The War in Iraq is over.

An aircraft carrier has been re-deployed to support Afghanistan, a second carrier has standing orders to redeploy to the south pacific (pending updated orders which have not been issued).

The war in Iraq is over.

I would like to remind people, that after we defeated Germany in WW2, we faced an inusrgency for 6 years afterwards. It was finally put down, for the most part, in 1951.

The War in Iraq is over. Plans for drawing down are being put in place (which the next president will take credit for). 40,000 troops will be redeployed to Afghanistan, with another 110,000 heading home.

The Navy will continue to remind Iran of consequences.

The war in Iraq is over, it is an American Victory.





[edit on 15-7-2008 by crisko]

Yeah for the most part is. I mean the WAR has been over there for a while. The insurgency battle is going to ebb and flow with periods of long quiet interrupted by violence but that is to be expected. I hope for the Iraqi's sake that they arent just being quiet so that we will leave and then asd soon as we do the place spins into civil War. But yeah you're right-the war is over.

reply to post by crisko

it is an American Victory.

What exactly did we win?

We are effectively being kicked out. The people who started this war are trying their best to broker a binding long term presence there. The Iraqi govt is not having it and is trying to demand our withdrawal. That doesn't sound like a victory to me.

We won the war. We killed far more of them than they did of us but what was it all for? Is the world a safer place? Will fewer Iraqi's die from 2003-forward now that Saddam is gone?

Defense contractors are now rich. Oil producing countries are now insanely wealthy. Oil companies now have some sweet contracts. Our economy is in tatters. Our constitution is no longer valid.

Some victory....

It isn't America Defending itself, its conquest. We're conquering the middle east. What other nation has naval bases on every other world power? I don't see any russian, chinese, japanese, english bases on United States Soil. If you ask me we need to get our noses out of where it doesnt belong.

The US is just repositioning itself for an Israeli attack on Iran!

And how did America win???

I thought the official story is that the Us was supposed to be toppling a dictatorship - not invading a defenseless country to win anything. And how do you win against a guerilla army in a foreign country anyway?
Obviously the official story is now known to be complete crap, seeing as with the slaughter of countless innocents and all that - there must've been another agenda

How did we win? We gave hope to people who had none. There are many on this site that have said we are there for only the higher ups to make money, that may or may not be true. All I can account for is what I saw and did over there. I saw children go to school for the first time, I helped rebuild schools and hospitals, I saw police being trained, I helped train the initial Iraqi National guard. So yes we did win, but more importantly the people of Iraq are winning, it is now up to them, we have given them the tools, knowledge and support to do this. Their increased freedom is and should be our victory.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Karl,

Our Economy is indeed in tatters, but that has nothing to do with Iraq. Our economy does correct itself about every 20 years (that last time being '88 if I recall).

While Iraq will not be a true democracy for a time to come, it is more moderate than it was. Arab countries no longer wish war with Israel, we managed a somewhat peaceful regime change in Pakistan.

Once Afghanistan is stabilized, we can move on to Africa as the U.S. military is looking past the ME and developing an African Command with some teeth. Iran will be the NK of the ME should they continue down the path.

Oil producing nations getting rich? Again that is due to our lawmakers, and is being addressed currently; both by domestic drilling as well as alternative fuels.

While I would agree that the war in Iraq is one that we should not have engaged in at the time (I say at the time, because it HAD to be done eventually), the cost to our nation is not as great as it could have been.

All other issues you raised are due to failed legislation that is not current with the times.

It is, an American Victory.

The era of dictators is coming to an end.



[edit on 15-7-2008 by crisko]

Originally posted by crisko

Our Economy is indeed in tatters, but that has nothing to do with Iraq.

An army of economists disagree with your assessment. Here is one of countless articles that address the impact of the war on the American economy. The financial and resulting social costs of this war will be felt for decades.

Iran's traditional enemy, Iraq, has been utterly destroyed which has emboldened Iran to the point where it constitutes a legitimate threat to world peace.

Oh, and over 4000 Americans died there.

We lost.

Originally posted by crisko
The era of dictators is coming to an end.

I hope so. I would like to see the American constitution reinstated and Adolf Bush out of power.

If only Iraq attacked us first, killing many thousands of people. If only we had a "just" cause for being there. If only we had this, if only we had that.
The war is a war and not opinion, argument, or protest is going to stop where the bullets meet the meat.

