Obama and the Constitution

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posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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In another thread, I addressed the unconstitutionality of Obama and his proposed policies. Some people took issue with the fact I believe Obama wouldn't know the Constitution if it walked up and kicked him right in the groin.

In the spirit of not derailing a thread on a different topic, I started this one to take on all comers who think Obama is a Constitutional scholar.

I will begin by addressing Observer and his rebuttal to my comment found here




I gather you are "strict constructionist"?


Absolutely. If the founders meant for the Constitution to be a "living, breathing document" (as in its interpretations change with the times), there wouldn't have been a need to include an amendment process.




Paid-leave systems. These are an extension of the Family Medical Leave Act and while I can see how this could be abused it could also be a blessing.


Why should a business owner be forced to pay employees for their PERSONAL choices? Nothing in the Constitution even comes close to granting government the power to enforce this.




Child care- again this is not boogy man Obama, this has been out there a long time. He just wants to make it better. Par tof the reason the gov had to step in on this is due to unchecked corporations driving salaries so low that both parents (if there are two) must work to make ends meet. Many families work low wage jobs that make affording child care difficult to say the least, so rather than force these families to choose living under a bridge, the gov steps in to help them offset the cost child care so they can afford to live in a crappy apartment


Article 1 Section 8 details each and every expenditure the government may make with OUR money. Sadly for you and people who share your thinking, childcare isn't anywhere to be found. If times are so tough, perhaps people should wait to have children until they can afford to properly care for said child. Thats called personal responsibility.




Child health insurance, I see no reason to let poor children suffer because our health care system is broken.


I see no reason to force taxpayers to subsidize other peoples children. Same goes with the miserable failure known as the public education system.

I can afford to provide for my son, including health insurance. Why should I be forced to pay for others who aren't as responsible?




As for the minimum-wage issue... I find it difficult to even argue. How on earth can anyone be against the working poor being advocated for? I mean OMG, you mean Obama wants the poor to actually be able to LIVE! How DARE he! Surely we do not want burger flippers to have the chance to eat or save. They are to serve me food and live, themselves, only hand to mouth.


You're kidding right? Minimum wage isn't, nor was it ever meant to be a "living wage". Get ready for this, and it may come as a surprise, but minimum wage is gasp! an ENTRY LEVEL Wage!!!!! What motivation is there for people to better themselves and actually get marketable skills if they can flip burgers and make 15 bucks per hour?

Ever ask yourself why you see so many teenagers, illegal immigrants, and ex-cons working minimum wage jobs? It's because they dont have any other marketable job skills.




World poverty reduction- no, not covered by the Constitution. However, since most of the terrorists that want us dead are from poverty stricken backwaters it seems to make sense to try to help those areas become prosperous thus reducing the venom and anger in those regions held against the West, since one of the main reasons, ultimately, that youth in these poors regions hate us is due to our affluence.


Ah so we should completely disregard the Constitution and basically bribe our way out of trouble? Why not give everyone in prison for robbery 10 million dollars just so they won't do it again?

You said it yourself, it's not covered by the Constitution. Each and every form of foreign aid (aka international welfare) is unconstitutional. Overlooking the Constitution in hopes of perceived safety? You really want to continue down that path?




since the internet was invented with unconstitutionally invested tax dollars


Really? DARPA wasn't providing for the common defense when they invented this series of tubes?

It wasn't promoting the progress of science as authorized in A1S8?

You sure?




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?

Better say something about your constitution, it didn't do much about the vote counting in 2000, so that's ok, but helping others is not. Your Constitution is sold abroad as a Christian Constitution. Your attitudes make me wonder.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?


It has nothing to with being nice. It has to do with providing for your own first.

Some people, many people, making having babies and child support a business. They make sure to have at least one kid every three years to get more welfare and they do not work.

You pay for their laziness.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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I would surprise me if people even care anymore after watching GW Bush trample, spit, and piss on the constitution for almost 8 YEARS.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by redled
 



You don’t have a Constitutional “Right” to vote for the President - at least as far as a popular majority of every inidividual voter deciding the issue.

It also mentions nothing about having rights to free education, health care, et al.

It only guarantees that the Government will not interfere with your right to pursue your own interests of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It does NOT guarantee that you will be safe and secure from every instance and happenstance of human existence.

Obama is seemingly unaware of the basic precepts and underlying thought behind the Constitution. Apparently, you are as well.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


Do you consider yourself a nice person? Yes? Good, Paypal me $10,000 USD right now.

If you don't evidently you aren't very nice either are you?


The Constitution gives the government NO AUTHORIZATION to use taxpayer money to pay for other peoples children.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by jetxnet


So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?


It has nothing to with being nice. It has to do with providing for your own first.


