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Obama and the Constitution

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by redled
So the good samaritan does not figure. Not very Christian. I've been mis-sold methinks.





if ya wanna bring christianity into this, then study your bible first. jesus never condoned stealing from other ppl to pass out freely to others. jesus encouraged charity, yes. but it is hardly charity when it is being taken from someone else's pocket.

remember the angry jesus in the temple? the one that drove out the theives who were stealing from others under the name of religion. he drove them out along w/ their henchmen. he was pretty darn pissed that they were "tricking" others out of their hard earned money in the name of God.

now, what was that about being christian?
again, get a clue


[edit on 22-7-2008 by justamomma]


And again, learn some respect. 'Pay your taxes to the Romans......' oh, and the temple is a different reason to healthcare or education. Selling in the name of God is different to healing someone. Don't recall, but didn't Jesus take a personal interest in helathcare himself? Lazurus?




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by redled
It's so funny how you go on about taxes and how that war in Iraq is what has cost you so dear recently, and honestly what have you won for anyone? Certainly you haven't helped many Iraqis health. Yeah, you got rid of Saddam..... learn some respect.


You don’t seem to understand. You are making a fallacious assumption that those of us that support the Constitution support George Bush. The truth is that most of us that hold the Constitution dear, and understand it, don’t support the War in Iraq - at least from a Constitutional standpoint.

You don’t understand that we want the Government to obey the Constitution and are offended when anyone violates it - be it Bush or Obmama. You don’t comprehend that the Constitution is a control on our Government - not a license for it. We want it to stay that way.

Unfortunately, those of us that still believe in it and understand what it means are quickly becoming a minority. So don’t assume that because our Government does something that it is Constitutional. And further don’t assume that because we support the Constitution, we support the Government’s actions. They often are two very separate things.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by passenger

Originally posted by redled
It's so funny how you go on about taxes and how that war in Iraq is what has cost you so dear recently, and honestly what have you won for anyone? Certainly you haven't helped many Iraqis health. Yeah, you got rid of Saddam..... learn some respect.


You don’t seem to understand. You are making a fallacious assumption that those of us that support the Constitution support George Bush. The truth is that most of us that hold the Constitution dear, and understand it, don’t support the War in Iraq - at least from a Constitutional standpoint.

You don’t understand that we want the Government to obey the Constitution and are offended when anyone violates it - be it Bush or Obmama. You don’t comprehend that the Constitution is a control on our Government - not a license for it. We want it to stay that way.

Unfortunately, those of us that still believe in it and understand what it means are quickly becoming a minority. So don’t assume that because our Government does something that it is Constitutional. And further don’t assume that because we support the Constitution, we support the Government’s actions. They often are two very separate things.


Then I warn you that if you do not upgrade your constitution, and I know that is difficult, then as time goes by it will become more and more restrictive to the increasing possibilities that you have ahead of you. And as you say as a minority, you will shrink unless it gains relevance. I just find it strange that a 'Christian' constitution seems to block so much of the best Christian thought.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by redled
So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?


sorry OP if i am interjecting where you would rather me not, but this is one of those asinine statements that really gets under my skin.

it isn't that some of us don't want others to have it, it is that we don't want to have to pay out of our pockets for others to have it. if i am taking care of the expenses for me and my kids, you certainly can take care of your own expenses.

these "guilt trips" some of you try to put the rest of us on are nothing more than socialist propaganda and make you come across as lazy free loaders.

first off, the children should be home w/ their momma's. most childcare facilities' expenses suck whatever she would be making anyway... so stay home and raise your babies. problem solved. next.........

healthcare is a joke. health insurance and programs such as medicaid coupled w/ the fact that most americans are babies and run to their doctors if they cut their finger and are having a bad day are the reasons that doctors have to hike up the costs of their services. cut out the unnecessary bs visits, get a job and start paying for the services of a doctor only in dire emergencies and then we will all be better able to afford to pay for the care we NEED.

and quit dictating what private business owners should have to pay for someone from day one. this attitude of i am worthy of YOUR $$ w/out proving myself first is another spoiled "hand me everything" attitude that has gotten us in the mess we are in today.