If this is true it might just be a good thing for both sides of the fence. The worn out, tired, over deployed military might just get a brief, well deserved break. And the people that are against the war in Iraq will finally see the end to their cause. Whether, or not America gained a "victory" is going to be argued to the bitter end. The only victory I see for us is the relatively low number of American fighting men and women we have lost.

You can put the argument out there that we were fighting a under equipped, low trained, un-organized group of men. That would make total sense to. The thing is most of the time when you put, lets call them a milita, agains a well trained, well equipped army. You might get a surprise on who wins. Barbarians vs. Romans, Celts vs. Romans, Colonial America vs. British, Vietnam vs. America, Afghanistan vs. Russia. The reason the underdog tends to get the victory is, alot of the times they are very passionate men totally dedicated to the fight. The "under dogs" I just mentioned were able to inflict massive casualties against the "goliath."

Granted every fighting women and men lost comes at great loss. They all had lives, families, and that will not be forgotten. The men and women volunteered and died in a war. The only thing that I have to say about this is at-least we didn't lose 50,000, 100,000, or more. That's the only victory that I think America has obtained. And that's the only victory that I will recognize. War is unfortunate, stupid, and costly. Now were onto who knows what.

reply to post by USMC-oorah


Colonists vs. British. Yep. Well said on your points. Even long after the deed is done, we will all still be able to legitimately argue the necessity of nearly any war. The victors get to write the history books, and the fallen often get forgotten, except in the family zone.

[edit to smack myself in the head, as I now see, after the fact that you included colonists and British.] I'm claiming momentary temporal nexus flux disorientation. Sounds so much better than not paying attention.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by argentus]

It was an illegal war, for not only were wmd not found, but the only one who deployed according to the UN definition was the U.S. Estimates are that 1000 tons of depleted uranium was used in Afghanistan and roughly equivalent in Iraq. We havn't won that war. The entire world is slowly dying and the dna of all living things is being eroded.

mutage.oxfordjournals.org...

The purpose of the current study was to measure the toxicity of depleted uranium as uranyl acetate (UA) in mammalian cells....

This is the first report of the formation of uranium?DNA adducts and mutations in mammalian cells after direct exposure to a depleted uranium compound. Data suggest that uranium could be chemically genotoxic and mutagenic through the formation of strand breaks and covalent U?DNA adducts. Thus the health risks for uranium exposure could go beyond those for radiation exposure.

Though denying the potential severe risk of the DU, the U.S. does know and has known for some time, yet deployed these anyway.

"http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR407A.html

1943 MANHATTAN PROJECT BLUEPRINT FOR DEPLETED URANIUM

In a declassified memo to General Leslie R. Groves, dated October 30, 1943, three of the top physicists in the Manhattan Project, Dr James B Conant, A H Compton, and H C Urey, made their recommendation, as members of the Subcommittee of the S-1 Executive Committee, on the ?Use of Radioactive Materials as a Military Weapon?:

"As a gas warfare instrument the material would be ground into particles of microscopic size to form dust and smoke and distributed by a ground-fired projectile, land vehicles, or aerial bombs. In this form it would be inhaled by personnel. The amount necessary to cause death to a person inhaling the material is extremely small ? There are no known methods of treatment for such a casualty ? it will permeate a standard gas mask filter in quantities large enough to be extremely damaging."

As a Terrain Contaminant:

"To be used in this manner, the radioactive materials would be spread on the ground either from the air or from the ground if in enemy controlled territory. In order to deny terrain to either side except at the expense of exposing personnel to harmful radiations ? Areas so contaminated by radioactive material would be dangerous until the slow natural decay of the material took place ? for average terrain no decontaminating methods are known. No effective protective clothing for personnel seems possible of development. ? Reservoirs or wells would be contaminated or food poisoned with an effect similar to that resulting from inhalation of dust or smoke."...

and

www.globalresearch.ca...
Described as the Trojan Horse of nuclear war, depleted uranium is the weapon that keeps killing. The half-life of Uranium-238 is 4.5 billion years, the age of the earth. And, as Uranium-238 decays into daughter radioactive products, in four steps before turning into lead, it continues to release more radiation at each step. There is no way to turn it off, and there is no way to clean it up. It meets the US Government?s own definition of Weapons of Mass Destruction....

After forming microscopic and submicroscopic insoluble Uranium oxide particles on the battlefield, they remain suspended in air and travel around the earth as a radioactive component of atmospheric dust, contaminating the environment, indiscriminately killing, maiming and causing disease in all living things where rain, snow and moisture remove it from the atmosphere. Global radioactive contamination from atmospheric testing was the equivalent of 40,000 Hiroshima bombs, and still contaminates the atmosphere and lower orbital space today. The amount of low level radioactive pollution from depleted uranium released since 1991, is many times more (deposited internally in the body), than was released from atmospheric testing fallout...