You're the richest country in the world and most of the EU manage the trick.



Some people, many people, making having babies and child support a business. They make sure to have at least one kid every three years to get more welfare and they do not work.


So change the rules. It really does not impact on health care by the way, nor minimum wage. In fact if it was worth going out to work........



You pay for their laziness.


Maybe you could give them a few skills and get them into a job, but that's probably too much hassle.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by passenger
reply to post by redled
 



You don’t have a Constitutional “Right” to vote for the President - at least as far as a popular majority of every inidividual voter deciding the issue.

It also mentions nothing about having rights to free education, health care, et al.

It only guarantees that the Government will not interfere with your right to pursue your own interests of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It does NOT guarantee that you will be safe and secure from every instance and happenstance of human existence.

Obama is seemingly unaware of the basic precepts and underlying thought behind the Constitution. Apparently, you are as well.



So the good samaritan does not figure. Not very Christian. I've been mis-sold methinks.



Slackwire:

Do you consider yourself a nice person? Yes? Good, Paypal me $10,000 USD right now.

If you don't evidently you aren't very nice either are you?


I will not wire you that money, lol, but have never complained at paying my taxes, I accept it as necessary for the greater good for the people who have to suffer living in my country.



The Constitution gives the government NO AUTHORIZATION to use taxpayer money to pay for other peoples children.


Seeing as I am in learning mode, does it ban the government from doing this? Does it authorise burping?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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I have it from a solid source that Mr. Obama is currently reviewing the US constitution, in fact he "has read 57 pages and only has 3 to go"



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:35 PM
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I fully agree with you Slacker, and I don’t present the following so much to you , but as to clarify what we are talking about here: Too many people today do not understand the basic difference between a Constitutional Right and a Government Entitlement. (I think - based on your prior posts- you would agree with the aforesaid).

To those who don’t understand the difference; Fisrt, actually read the Constitution !

Second: Understand that when the Government imposes a penalty, e.g. taxes, upon one person to pay for the inadequacies of another, it is violating the Constitution. It doesn’t make a difference if it’s Bush or Obama that is instigating it.

Imagine the Constitution as a referee in a boxing match: It’s there to make sure that nobody cheats the fighters of ties their hands. It is NOT there to ensure that nobody gets hurt - or knocked out. Making those that succeed pay for those that can’t, or won’t , is entirely UN-American!



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


The Constitution must AUTHORIZE government as to what it may specifically spend our money on. It fails to mention childcare, healthcare, or education among other things.

Omission of certain things is no a defacto authorization.

[edit on 22-7-2008 by slackerwire]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by passenger
I fully agree with you Slacker, and I don’t present the following so much to you , but as to clarify what we are talking about here: Too many people today do not understand the basic difference between a Constitutional Right and a Government Entitlement. (I think - based on your prior posts- you would agree with the aforesaid).

To those who don’t understand the difference; Fisrt, actually read the Constitution !

Second: Understand that when the Government imposes a penalty, e.g. taxes, upon one person to pay for the inadequacies of another, it is violating the Constitution. It doesn’t make a difference if it’s Bush or Obama that is instigating it.

Imagine the Constitution as a referee in a boxing match: It’s there to make sure that nobody cheats the fighters of ties their hands. It is NOT there to ensure that nobody gets hurt - or knocked out. Making those that succeed pay for those that can’t, or won’t , is entirely UN-American!



OK, that's all good, but what is this rubbish about you being a Christian Based Constiutional Government. What do you do about homeless children according to the consitution?



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by redled
So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?


sorry OP if i am interjecting where you would rather me not, but this is one of those asinine statements that really gets under my skin.

it isn't that some of us don't want others to have it, it is that we don't want to have to pay out of our pockets for others to have it. if i am taking care of the expenses for me and my kids, you certainly can take care of your own expenses.

these "guilt trips" some of you try to put the rest of us on are nothing more than socialist propaganda and make you come across as lazy free loaders.

first off, the children should be home w/ their momma's. most childcare facilities' expenses suck whatever she would be making anyway... so stay home and raise your babies. problem solved. next.........

healthcare is a joke. health insurance and programs such as medicaid coupled w/ the fact that most americans are babies and run to their doctors if they cut their finger and are having a bad day are the reasons that doctors have to hike up the costs of their services. cut out the unnecessary bs visits, get a job and start paying for the services of a doctor only in dire emergencies and then we will all be better able to afford to pay for the care we NEED.

and quit dictating what private business owners should have to pay for someone from day one. this attitude of i am worthy of YOUR $$ w/out proving myself first is another spoiled "hand me everything" attitude that has gotten us in the mess we are in today.

however, bc this is the prevailing attitude, you should be happy to know that you and others will get what you want for the time being. you will be handed everything by your country (aka the federal government, the entity to which you are slaves), but just mark these words down..... the piper will come a calling one day for his collection from the subjects he has supported and the costs of the free ride so many expect will be higher than you will ever think to imagine.

btw..... technically you are not even gonna be handed everything you think you need by the gov't.....first they will take it from my and others like me who work their arses off pockets, then they will pocket a great majority of that, then they will dole it out on their wars against humanities (whether they claim the war is on drugs or terrorists), then they will take a few photo ops to respresent us helping other countries, then whatever few "pennies" are left will go to the lazy arses of this country.

get a clue



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


I certainly have no problem with you setting people straight. I don't put much credence in his posts, obviously he is a foreigner commenting on an American topic.