however, bc this is the prevailing attitude, you should be happy to know that you and others will get what you want for the time being. you will be handed everything by your country (aka the federal government, the entity to which you are slaves), but just mark these words down..... the piper will come a calling one day for his collection from the subjects he has supported and the costs of the free ride so many expect will be higher than you will ever think to imagine.

btw..... technically you are not even gonna be handed everything you think you need by the gov't.....first they will take it from my and others like me who work their arses off pockets, then they will pocket a great majority of that, then they will dole it out on their wars against humanities (whether they claim the war is on drugs or terrorists), then they will take a few photo ops to respresent us helping other countries, then whatever few "pennies" are left will go to the lazy arses of this country.

get a clue



I am sorry you see it that way. My mom has her own house and takes care of her son who has epilepsy. She is 86 and if it wasn't for the so called entitlement programs both would be dead, having starved to death. I have worked for 20 years and I don't mind paying taxes for those 20 years since it obvious does benefit my family and strangers in the same boat. What about your mom? Do you care enough to pay for her entitlements in her golden years?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by redled
People 'should' is a poor way to get out of that. Children are the victims of when parents don't.


so what, my kids have to sacrifice more of their time away from me so i can pick up the slack for parents who weren't educated on the importance of personal responsibility and how vital that is to a FREE society? fine, i'll give you this. send me you kids and i'll take care of their needs and raise them as my own, YOU, however deserve nothing from anyone until you get a clue.




Having a fit and skilled workforce is economically very useful, no matter how fascist your standpoint.


definition of fascism:

1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


Why are you so concerned with Christianity? Personally, I hate religion, but I certainly don't worship the government like you evidently do.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by ohioriver

I am sorry you see it that way. My mom has her own house and takes care of her son who has epilepsy. She is 86 and if it wasn't for the so called entitlement programs both would be dead, having starved to death. I have worked for 20 years and I don't mind paying taxes for those 20 years since it obvious does benefit my family and strangers in the same boat. What about your mom? Do you care enough to pay for her entitlements in her golden years?


hey, i am a single mom w/ two babies and i make it just fine not using any of the programs so you are talking to the wrong person. i feel for the situation your mom was in, but life is tough. you are given what you are and you should deal with it. why wouldn't your other family members help her? i know mine would and have. i don't need to go to my government bc IF something came up, i have ppl in my life that love and support me and will help me just as i do and would them.


and the question is do YOU care enough to care for your mom in her golden years. my sisters and i have already discussed and decided that WE will take care of them when they need it. we won't throw them into some governmentally funded "camp" where the nurses can't take care of them w/ the love that we can. YES, I CARE FOR THOSE IN MY LIFE and they care for me. that is why we don't go to the gov't for help.. we turn to each other.

the only reason why some can't take care of their family (be it children, parents, etc) is bc they don't want to. they don't want to make the sacrifices to care for those they supposedly love. either that or they are so uneducated that they honestly don't see that if they were allowed to keep their own earnings, they COULD take care of their loved ones.

see, that is what i am banging my head on the wall about. you say you need the gov't programs and that is why you pay taxes. how does this make sense? if you could keep what is yours, you wouldn't need your daddy gov't. they manipulate your situations to make you all think you need them while they rape us all. how do you not see that?



edited to say : not using any programs (in first paragraph)





[edit on 22-7-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


oh jesus, where the hell are you now? listen dude, i am not christian. you brought it up. but it is sad that i know more about it than you since you obviously believe the christian way. jesus didn't take from others to help lazerus. read your bible. jesus rose lazerus himself. how is this even comparable to the joke we call healthcare in america. i am all for doing it jesus' way in this case. let me take care of those around me that i love w/what is mine. i am confused why you are bringing up a book that you obviously know little about



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by redled
 


Why are you so concerned with Christianity? Personally, I hate religion, but I certainly don't worship the government like you evidently do.


"God bless America." Your Nation's identity is wrapped up in it, yet your actions through your constitution differ...... I notice this.
As for me worshipping the government, I most certainly do not worship this government.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by redled
 


It isn't the obligation of people to help others. It is nothing more than people imposing their BS morals on other peoples wallets.


