Seeking Shamans, page 2

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:35 AM

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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

That's a very good point and definitely plausible. In my personal beliefs I think that in order to find knowledge you must seek it out. In a spiritual realm where we essentially know nothing I think your intent shapes what you find. Every time one enters an altered state I would call that practice, even if you are just exploring in your own spirit without a destination in mind you can draw from that experience.

I don't have any expectations. I am a much better person since delving into this style of living and I want to meet and have discussions with others who have similar interest. The answers I'm seeking in this thread are purely for curiosity sake, I love conversation and sharing experiences. I'm also an amateur so I'm interested to see what gets put out there in this thread.

JanusFIN

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:47 AM

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Lets do it. With good spirit this talk has given to me. One time.

If there is someone who wants to ask something from old Viking Orakels, I have about 20 min left to help you.

Just give me a question. About people you met, about your work, marriage... Just Anything. I will answer to first who gives the question.

Give me your first name or common nickname like your friends know you, your country, city or village where you are now, and your age. Those Old spirits should be able to find yours with this simple information.

I will tell three answers, to one question.

1. What is the meaning of xxx?
2. What is behind of xxx
3. What is from now on with xxx?

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:53 AM

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reply to post by JanusFIN

Wow that is a very cool way to come into the occult. May I ask what your ex-girlfriend contributed to your journey?

I wonder if you have any predictions as to why you and I have had this encounter?

I am not a lonely person (

Okay I could use a girlfriend), I'm very social actually and have a good friend with whom I can discuss these topics. I am more "scarred" in that I did a lot of damage to myself when I was younger and have had to work very hard to reach the point of contentment I am at now. I have many lessons to learn now that I'm open enough to accept them, this I know. I am also fairly young (early 20s) and do not have much life experience to draw from.

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 10:59 AM

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One question I have for you Janus (on a personal matter). I have recently met a girl who I'm very interested in and she has expressed some interest in myself but I have this unnerving feeling that she would not be loyal, and from some astrological predictions unloyalty sounds like a very viable end to any near coming relationship. Would it be worth it for me to pursue this further? Will I gain anything from this relationship?

My name is Andy, I was born/live in Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada and I'm 21.

Illusionsaregrander

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 11:16 AM

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Originally posted by Scurvy

That's a very good point and definitely plausible. In my personal beliefs I think that in order to find knowledge you must seek it out. In a spiritual realm where we essentially know nothing I think your intent shapes what you find.

What if knowledge isnt what you are really "seeking?"

What if knowledge is the poor cousin of intuitive wisdom, which cannot be possessed, per se, but only flows through you in the moments you are not willfully seeking? Rather than seeking, or willing, to learn or to possess knowledge. What if instead what is required is a surrender to not knowing, non possession, being an open, non grasping conduit to a wisdom not your "own" that you can never possess, but rather be a vessel for for some period of time?

Psychopump

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 11:29 AM

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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
What if knowledge isnt what you are really "seeking?"

What if knowledge is the poor cousin of intuitive wisdom, which cannot be possessed, per se, but only flows through you in the moments you are not willfully seeking? Rather than seeking, or willing, to learn or to possess knowledge. What if instead what is required is a surrender to not knowing, non possession, being an open, non grasping conduit to a wisdom not your "own" that you can never possess, but rather be a vessel for for some period of time?

Wise words if ever there were any. Star for you my friend.
With permission, I may have to quote these words in the future. Are they your own?

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:05 PM

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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Very interesting. I guess it would be similar to an ego killing? Along with realizing our insignificance in the grander spectrum perhaps we should not seek anything but just BE.
I do like that theory. It would make sense when tied in with what Anti-tyrant posted about how reality just IS.

The only thing I dislike is that it makes it seem as if our lives have no purpose except to exist, being a vessel is not an appealing concept to me. Perhaps I just have to come to terms with the fact that we have no purpose.

EDIT: Spelling error.

