Who made eating pork and swine flesh lawful for Christians?

reply to post by Entreri


Entreri,

so you have sold your soul to the devil so to speak?

then eat as much as you want and enjoy yourself as much as you can, the place of stay you've bought for yourself will have nothing of good.

though you can still change your mind and repent, it's possible while you still have a breath between your teeth.

Here's the way I hear the argument.

Christians (since Paul write the epistles) feel they dont have to obey any laws anymore.

Jesus didnt say that but Paul did.

Jesus said in Matthew everyone is responsible for their behavior.

The way I hear nutrition is you are what you eat.

I dont eat pork because I dont wanna be like a pig fat and lazy and stupid.



sarc

reply to post by mystiq


mystiq,

i didn't read that thread you mentioned. but if it was as you say, then i agree with you, that was hostile indeed, killing for eating pork.

this thread isn't like that. it's just a reminder for people who are confused about the food still prohibited under God's Law.

God will guide those who wills to be guided.

I eat meat, and no one is going to tell me any different.

Am I supposed to look in the Bible to see what I should eat and drink, what I should wear, and how I should think?

I can do all that quite nicely on my ow, thank you.

reply to post by Thekherham


exactly right.

God didnt put us here to TELL US WHAT TO DO. That is why we have free will.
a lot of people forget about that.


God put us here and gave us 10 commandments, and last time i checked, those commandments never mentioned a damn thing about pork.

If pork is forbidden, then why would God make it SO good (that is not a sarcastic question....pork is indeed, unbelievably delicious)

I think its really important to distinguish what makes Christians different in their faith from Jews and muslims, who also associate with these religions, though they believe Jesus was a holy profit, but not the last word, as they feel Mohammed is. Christianity is a separate faith, that while evolved from the Jewish one, is distinctly its own non-the-less.
As to whom said it was okay to eat pork, lets look at this:

Acts 10:9-16 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

Thus it was the Lord, the one who showed this to Peter, that made it okay. This is how Christians understand this issue.


Commander X has warned that among other things that nwo is attempting to bring in, is an enshrined new type of Christian religion (but one more closely resembling Torah, or Sharia Law and therefore more acceptable to other peoples) that would be the law of the land, and the courts. This "new" religion would take the Old Testament, barbaric, thousands of year old practices, such as stoning or hanging adulterers and gays, and probably slamming women back to the dark ages. To me, this makes this thread suspect. Yes, they want to make us all massively controlled, serfs in a brutal patriarchal system where all human rights are trampled, including the separation of state and religion and the right to chose ones own belief system, while they, sophisticated and cosmopolitan, above the law, terrafarm mars, and enjoy advanced culture, science and physics. Lovely huh.



[edit on 28-7-2008 by mystiq]

Originally posted by sarcastic

Here's the way I hear the argument.

Christians (since Paul write the epistles) feel they dont have to obey any laws anymore.

---that's true. he nullified the Laws and the Prophets to boost his followings.

Jesus didn't say that but Paul did.

--- so the Christians are not following the teachings of Jesus but rather the teachings of Paul, they should just stop pretending to be Christians and call themselves Paulians instead, that would be more truthful.

Jesus said in Matthew everyone is responsible for their behavior.

--- so true, he never taught that someone else should die for your sins.

The way I hear nutrition is you are what you eat.

---God made eating swine flesh unlawful because they are unclean animals, They were created as scavengers; as a rule they are meat-eating animals that clean up anything that is left dead in the fields, etc. If any animal should die in the field and lie in the sun until it is broken open and the maggots and putrefaction have set in, the swine or other scavengers will come and eat up the filth and putrid matter. Scavengers were never meant for human consumption.


I dont eat pork because I dont wanna be like a pig fat and lazy and stupid.

--- good for you!

reply to post by mystiq


mystiq,

the passage you just quoted was the vision of Peter which God showed him before he met a group of Gentiles. God Himself made the explanation obvious, the dream is referring to people not food. Now, if after the vision, a person come to him bringing a roasted pig, then the interpretation of his dream is about food.

are you saying that Christians gave up the teachings of Moses and the Prophets, and Jesus whom they profess to be followers of, in favor of the this interpretation of Peter's dream?

when God makes a commandment to the people, it's always confirmed in other passages and not just one isolated instance. the prohibition of swine flesh is mentioned five times or so and in different parts of the Scriptures, wouldn't He do the same when He repeals a Law?

can you quote at least five direct passages expressly making swine flesh lawful to eat?

reply to post by Thekherham


Thekherham,

Only if you believe in God and believe in the Last day.

Your free will of course gives you the right to choose which path to take.

If you fear God you will look at the Holy Scriptures for wisdom and guidance. Doesn't a student study his lessons hard to please his teacher and to pass the grade? Well, this world is the school, we're here to learn, if we make the grade we get to return to our Home, if not, we get to repeat until we make the grade, but when the limit is reached and the term appointed for us is finished, we'll be cast out with the Losers.