This is disgusting. You don't have to be a christian to realize that.

When the constitution was written, universal healthcare didn't exist anywhere. Other countries have moved forward since then, why shouldn't America?

You honestly beleive we should stunt our growth as a nation because of what our "infallible" forefathers wrote? Stagnation is the key to destruction. Have you taken a world history class? Or did you opt for American history every time? If they're not in the US, screw them, right?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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I've heard many stories about this "constitution" and it's alleged existance. But does anyone have any proof it's real? No digital images please, or I'll yell "CGI"!


Seriously, the constitution is one of the biggest problems for our elite these days. Those who know the "big picture" (or even a tiny part of it), understand why.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Why should a business owner be forced to pay employees for their PERSONAL choices?

So they can control their employees. That is the whole idea of "health insurance" supplied by employers.

Company: "We're such loving employers, we're going to provide you with health insurance!"

Sheeple: "Yaaaayyy!"

(sometime in the near future)

Company: "Oh, hang on, you're starting to cost us too much. So you're not allowed to do this, or eat that, or drink this, or do that. And by the way, lose weight."

Pretty simple, isn't it...



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd
It isn't the obligation of people to help others. It is nothing more than people imposing their BS morals on other peoples wallets.


This is disgusting. You don't have to be a christian to realize that.

When the constitution was written, universal healthcare didn't exist anywhere. Other countries have moved forward since then, why shouldn't America?

You honestly beleive we should stunt our growth as a nation because of what our "infallible" forefathers wrote? Stagnation is the key to destruction. Have you taken a world history class? Or did you opt for American history every time? If they're not in the US, screw them, right?



actually, i am not sure whose history it was that was imposed on us as children. it certainly wasn't american history.

am i the only one who upon graduating thought we were considered a pure democracy, the civil war was fought to free the slaves, and that taxes were legal and in accordance w/ the principles upon which this country was founded on? yeah, i didn't think so and i even went to a private school. took american government in college even. then i opted to study the history of this country on my own only to find that i was fed some truth SOAKED in lies that were served on a plate of "purpose" (the purpose being that of those who seek to control us).

we were being fed socialism by the spoonful and the proof that they were successful w/ their indoctrination of lies is in this thread.

to say that anyone is obligated to do anything is the biggest BS i have ever heard. i spit on your demands on my life and on the demands you make on my childrens lives.

where do you draw the lines for these obligations that you want imposed on others, bc at some point these obligations will be so binding that i venture to guess that even you will start feeling the pressure of losing your individuality.

let's think....... curfews? will that be ok? being chipped? is that an obligation that will be okay? what about when those making up the obligations we should have say that you are too much of an obligation altogether bc of your race or your belief and so you need to be put into a guarded place so as not to upset anyone else?

charity is not obligation and obligations are not charities. there is no mark on your moral chalkboard for the money they are taking from your pocket... it's just making their wallets get fatter.

the consitution in its pure form was meant to guard from this bc this is the kind of oppression they were fighting against.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
to say that anyone is obligated to do anything is the biggest BS i have ever heard. i spit on your demands on my life and on the demands you make on my childrens lives....where do you draw the lines for these obligations that you want imposed on others, …the consitution in its pure form was meant to guard from this bc this is the kind of oppression they were fighting against.


Well, that’s just it. We’re at a cross-roads here between those that want to stand - or fall - by themselves and those that want others to support them. In that sense, it goes beyond the Constitution itself; it is a fight between those that want to live - and die - as free individuals and those that want to be part of a collective whole. Unfortunately, we are losing the battle. Of course, those that want more Government control are backed by the Leviathan they support. The Leviathan only grows stronger with each individual it puts to it’s teat. They gain succor while we grow weaker. That makes it all the harder to fight against.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by drwizardphd
 


How about you answer a single question:

I can afford health insurance for myself, my wife, and my infant son. Why should I be forced to subsidize other peoples healthcare?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:13 PM
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reply to post by NuclearPaul
 


No one is forced to participate in their employers health care program.

If they dont like the conditions, they are free to:

Find their own coverage, or

Find a new employer.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:06 AM
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You know what slackerwire... You know why Obama is so popular?