[edit on 24/7/2008 by Scurvy]

Illusionsaregrander

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:41 PM

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reply to post by Psychopump

Lol, I think those words fall into "the wisdom not my own but not borrowed from another human either category." Have at them. In my mind they are all of ours.

Illusionsaregrander

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 12:51 PM

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reply to post by Scurvy

Maybe another way to think of it is this. That part of you that thinks it is you, is only an illusion. For example, think of those who lose their memories, and lose that older identity, they do not lose the sense of Being. Of awareness. Once that old identity is lost, they do not desire to kill off the new one and become the old thing again. In short order, a new identity is created, and attachment to that new ego begins.

The awareness, without memory, without a storyline, without identity, was the continuous thing. The truer, deeper part of the Self. The "I AM," without some list of qualities and qualifications following that statement.

What if you dont clear the "self" or the ego to make way for some "other." (God or no) Perhaps you dont destroy or rid yourself of it, you set it aside for a moment, it is nothing but a tool in your hand, and you let your Self, (which is also the Self of all that is, not yours and yours as an individual alone) be there fully. Then, you pick up your tool and move on.

Perhaps you are not the insignificant tool, the disposable identity, which can be lost not only to death but also while alive, perhaps you are something more continuous, more wise, more infinite than that, and only your insistence that the tool is "you" creates the misunderstanding, and the fear of being lost, or of not knowing.

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:04 PM

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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Thank you that wording made your point completely clear to me I think.

It's being in sync with the oneness that connects us all with everything else in the universe?

Sorry for my confusion, I'm at work at the moment and I get scatterbrained moving between ATS and doing up paperwork.

Psychopump

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:21 PM

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Originally posted by Scurvy
The only thing I dislike is that it makes it seem as if our lives have no purpose except to exist, being a vessel is not an appealing concept to me. Perhaps I just have to come to terms with the fact that we have no purpose.
[edit on 24/7/2008 by Scurvy]

Let me put your mind at rest:
WE HAVE A PURPOSE!

Many believe that once you let go of ego, that there is little left. It is my contention that this is incorrect. It´s not about US at all. Just as much as that drinking a beer is about the glass.
We are creators, modifiers, transmitters and receivers of ´what it is all about´.

So, what IS it all about?

Ideas, memes, emotions, music, poems, and everything else that we create yet cannot touch. These are why we are here, to give life to these things and to allow them to continue to exist.
We are merely the factories, vessels and transport for these ´lifeforms of a higher plane´ (for want of a better description).

Now you are all going to think I am crazy, but here goes:

I have, in a trance state, conversed and debated with my own and other peoples creations. Seriously. I have received information from art, music and poetry which has NOTHING to do with the literal content. And YES, I am talking about a literal CONVERSATION, just and you and I might have over a cup of biological tea.

*prepares to be ridiculed*

Anti-Tyrant

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:49 PM

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Originally posted by Scurvy
The knowledge that I can do anything is a very scary concept but it does cause me to enter all situations with the best intent.

I often wonder if I was placed in this physical reality for a reason or if that was just my slice of the eternal cake and could have manifested somewhere else.

Sometimes without the best intent, of course - sometimes one cannot help but be defiant of everything he knows purely for the sake of trying to attain a total appreciation of a particular circumstance.

There are a great many unseen aspects of this reality, and we've spent well over ten thousand years coming to terms with those aspects that are most obvious - aspects like dimensions.

I never said i had to accept it as it is, i'm perfectly within my own right to attempt to comprehend the great miracle as i see fit.

Of course, this would make me start blathering on about the multi-dimensional properties of the big-bang and whether or not such a horrendously powerful explosion might warp the 'fabric' of non-space, thereby giving creation unto creation, so to speak.

A frightening possibility i have contemplated in the past is that within every atom, every 'string' is the 'blueprint' of a forgotton universe, and that these 'strings' are infact remnants from before the big bang (but n/m that).