I'm sorry, you're not taking away my bacon!!

MMMHMMM Bacon!

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by Thekherham

 

Thekherham,

Only if you believe in God and believe in the Last day.

Your free will of course gives you the right to choose which path to take.

If you fear God you will look at the Holy Scriptures for wisdom and guidance. Doesn't a student study his lessons hard to please his teacher and to pass the grade? Well, this world is the school, we're here to learn, if we make the grade we get to return to our Home, if not, we get to repeat until we make the grade, but when the limit is reached and the term appointed for us is finished, we'll be cast out with the Losers.

Queenofangels,

This world is NOT the school per se..particularly concerning spiritual things.

This world is a corrupt evil and seducing deceiver for those unperceptable in spiritual things. And one must also be perceptive as to what spirit one is communing.

For we are in this world but not of this world. We are not to take on the trappings of this world..particularly in the spirit of this world ..but in the Spirit of our Lord.

No man judges me in meat, drink, or respect of an holy day.

I observe no holiday...including birthdays...for birthdays are self glorification...and all glory and praise are to Him... and not me or others.
I can find no instruction for either a Hebrew or a Christian to celebrate a birthday..nor glorify ones self in this type of conduct.
I do, however, find this tradition of birthdays among the Heathen/Pagan historys. Hence I also do not celebrate the so called christmas.

All foods created by God are good to eat. Mind you..here certain preparations need be properly made for certain foods but this is just common sense. One of my favorite foods is fish...seafoods...as I live close to the sea this would be natural. Once again here proper preparation is just good sense.

I will drink alcohol..but I understand by His Word that one is not to sit long at the wine so to speak. I have no use for drunkards. I am also aware that in some places in this world one would be better off drinking the wine or alcohol than the water. Nonetheless..it is improper to be drunken. In this His Word is quite correct. Alcohol will never be a career for me. Other than the occasional glass of wine...I mostly drink hard liquior or hard alcohol when I feel ill and need the rest. I think the old ones were correct here.
Nonetheless ..a career in drinking is not for me. I have much better things to do with my time and moneys than spend huge amounts on drink.

As to eating pork..or pig..I will eat this food...but in moderation as is also so with other red meats and even fish/seafoods. Prudence in all things.

This is one of the significant changes in the Olde and New Testaments. The change in the Dietary Laws as a result of the death of the Testator.

If one chooses not to eat pork or pig..that is up to them. I have no problem, judgement, or issue with this. It is the same with vegetarians..who choose to eat no meat. That is their buisness..not mine.

I will not suffer hell and damnation for this...nor concern myself with it. For I know by the Word..that "ALL" of us desereve hell and damnation...naturally ..by our very natures...from the very moment of our birth...even before we are born.....as is in the story of Jacob and Esau. The Lord I know would be perfectly rightious and just in sending me to hell and damnation. He chooses to save His people for His purposes...not our purposes. He saves His people not on what they do or eat..but for His reasons...or conversely does not save them for His reasons.

For we are saved by Grace...His Grace..and that not of ourselves.
Not of works...lest any of us should boast.

Thanks to all for thier posts,
Orangetom

The simplest answer to your question will anger most so called Christians but oh well here goes...

NO ONE WITH AUTHORITY CHANGED THE HEALTH FOOD LAWS!

By this I mean Constantine and the Catholic Church did it but did not have the Authority to change it. Just as the Rabbi's feel they can change Torah anytime they want, so do the so called church leaders today.

Let me be clear on one more thing while talking so as to not give anyone the wrong idea. The Health Laws are not SINS! That is to say they do not send you to hell for eating the forbidden foods. Those foods will just make you sick, so the Health Laws are exactly that, HEALTH. You see GOD made our bodies and he knows how to keep them supplied with energy and nutrients.

Ask any vet if pigs sweat, and what happenes to that sweat that the pig don't sweat. Ask him what sweating does for most animals and why its bad for the pig to be eaten. The laws were pretty simple actually, if it eats meat or dead flesh YOU DON'T EAT IT! If it eats grasses and grains and is an herbivore it is good for food.

Man likes to change GOD's WORD a lot and then claim some authority or reason for it, like parenthesized things in the Bible. Which means it was not in the Original Texts but added. The Word of GOD is easy to follow it only has two requirements...

1. Believe in Jesus (Yashua) and keep GOD's Commandments. Ex 20

reply to post by theindependentjournal


theindependentjournal,

thanks for the great contribution to the topic.

i hope this will open the eyes of the Christians who profess to follow Jesus and yet put his true teachings at the backseat when given a more palatable interpretation.