Thats the only excuse for the ignorance he has shown.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by redled
So the good samaritan does not figure. Not very Christian. I've been mis-sold methinks.





if ya wanna bring christianity into this, then study your bible first. jesus never condoned stealing from other ppl to pass out freely to others. jesus encouraged charity, yes. but it is hardly charity when it is being taken from someone else's pocket.

remember the angry jesus in the temple? the one that drove out the theives who were stealing from others under the name of religion. he drove them out along w/ their henchmen. he was pretty darn pissed that they were "tricking" others out of their hard earned money in the name of God.

now, what was that about being christian?
again, get a clue


[edit on 22-7-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by redled
So you don't like child care for others, health care for others, or a minimum wage from day one for others. You aren't really very nice are you?


sorry OP if i am interjecting where you would rather me not, but this is one of those asinine statements that really gets under my skin.

it isn't that some of us don't want others to have it, it is that we don't want to have to pay out of our pockets for others to have it. if i am taking care of the expenses for me and my kids, you certainly can take care of your own expenses.

these "guilt trips" some of you try to put the rest of us on are nothing more than socialist propaganda and make you come across as lazy free loaders.

first off, the children should be home w/ their momma's. most childcare facilities' expenses suck whatever she would be making anyway... so stay home and raise your babies. problem solved. next.........


People 'should' is a poor way to get out of that. Children are the victims of when parents don't.



healthcare is a joke. health insurance and programs such as medicaid coupled w/ the fact that most americans are babies and run to their doctors if they cut their finger and are having a bad day are the reasons that doctors have to hike up the costs of their services. cut out the unnecessary bs visits, get a job and start paying for the services of a doctor only in dire emergencies and then we will all be better able to afford to pay for the care we NEED.


Having a fit and skilled workforce is economically very useful, no matter how fascist your standpoint.



and quit dictating what private business owners should have to pay for someone from day one. this attitude of i am worthy of YOUR $$ w/out proving myself first is another spoiled "hand me everything" attitude that has gotten us in the mess we are in today.


Lost us no jobs (British by the way)! If you're a Republican you should believe in trickle down economics......



however, bc this is the prevailing attitude, you should be happy to know that you and others will get what you want for the time being. you will be handed everything by your country (aka the federal government, the entity to which you are slaves), but just mark these words down..... the piper will come a calling one day for his collection from the subjects he has supported and the costs of the free ride so many expect will be higher than you will ever think to imagine.


Covered above.



btw..... technically you are not even gonna be handed everything you think you need by the gov't.....first they will take it from my and others like me who work their arses off pockets, then they will pocket a great majority of that, then they will dole it out on their wars against humanities (whether they claim the war is on drugs or terrorists), then they will take a few photo ops to respresent us helping other countries, then whatever few "pennies" are left will go to the lazy arses of this country.

get a clue


It's so funny how you go on about taxes and how that war in Iraq is what has cost you so dear recently, and honestly what have you won for anyone? Certainly you haven't helped many Iraqis health. Yeah, you got rid of Saddam..... learn some respect.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
..... the piper will come a calling one day for his collection from the subjects he has supported and the costs of the free ride so many expect will be higher than you will ever think to imagine.


Exactly right. The “piper” will come calling when those of us that produce and struggle will finally get sick and tired of providing for those that do not. When that day comes, either one of two things will happen: We will get sick of it and say “To Hell with THIS!” and just quit and sponge off of everyone else. This will, of course, start a chain-reaction in which soon nobody will produce anything and thus lead to the collapse of society. The other choice of, course, is to rise up and overthrow the oppressors and start again…



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


Who cares about the health of Iraqi's?
We are the ones being poisoned every day. Screw the Iraqi's.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by redled
 


Who cares about the health of Iraqi's?
We are the ones being poisoned every day. Screw the Iraqi's.


Which brings us to them theme at the beginning, not helping others. If it's screw the Iraqis, then why pay for it all?????



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by redled
 


It isn't the obligation of people to help others. It is nothing more than people imposing their BS morals on other peoples wallets.






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