Of course, if Iran happens, there will be no need for nuclear exchange to depopulate as our planet is currently extremely compromised. We are so insulated here, many simply do not understand the winds will blow this contamination for billions of years, and each time the minute particles build in our body we become ever increasingly damaged, soon this man's lament for his people in Afghanistan, shared now by Iraq, will be our own:

And again from above source
"After the Americans destroyed our village and killed many of us, we also lost our houses and have nothing to eat. However, we would have endured these miseries and even accepted them, if the Americans had not sentenced us all to death. When I saw my deformed grandson, I realized that my hopes of the future have vanished for good, different from the hopelessness of the Russian barbarism, even though at that time I lost my older son Shafiqullah. This time, however, I know we are part of the invisible genocide brought on us by America, a silent death from which I know we will not escape." (Jooma Khan of Laghman province, March 2003)

Due to the extraordinary insanity of our leaders, the entire human race started losing the wars in every way possible from the 1990s on, when DU was employed massively in weaponry.


[edit on 15-7-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 15-7-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 15-7-2008 by mystiq]

Iraq is not a war, it is a battle in the third world war. Until we see a nuclear holocaust, pole shift, first contact etc....it will never be over.

It is over!

To remind everybody we also sat on Japan for a few years also and fought off insurgents there too against communist and remnants of Imperial Japan

keep in mind we still have major military facilities in both countries still to this day.

An American Victory?

Well only time will tell

Technically we won already when they tore down saddams statue and we captured him the defeat of Iraqs military was the victory.

This is blatantly not an American victory. If the Allies lose Afghanistan, it is because the Western (Bush) excesses of Iraq lost us the moral high ground. I blame Blair for giving Bush credibility, but this is not a victory. We have further destabilised Afghanistan, Iran, reinforced Al Qaieda, and if that is not a threat, totally undermined our civil liberties at home. If that is victory, what is the cost? Not in trillions, but in hope and love over fear?

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by crisko

 

it is an American Victory.

What exactly did we win?

We are effectively being kicked out. The people who started this war are trying their best to broker a binding long term presence there. The Iraqi govt is not having it and is trying to demand our withdrawal. That doesn't sound like a victory to me.

We won the war. We killed far more of them than they did of us but what was it all for? Is the world a safer place? Will fewer Iraqi's die from 2003-forward now that Saddam is gone?

Defense contractors are now rich. Oil producing countries are now insanely wealthy. Oil companies now have some sweet contracts. Our economy is in tatters. Our constitution is no longer valid.

Some victory....

I fully agree.
Couldnt have said it better myself.

Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Jbird]

Daily coverage of the War in Iraq

uruknet.info...


Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Jbird]

I wouldn't call leaving with less than we had a "victory."

The real question is, even if we did change things for the better, was it worth it at the cost of American lives?

I am going to sound insensitive to many people here when I say this, but I am an American. I care about America. In the end, even if Iraq wasn't a threat, I would have rather seen it blown off the face of the earth than lose so many American soldiers. I feel bad for what people have to deal with over their, but the fact is, it is out of our hands. We are not responsible (at least we weren't) for the problems in the middle east.

To act as if we did this as angels of mercy is lying to the world. We did it for greedy reasons and we are a lesser country for it.

And sorry to say, I don't think we have anything to be afraid of. If they had nuclear power, we would blow their warhead out of the sky before it got within a continent of the US. So who are we protecting? Ourselves or special interest?

Originally posted by Dermo
The US is just repositioning itself for an Israeli attack on Iran!

And how did America win???

I thought the official story is that the Us was supposed to be toppling a dictatorship - not invading a defenseless country to win anything. And how do you win against a guerilla army in a foreign country anyway?
Obviously the official story is now known to be complete crap, seeing as with the slaughter of countless innocents and all that - there must've been another agenda

This War was Financed by American Taxpayers money, exclusively for Israels Oil Depot.......Americans have been rewarded with Cheap Gas @ the low price of $6.00 per gallon, WoW, what a win, win situation.

reply to post by Dubyakadubla


You really screwed up the stability of oil supply, and hence your economy that Bush was relying on to pay for his (Daddy's) war. I want to see a poll of Republicans in 10 years time, was he good, or a disgrace? The thing is, nepotistically, he has handed his family billions, like some banana state third world dictator. And he did support the family.....