When one applies one's own understanding of reality to what is known to modern man, some rather startling aspects begin to reveal themselves, both terrestrial and extra.

Apply your understanding to anything - be it astro-physics, sociology, history - and you will reap the wheat of knowledge wherever you look.

Of course, when one begins to apply his understanding to his imagination, one's world becomes a world of strange and fantastical possibilities.

There is no greater power in shamanism like there is in Christianity - there is you, the human body, and your mind.

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:50 PM

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reply to post by Psychopump

*Sigh* What a relief!

I can tell there is much insight behind those words. That is the most satisfying explanation as to why we are here I have heard. Big blue star for you.

I do not think that is crazy at all. I have read accounts of some people who have had inanimate objects (Rock, Tree, Wind) as spirit guides. These accounts aren't too common but it would only make sense that if some people can connect with Rock that you could have a conversation with Art. I'm a firm believer that ANYTHING you can conceive is plausible beyond the restraints of our physical dimensions.

Illusionsaregrander

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 01:58 PM

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Originally posted by Scurvy
reply to
It's being in sync with the oneness that connects us all with everything else in the universe?

A subtle difference, perhaps it is not being in sync with, which brings the idea of two (or many) walking together, but rather a recognition, however fleeting, that there is no other. (Nor is there only "one" as we know one, but rather something beyond the dualistic concept of "one and many") You do not have to be in sync, it IS you. (but not as an individual identity.) It is the Self, underlying the "idea of self" or identity. You dont have to seek it, it has always been there. You cant lose it, it is the most constant bit of you, the Awareness of Being itself.

At the Temple of Apollo at Delphi, it was inscribed, "Know Thyself."

What if this doesnt mean to peruse one's history, but rather to examine, to see, if the history of the "self," one's identity, is indeed the same as one's Self? Is there an aspect of Being "you" that is unrelated to, and independent of, any idea or mental concept or construct? Ultimately, this "knowing" cant be intellectual, but rather must be experiential. One must "see" or "know experientially" or "have insight into" what one is, not just think or believe it.

JanusFIN

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Scurvy

Thanks from your question. I will ask from this Ancient "VIkings Orakls"

...Spirits.Souls.Gods.

I use my left hand as yours, I reach your spirit and ask for answers. I have no opportunity to tell you all the words, but I will give you it so as the important words comes up.

You ask about the girl you have met, I ask for answers. Read answers with open mind, there is a great lesson to learn. You hear it in, see it in text for wides, if its for you, you understand the words.

And to the end,

With frienship I want to say from making these literature orakl, Andy, I think I catch it a part from it, message is clear. But be aware, there is lots of dark beginnings in horison now. Storm, Lost in the sea, you afraid, and a cause for you now is eminent. Its more you than you think in this. That is the problem, "you have to forget you, now to see you both."

Orakel gives words of the spirits:

1. Thurisaz ( Downside )
2. Laguz
3. Perth ( Downside )

Answers by oracles:

1. What is happening with she?

"In words: A test, fear, danger, adventure, opportunity, change."

A story: Sign based on lonelyness, fear for getting lost with others, freezing to death, and its daily causes. "Common fear of the Cold."

You: "Be aware for being too much exited, trust to brains now, look to details of this moment. Dont rush, you miss the cause, and you stuck more with own dreams and expactations, Dont look to your points too much now, thats show you the problem. Goals, that stay now in your moment, is with she. Its good to calm down now. Let times do its things. Be focus in this moment. Be realistical, and finally a word from possible danger: "Dont be selfish now, neither of you."

2. What is behind your relationship with she, and in this?

"In words: A birth, and death, vision, dream, spirit, motion, awareness."

A story: "This orakel is open for the sea, water and the sign of change."

