some others made in this thread, but how about showing a bit care for people, instead of whining about people whining why not come here with a solution or a suggested solution?

Stop having kids! yeah lets go down some countries routes and put a limit on the ammount of kids you can have?

How about we try to raise the standard of living for all people instead of subsrcibing to the opinion that people with large families and little or no education should just deal with there lot in life and scrape by, there's a lot of money in that country you live in, it astounds me that there are still people living in poverty, perhaps that would be a better thing to be wound up about than the minimum wage?

The land of opportunity? Its a nice tag line but means nothing really, if you ever stopped to look at some peoples lives you would see that some people really didnt stand a chance from the moment that they were born, they had a bad lot and didnt manage to improve it.

You should be looking at why there is a need for a minimum wage and why even on this minimum wage people sruggle, you've got a cheek to moan when your country has spent contless millions probably billions of dollars on wars.

You shoulda done better, wow what a caring world we live in!



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 


Whose fault is it that all someone can earn is minimum wage?

Certainly not the employers.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by xmotex
 


Actually its a perfect analogy. Because you cannot pinpoint what 0.0001% of people your supposed to protect, you have to protect everyone. You have no idea what the percent of people is who can or cannot survive in a "market economy" - what is survival? Who gets to decide?

The argument that the welfare state leads to decline is actually based on truth - we already see the beginnings of it. The people who advocated for the welfare state knew that short-term it would have little impact and would only unravel things in the long run, which we are starting to see now. But of course, those who advocated for it and then lived high off the welfare hog are now long gone
and the new generation of welfare queens will not be able to sustain their lifestyles much longer.

It is simply reality that you cannot have a nanny state shielding people from their own stupidity without creating a moral hazard and an incentive for people to live high on the taxpayer largess. Take the current status of unemployment payments - the data show people will absolutely refuse to get another job and avoid getting hired anywhere until the employment checks end. And why should they not? They are getting money from the government - why should they have to work for it!

Minimum wage hurts everyone. The cost of living goes up to match or exceed the cost of the minimum wage, such that those at minimum wage cannot afford anything extra upon an increase. Minimum wage helps the rich and hurts the poor: the rich can keep their jobs and make the decision to cut lower pay workers off due to the increasing costs thanks to a minimum wage. If no minimum wage were in place, we'd see a higher average and lower percentile wage rate.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by slackerwire
 


Well lets help those kids just out of high school who have no parents and wanna get a education. Lets pay them enough money to live off of working these jobs till they can do better.

Yes not everyone has family



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by Solarskye
 



The minimum wage here in ontario canada is almost 10$/hr, and usually it can be higher.



posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by ioweagle
 


I didn't say stop having kids but when you're making minimum wage" you don't have four kids." And if you already have kids and you have to work minimum wage you don't have anymore until you improve your work status. Sorry to make some people mad by my opinions but I've been down the wrong road and I did it. It wasn't easy either by no means and if I can do it surely others can. Don't do drugs and alcohol and get out there and make something for yourself. I just think there's better ways and I'm glad there's a minimum wage but stop raising it until other things change. If a company has to pay higher wages then the product their making will go up because of it. And believe me prices are sky rocketing everywhere on everything and now minimum wage. Look at the school statistics and tell me the government school systems is teaching our kids the right stuff. The government can't fix it.


[edit on 7/24/2008 by Solarskye]





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