God's Laws cannot be changed/broken without the gravest sin according to Jesus. God didn't give the law for love of the Law, but for mankind to follow, for his own good.

you have clearly pointed out the wisdom for not eating swine flesh, this wisdom we have just learned now through advancing technology, but this wisdom is inherent from the giving of this commandment. as you very correctly said, God created us and knows what is good for us, being the Designer, He knows what will harm us and warned us by means of the Laws and the Prophets.

it's true that eating pork is not a mortal sin that will merit the punishment of hell, but a sin nonetheless in the form of disobedience.

lastly, if the Children of Israel will only believe and follow Jesus' example and observe God's Law, then God, Our Most Merciful Creator will forgive them and fulfill His promise to save them.

thanks for the input, indy.



Peace!

reply to post by orangetom1999


orangetom,

sorry we didn't click on the metaphor lol.

i liked some of your views on things, especially the "all things in moderation", for some it's hard to follow but it's good to know some people can exercise discipline in themselves to please God, their Creator.

it's true that we all have fallen short of the Glory of God, and it's only through God's mercy that we will be saved. but this faith in God must be balanced by actions, since faith without action is dead. How did God asked our father Abraham to show his faith but through his actions?

no man in all righteousness can boast that he is saved through his actions, even the Holy Prophets admit that they will not enter Paradise unless it be that God have mercy on them. for all the good things that God has given us, we can spend our whole life serving Him and praising Him and it will not be enough. how much more if instead of praising God we keep sinning against him and provoking His anger through our disobedience? surely those who keep from evil and those who are evil-doers are not equal in the sight of God?


016.061 If Allah were to take mankind to task for their wrong-doing, he would not leave hereon a living creature, but He reprieveth them to an appointed term, and when their term cometh they cannot put (it) off an hour nor (yet) advance (it).

035.045 If Allah took mankind to task by that which they deserve, He would not leave a living creature on the surface of the earth; but He reprieveth them unto an appointed term, and when their term cometh - then verily (they will know that) Allah is ever Seer of His slaves.

I have nothing against you if you fear God and hope to meet Him in the Last Day, we are all journeying as pilgrims towards the same destination, we should help each other and remind each other that it is more fitting to serve God, who has given us all, than to serve this world.

Peace!

[edit on 29-7-2008 by queenofangels_17]

Whats funny to me is that Christians believe its their thoughts that get them to heaven or not.

They can do whatever they want and it doesnt count. Thats why we have wars and pollution and crime and everything because Christians say, all you have to do is believe.

Thats stupid.


sarc

Originally posted by Astyanax

But you certainly are focused.

Yes, so it seems. You should try it some time.

Oh I have my focus, it's just in a different direction than yours. Still, always nice to disagree so agreeably.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love bacon
I love ham
Love pork tenderloin
Even Spam

I particularly enjoy Spam, Spam, baked beans and Spam.

Form a strictly scriptural point of view, nothing you eat will ‘defile’ you spiritually. If you want to eat a bunch of crap go ahead. Just don’t expect God to remove the consequences of your poor decision making, any more than He would keep you from getting lung cancer if you smoke. Thousands of people a year die from eating shellfish. Pork is known to cause trichinosis, etc. Eat what you want with a clear conscience spiritually, just don’t expect God to bail you out physically.

This could be said of the sabbath or circumcision in the context of this debate as well. However if you read and understand the bible you would know, after Christ came to the earth the form of worship God required got easier.

The Mosiac law ended, however it still allows us to understand God's thinking on matters.

Isn't lamb a healthier meat than pork? I mean generally.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Blue_Jay33]

the cloven hooves
does that include the Turkey and chicken?
or are they magical too

then again how can eating animals that cant even walk to the slaughter house they are so stricken with disease count as clean let alone healthy

Originally posted by sarcastic

Whats funny to me is that Christians believe its their thoughts that get them to heaven or not.

They can do whatever they want and it doesnt count. Thats why we have wars and pollution and crime and everything because Christians say, all you have to do is believe.

Thats stupid.


sarc

sarcastic,
Tell me you went to public school and never outgrew the indoctrination??

Christians dont get into heaven by thier thoughts...that is pagan doctrine. Christians get into heaven by blood..and not their own blood or any other but by the blood of Jesus the Christ for Remission of sins.

Doing whatever you want and it doesnt count is also pagan doctrine...you know ..put your money in the box..say so many prayers...etc etc..and you can begin over again..just like hitting reset on the video game. This too is paganism. It is paganism...counterfitting for Christianity. It is the Pagan gods sneaking in unawaress to most..even to you. It is counterfit doctrine.

Do you know the name of the counterfitter ...by name??

As to war pollution and crime...that too is textbook public indoctrination..translate that as a television education. You do realize that most of the world is not Christian..yes??
That of course explains all the problems being due to Christians?? Correct???

Have you checked out how much pollution is going on in China, How about India. I was not aware that crime is due exclusively to the Christians. Can you give me a source for this position??

However..dont become depressed...most Christians are not able to tell the difference..they too have been raised on a diet of television and emotions. It is very easy to get over on alot of them...or at least intimidate them to silence.

Thanks,
Orangetom


[edit on 3-8-2008 by orangetom1999]