Truther throws in the towel, admits it's all B.S.

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


Ok, maybe your colors aren't as clear as I thought they were starting to be. What I mean is, you cleared it up quite well as to what the topic should be.

I believe this man was a 'truther'. I believe that he had a change of heart. Kind of like I did but in the other direction.

To keep on topic, I say that it's a drop in the bucket compared to the actual growth of the list who at least have questions about that event. I have seen these kind of quick withdrawals from the movement by leaders of groups in the Seattle area. Not because they all of a sudden believed the 'official story' but more because of the stupid and idiotic left field conspiracies about that day.

For the record, I have only once opened a thread that said there were no planes, or that it was lasers or some other garbage like that. I refuse to pollute my mind with garbage anymore than I already have.

I simply have questions that I want answered. That's all. I have yet to see our government do that. I can't beleive that this guy believes now that the government has done so well enough for him to get out of the movement.

Anyway, keep up the posts. But all I am saying is that you shouldn't automatically attack people who post off topic when they are trying to present 'their' facts about how their are 'real' experts joining the truth movement every day.

I'm not talking about the fabricated names like you mentioned in another reply above. I'm talking about verifiable names. People in high positions in our government or society.

Originally posted by driveshaft08
Mikey Metzger says

"No structural, civil, or any engineers agree with the truthers."

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Also see the following site.

www.tms.org...

So these guys are saying in the film that every fireman in new york that day was in on it?These guys are saying that every fireman in new york that day helped killed 3,000 people?
I don't blame him I would bail as well.That has to be the craziest thing I've ever heard.

Originally posted by Tricky63
So these guys are saying in the film that every fireman in new york that day was in on it?.

Who is stating the firemen were in on anything?

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar


As far as a "truther" (God that word is pretentious) coming out and saying his beliefs were bunk, well good for him. He followed a train of thought that eventually led him to a brick wall, and he quit. I do really question whether he believed it in the first place, as he is on the fringe of even fringe ideas.

Now, SAP, you are indeed (as one poster mentioned) grouping people with any conspiracy interest into one large pool. Its not that simple, not by a long shot. Laser beams? Well I won't go into my beliefs on the subject other than to say I don't have any solid "belief" and my thoughts on the subject don't include laser beams.

Even you must taste the snide nature of your responses. Instead of coming into a forum assuming that you will be the victor, it is important to realize that knowledge of the real truth is non-existent. There are strong beliefs, but that's all they are. There is no proof either way. So create a thread with the hopes of good argument, not domination. We don't get anywhere with that rhetoric.

reply to post by SantaClaus


Which part of pseudo skeptic or fake truther didnt you get?


911 and the truth about it is coming out at an alarming rate minute by minute. There is no recuruitment or requirements needed. Just common sense, and the love for truth and justice.

We are winning. We will see justice. Yee haw.

reply to post by ULTIMA1
Read the man's blog.IMO the reason why he bailed is a good reason.

Originally posted by Tricky63
Read the man's blog.IMO the reason why he bailed is a good reason.

Well whatever the reason was he must not have been a true truth seeker.

Originally posted by driveshaft08
Mikey Metzger says

"No structural, civil, or any engineers agree with the truthers."

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

I dont believe he was ever was a truther!

Beat me to it. Not to mention this Civil/Structural engineer.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by Griff]

reply to post by Griff



Slightlyabovepar give up now. Ivan is one of the worst people to get into an argument with. I will never let him live down the whole "flight 93 wing marks were there from a previuos mining scar and were not caused by the plane crashing" Yet when I proved he was wrong on this he just ignored me and moved on to something else. He also rarely forms his own thoughts and most of his thread are someone elses ideas. He want to talk about people being sheep yet he is the biggest sheep of them all.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Who is stating the firemen were in on anything?


Alex Jones.

He also stated that the FDNY is "Guilty of at least Manslaughter."

Jason Bermas of Loose change said it too. But later apologized said it was "Jedi Mind Tricks."

I think anyone that believes that Silverstein had a hand in demolishing his building would have to agree that the FDNY played a hand it as well. Since it was the FDNY he claims to have spoken with.

Sorry for de-railing.

I was a truther as well.

Started with a Pentagon video. Then to Loose Change. Then to Who Killed John O'Neil.

Then I did research. Within 3 months I had answers to 99% of my questions.

(I still think Bush is responsible for not paying attention and being an incompetent dweeb)

The level of psychological warfare that takes place in this world really is amazing.