You: "Life runs in waves, like ocean, we are ones. When life takes long hype, a long lift, witch has run your life for a time now, and you, middle inside of it, many ways in center. "Timeout, has gone long now..." And great ego and brain together over run your soul for a while, its time to face it. Is it more darken now than then? Many causes for both, not only you, but now there is a swam, nothing more important. "Is she true, and there for me, really?" But angel she is, given chance, there is to you too. Trust to life now, and face it with motions, its ways, and waves, and see: "Take your great chances for real, once again!"

3. Whats going to happen, witch powers are ruling in your common cause, from now on?

In words: "Secrets, darkness, grave. Mystics, occults. Lost, end, crossroad. Adventure, freedom, questions."

The story: Most secret sign. Accept truth of life, we are going to die. How we manage to carry on? And feel it, we understand.

You: "Calm down now, both of you, and listen your thoughts, your self, you both, slow down now, and stop. To this. Before any decide, its time understand this importance, and take balance back, now, listen, but not only brains anymore. Life, motions and souls. Dont wait much, give time a chance, if you will be brave together, secret opportunity there is."

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Sometimes without the best intent, of course - sometimes one cannot help but be defiant of everything he knows purely for the sake of trying to attain a total appreciation of a particular circumstance.

This is true, emotions occasionally take over. I do have a "skill", if you can call it that, of being selfless in the sense that I do everything in my power to make those in my life happy; even at the expense of my own comfort to a degree. The sickening "depression" I had (before I realized I just had to flick that little light switch in the corner of my mind) in the long term ended up giving me this beautiful gift of empathy and compassion.

Apply your understanding to anything - be it astro-physics, sociology, history - and you will reap the wheat of knowledge wherever you look.

Of course, when one begins to apply his understanding to his imagination, one's world becomes a world of strange and fantastical possibilities.

JanusFIN

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by Psychopump

I just want to salute you, and underline one of your great truth. Its important to listen that sound of life, that talk. "We in me, the souls of ours!"

Scurvy

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by JanusFIN

Thank you very much. I don't quite understand all of it right away but I will be analyzing the answers for a while. Greatly appreciated.

carslake

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Scurvy
By 'hole in your mind' are you meaning the creating of a hole in your mind displaced from a natural setting? By entering through a hole I meant the visualization of a hole, everyone will associate the word hole differently and their mental image of it will affect where they "enter".

Yes Scurvy that is right the hole is a metaphor. Depending on the person it's anything you want it to be aslong as the consciousness/awareness is raised. Yes a mental image also a state of mind one leads/brings on the other depending on how you are predisposed. Some are fired by the hallucinatory effect some by the overwhelming emotion of the experience either way your correct how it manifests depends on the person.

Also by lower world I was referring to an axis mundi where there are 4 physical directions as well as up and down.

Sorry Scurvy I've never come across those terms so I can't comment. It can be navigated but in my experience it's not by choosing a direction.

Thanks for posting, I wasn't sure if anyone would actually reply to this topic
The empowerment when you realize you have accomplished something with sheer mindpower is definitely a phenomal feeling. It is totally a unifying experience between body and mind.

Why not Scurvy, maybe empowerment isn't the right word. If you can be aware of the force behind existence and then raise yourself up the connnection is made and it engulfs you. Many would describe it differently but as we are different so is the experience, knowing the lore and losing your fear are very important. Am I a Shaman? No I wouldn't say so but caring for the social and emotional and spiritual welfare of your 'group' through the insight afforded by the experience is tantamount to being a Shaman, but whats in a name.

carslake

posted on Jul, 24 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I would love to find a "true" shaman someday. That would be an adventure of a lifetime. Sadly though, in this day and age I am having my doubts as to whether or not it would even be possible to find one.

Have you tried looking for one Karl have you actually given it much thought.

I'd like you to ask yourself two questions.

Do you know who you are Karl?

And what do you want?

Here let me introduce you to some 'Shamans' for the want of a better word illusionsaregrander, anti-tyrant, JanusFin, Scurvy etc.... Can you see their insight. All have different paths with the same destination.

[edit on 24/7/08 by carslake]