Because it seems that he really believes that the majority of americans are good honest people. Whether or not he really believes this is true can be argued to death...

But after reading your post it seems that you think every American is rotten at the core, every American wants to abuse the system and non of this is of your concern.

You may not imagine it or care, but I have had my mother, father and grandmother all fall critically ill in the past two years. I have not been able to work since because I have to clean crap out of butts, give drugs every three hours, feed my dad+granny with a turkey baster because they are to weak to chew...

My entire close family is dying or dead,,, ALL of the property three generations have worked for are gone. Each family member had FULL insurance... With your attitude the next step would be to work me for eighty years, kill me, imprison me or sell my organs
,,provided I now carry two of my lifetimes worth of debt.

My only crime and my families only crime was to not make enough money and or not commiting suicide upon diagnosis and/or bankruptcy.

I am a fifth generation American and this is how it is, I am now just a man with debt and no future -I did nothing but man up, drop my life to look after my loved ones!

Now my children will pay-

You know what though???
I never, not once took a penny from fed or state - you know why?

Because I could manage it and figured someone else might not be as strong.

Further more I have met many in my situation who do the same. We sit in the endless waiting room sessions and deal with it.

Well I hope for our futures sake that we can change this situation. But I hope more then anything that people who see America like you learn that just because it doesn't impact you does not mean that it isn't happening!

I hope your child never has to lose it all to care for you, just because he/she loves you...



[edit on 23-7-2008 by mental modulator]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
You know what slackerwire... You know why Obama is so popular?

Because it seems that he really believes that the majority of americans are good honest people. Whether or not he really believes this is true can be argued to death...

But after reading your post it seems that you think every American is rotten at the core, every American wants to abuse the system and non of this is of your concern.

You may not imagine it or care, but I have had my mother, father and grandmother all fall critically ill in the past two years. I have not been able to work since because I have to clean crap out of butts, give drugs every three hours, feed my dad+granny with a turkey baster because they are to weak to chew...

My entire close family is dying or dead,,, ALL of the property three generations have worked for are gone. Each family member had FULL insurance... With your attitude the next step would be to work me for eighty years, kill me, imprison me or sell my organs
,,provided I now carry two of my lifetimes worth of debt.

My only crime and my families only crime was to not make enough money and or not commiting suicide upon diagnosis and/or bankruptcy.

I am a fifth generation American and this is how it is, I am now just a man with debt and no future -I did nothing but man up, drop my life to look after my loved ones!

Now my children will pay-

You know what though???
I never, not once took a penny from fed or state - you know why?

Because I could manage it and figured someone else might not be as strong.

Further more I have met many in my situation who do the same. We sit in the endless waiting room sessions and deal with it.

Well I hope for our futures sake that we can change this situation. But I hope more then anything that people who see America like you learn that just because it doesn't impact you does not mean that it isn't happening!

I hope your child never has to lose it all to care for you, just because he/she loves you...



[edit on 23-7-2008 by mental modulator]


Your just lazy and it ain't my problem. Go cry to someone who cares you liberal terrorist lover!



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by NuclearPaul
 


No one is forced to participate in their employers health care program.

If they dont like the conditions, they are free to:

Find their own coverage, or

Find a new employer.


I think they need to get another job or two.



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:22 AM
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Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by redled
 


It isn't the obligation of people to help others. It is nothing more than people imposing their BS morals on other peoples wallets.


This is disgusting. You don't have to be a christian to realize that.

When the constitution was written, universal healthcare didn't exist anywhere. Other countries have moved forward since then, why shouldn't America?

You honestly beleive we should stunt our growth as a nation because of what our "infallible" forefathers wrote? Stagnation is the key to destruction. Have you taken a world history class? Or did you opt for American history every time? If they're not in the US, screw them, right?



Liberal BS if you can't pay you should go to jail or shoot yourself!



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 04:23 AM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by drwizardphd
 


How about you answer a single question:

I can afford health insurance for myself, my wife, and my infant son. Why should I be forced to subsidize other peoples healthcare?


You should not have to... We should just send um all to meixco already!





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