You know... that inflationary model makes sense in a way. It is easy to see how junk theories would evolve in that manner. What if 9/11 really was carried out by a bunch of cave dwelling jihadist? What if the holes in the 9/11 story were put there intentionally to distract anyone smart enough to see them?

If indeed every conspiracy theory regarding how 9/11 was carried out and by whom is wrong, does that discredit the larger conspiracy? No. Bilderbergs, Bush/CIA, Iraq lies, Iran lies, globalization, it is all still very real and verifiable. Maybe the whole idea of 9/11 conspiracy was to let it build and build and build, and then pull the rug from under it so that people would think since 9/11 conspiracy isn't true, no conspiracy is true? People seem to think that if 9/11 conspiracies really are bull#, then that means every conspiracy is bull#.

If it turned out that 9/11 really happened how they say it did, and at worst Bush only allowed it to take place, it would really be a blessing in disguise. Maybe everyone who is still so obsessed with 9/11 truth would move on and focus their efforts on exposing the larger conspiracies which are more relevant and more verifiable.

[edit on 7/14/2008 by Santeria]

DISCLAIMER: hard-over, tourette syndrome, one line posting truthers who argue ad nasuem semantics in defense of their faith beliefs - this isn't for you. In fact, it's likely to encourage the kind of behavior that relegates the truth club to it's continued fringe niche, like all other conspiracy theories.

Certainly, as long as you acknowledge that the OS is still a CT by definition and subject to the same scientific scrutiny.

reply to post by IvanZana
thanks IvanZana! I agree! I've seen the crazy media- sourced hologram stories. I've seen disinfo editorials attempting to make truth-seekers seem crazy, criminal or 'out there' by offering some pretty outlandish disinfo or explanations, instead of focusing on other theories or explanations that were even more solid with strong evidence.

The editorials looked as if had been written by professional belittlers or humiliaters to make legitimate truth-seekers seem stupid or thuggish.

I think an argument out there is that 9/11 was at least known in advance by the CIA, but taken advantage of by the controllers of America upon the aftermath of the attacks in an excuse to invade nations for power and profit (or oil)

What really hit the pentagon? One thing for sure, a large passenger plane DID not hit the pentagon.

And what about the third tower? how could it collapse? There was a fire in a single floor...thats it! Is that what brought the whole thing down? A fire fueled by... paper?

The media is omitting or blurring many bits of information, trying to make people forget about damaging information or secrets in an effort to blur the line between reality and fiction.


[edit on 14-7-2008 by star in a jar]

reply to post by ThroatYogurt

I have to point this out, but you dont have answers to 99% of my questions, nor all questions regarding the matter.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
The leader of the Albany, NY truth club calls it quits
[edit on 14-7-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

The "leader" of the Albany, NY 911 truth club??? Since when they nominate or appoint leaders to represent or direct them?

This is a pointless thread... Nobody cares about some deranged guy who broke out with a movement as wide and politically uncohesive as the so-called "911 Truth movement" because of him being influenced by this mediocre attempt at debunking Loose Change, or his own demented beliefs about the Towers having been destroyed by huge lasers.

In other related news, here's this story of a reputable, high-educated men who worked for years within the US defense accusing Dick Cheney of being the one behind the September 11 attacks, and there's actually some strong arguments behind his sayings:

Former Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney Main 9/11 Suspect

Well there was definitely about a million things wrong with what the US did as a result of September 11th, and WTC7 still is a glaring sore spot with me because I can look at the video and decide for myself whether it looks natural or not... and since then, people have just become more and more complacent and bizzare to anyone who's not completely drowned in the sea of propaganda and distraction...

So maybe the problem with most truthers is they will be willing to believe almost anything, but nobody is willing to truly know anything because it is too much of an assault on their ego-centric comfort.

I'll tell you, true knowing/realization isn't like a "Woohoo now I know things you don't, and I'm gunna go in the street with a megaphone and shout at you like you're all insignificant idiots" kind of feeling. It feels like you are dying inside, and it takes a long time to get over, and you sacrifice a lot in order to get to a point where you're in balance again.

The truth movement, it seems, is just another angle to the propaganda... trying to take the side of the "patriotic American" while completely ignoring the hordes of other issues that bubble up to the surface when dealing with a thing of this magnitude. Most people are only willing to go just so far as they don't damage the comfort zone they are living in... comfort with themselves, their society, their ambitions, their very sense of what is real....

I often wonder what these people on here constantly trying to debunk things and keep their status quo in tact are DOING here? There are a few people who stay guarded and skeptical... but there are some who really really stretch the limits of what is doubt and what is insane denial... either that or they have an agenda.

If everyone who isn't sitting pretty in blissful ignorance land is TRULY psychotic, then just leave us be with our crazy ideas. Go about your day as if nothing is wrong and that this can all go on forever. What use do you have coming on here? Most people accept it as just ya know people being skeptical and stuff, and I accept that there are just some trolls that like to get a rise out of people... but the farther into things I go, the LESS I understand why some skeptics and debunkers on here are so fervent about what they do. I really see no logical reason why they would waste all of their time trying to convince a bunch of "crazy conspiracy theorists" that they are wrong.

If you truly knew what you were talking about, skeptics and debunkers, you would barely be able to leave your house without being repulsed and repelled by society. It is possible that, unconsciously, people such as the OP here come on here and try to debunk even the obvious things because they are truly uncomfortable with the change that is happening. Massive change is happening, whether or not you "believe".

Show proof? Or proof shown? Denial comes in layers.

I read the blog and find it very interesting. First, I assume this occurred a while ago, so its not really breaking news (the blog says Dec. 31, 2008, but I'm assuming he met 2007). I do realize that in the context of this thread that doesn't matter, but I just noticed that.

I think that everyone, truther or debunker (or anyone in between) should read this blog. To me, it illustrates how not to form an opinion on this subject matter (or any matter for that opinion). He admits that he only watched CT videos to form his original opinion, and that is why he became involved in the 9-11 truth movement. I think this may be true of many people, and it is absolutely the wrong thing to do. If you believe in something so much that you are unwilling to look at evidence presented by people on the other side of the argument, then you really are not interested in searching for truth. Everyone should look at info from both sides of the argument, so they can form an educated opinion.

Having said that, I think that by far there are way more people that adamantly believe the official story without having ever given the information on the other side a fair look. Many of these people call "truthers" treasonous, yet have looked at no information other than what the mainstream media has told them.

The even more egregious offense is that the media refuses to even inform people of arguments against the OS, despite the fact that they are suppose to be unbiased. This seems to lead more credence to the fact that there may indeed be a cover up occurring, and at the very least makes them responsible for widespread ignorance on the issue.

I think that you'll find (and this is just my opinion) that the majority of people that fairly look at both sides of the evidence don't believe the official story (myself included). They may not think it was an inside job, but they feel that there are huge holes in the OS.

While I don't question this mans sincerity, I do find some problems with his blog. He asserts that all of the leaders of the truth movement are just charlatans trying to make money. However, he presents no facts to back that up. The fact that without evidence he presumes to say all leaders of the 9-11 truth movement are only in it for the money says a lot to me about this mans character. I believe that many are patriots that truly want justice for families of the victims and want their country to live up to what the forefathers would have wanted.

Even if people are making money, it is still easy to see that the people on the other side (the government) have much to gain from telling their side of the story. So leaving one side of people because they are spreading their message for personal gain, and going to another side that does the exact same thing seems somewhat futile.

I also think that there is a problem with trying to lump all of the "truthers" together (as some on this thread seem to be doing). Only one thing unites all truthers, and that is that we don't believe the OS. I may think that it was an inside job where real planes hit, and another may think it was lazer beams, or maybe another would think the government just failed horribly and is covering up facts.

The fact is that the burden of proof is on the government. We pay them to protect us, and when they failed we payed them to have an investigation to tell us why, and to many well informed people, that story doesn't add up. It doesn't matter if I have a different theory of what happened or not, if the governments story is false, they they must be held accountable, and there must be another investigation to get to the bottom of it. I do have theories on what could have happened, but poking holes in those theories does nothing to further prove the governments story (meaning both could be wrong).

Lastly, I feel this story no more reflects on the truth of the matter than when an OS believer becomes a "truther". I would say that 99% of truthers believed the OS at one time or another (I know I did). So if this story is being used to imply the truthers are wrong, then we should be able to use all of these people as reasons why the OS is false.

I have been on this site for all of two days. Clearly the content here is at least three parts disinformation per one part information, much of the information is specious, and the banter is often fairly immature. To say something as shallow, obtuse and categorically dismissive as, "It's all B.S." in the title of a thread is about as strong a validation for the truth movement as any disinfo agent could offer. I hope the quality and maturity of the debate improves, rather than slinging "I believe it because I believe it" statements back and forth.