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posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


You know, the degree that's called "Master of the Royal Secret"? Right there in Albert Pike's Morals & Dogma, chapter XXXII, for anyone to read. Go ahead. I'll wait.
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Yeh, but wasn't it Albert Pike who said, or hinted at, you all being Luciferians? I think this is one of the problems with freemasonry Isn't it. When a highly respected mason such as Pike says words along those lines you can't really blame the lunatic fringe of the conspiracy network claiming that freemasons are all devil worshippers.
I don't think you are but I think secretly freemasons everywhere love it when this crops up. It justs add to that air of mystery.




posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


Despite the claims, no, he didn't.
The taxil hoax says he did, but that's as close as you'll gt.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

I have to admit that freemasonry baffles me!

...

Freemasons gain knowledge the higher they climb up through the degrees so what do you do when you reach the third degree and find the secrets shared with you appear to be nonsense or uninteresting or alternatively, dangerous? It would seem to me that any really truely inspiring or world breaking truth wouldn't be shared with an ordinary mason who may find it all too far fetched and turn his back and walk away to spill his knowledge to the world press. So the secrets can't be that mind-blowing can they? And if they aren't, what does freemasonry really have to offer?


You are making an assumption here that Freemasons actually tell you a tangible "Secret" or "Truth." Your mindset is wrong...

Freemasonry teaches us to "explore the mysteries of Nature and Science, the better to know our Maker."

By means of the ritual, we are inspired and encouraged to think or contemplate on various things. No conclusion is ever given. Every Mason makes his own conclusion, and develops his own understanding of the Creator.

It is this personal understanding which is the secret of Freemasonry.

So I can never tell this secret to anybody else - not to a Mason, and not to a non-Mason. I can't, even if I want to, because faith is a personal thing. I cannot give someone else my Faith. The secret is my own, and every other Mason has his own secret.

So you asked the question:" So the secrets can't be that mind-blowing can they? And if they aren't, what does freemasonry really have to offer?"

The answer to your question is simply:
Your own secret.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


The best way I can tell you this is that the "secrets" are put there (IMHO) to keep an intrest of outsiders. If you want to know the secrets, join us. Once you know what freemasonry is all about, any person who believes in God or a supream being, and is a good person would greatly benefit from the teachings, assuming they actually learned them. I remember thinking that the big secret is there are no secrets. While there are little things I vowed to keep secret like the handshakes, passwords, and how the ceremonys are done. Imagine my surprise when I read everything I was supposed to keep secret in Duncans Ritual. We keep the secrets because we said we would. It is hard for anyone who is skeptical to beileve that, but it is the truth. I worry that there are good people who are turned off because of the secret thing, but I guess there are enough curious people that come through the doors.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Pike mentions the "Light" being an actual entity or "god" or center of worship that is not as sold to the lower levels as knowledge.


I cannot agree with your interpretation of Pike, although feel free to quote him in relation to your comment.


Which God or energy do you see :

1 Pikes interpretation of it as

2 When worshipping the light personally who do you think you are giving obedience and servitude to?


This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - I John 1:5


Dont you realise its a religion behind locked doors, very much like the old catholic Masses in latin the congregation couldnt understand and or read or right, and the priests and such like were behind screen and the "secret" ceremony took place their.


It all depends on how you define "religion". Obviously, if you ask a Freemason what his religion is, he probably isn't going to say "Freemasonry". On the other hand, if you define "religion" as St. James did, that "pure religion" consists in doing good deeds and keeping oneself "unspotted from the world", then Freemasonry probably qualifies.


If I promise you I have secrets, and hidden Knowledge, which in fact I do that I could never pass on as its orally transmitted anyhow, but If I was prepared to offer you the secrets to some Yiddams and Mantras NEVER published, would you come to my house and Bare your breast, put on a hood, and noose and do my housework and worship me?


lol, probably not. But I think you're comparing apples with oranges. Freemasonry does not condone worshipping people, nor does it claim to possess any hidden knowledge of that nature.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


You are making an assumption here that Freemasons actually tell you a tangible "Secret" or "Truth." Your mindset is wrong...
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Now I'm really confused! Just as I had got used to the idea that the secrets were learnt the higher one climbs through the different degrees along comes you who says there are no secrets and that my mindset is wrong. Well, if it is wrong then it is not entirely my fault as I'm only going on what other masons have told me here on ATS.
No wonder I'm confused about all this mason stuff. If masons themselves can't agree on something as important as the secret aspect of the brotherhood then what chance does an outsider like me have?



posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


I am not in disagreement with the other Masons on this site. Again, you are assuming the "Secrets" of each degree (including side orders) of which the Masons speak are tangible.

Every degree in Masonry (including the side orders) gives more food for thought which catalyzes the personal and spiritual development of the Mason. This personal development that the Mason undergoes is the secret of that degree.

So I am not disagreeing with the other Masons on the site. I'm simply clarifying the nature of the "Secrets" of the degrees.

P.S. Two quick things which I should add here for the sake of correctness:

1.) Each degree does have signs, grips and passwords which are tangible "Secrets" of each degree, but as far as I understand from the discussion so far, these are not the "Secrets" we are discussing.

2.) I am a Master Mason, but I am not a member of any side orders yet, so what I have posted on this thread thus far is my understanding based on discussions with my fellow Masons. I do not claim to be authoritative on the side orders, but I'm sure the other Masons on the site who do belong to the various side orders will back up what I have said here.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


1.) Each degree does have signs, grips and passwords which are tangible "Secrets" of each degree, but as far as I understand from the discussion so far, these are not the "Secrets" we are discussing.

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Which brings me back to a question I once asked a mason on here which was- do you have passwords (key words) and hand shakes (grips) to show other masons that you secretly recognise them, and if this is the case, and I think it is, Isn't that proof that some masons see themselves above the law? Let's say you get pulled over for a traffic offence and the cop who pulls you is a freemason, a simple handshake or saying the right words, and you'll get off scot free. Meanwhile us ordinary people end up forever paying speeding/parking fines!
You have to admit the potential is there for freemasons to dodge the law, and if they can do it with minor offences like fines what else can you get away with? Do you see where I'm coming from?



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


That you think it it's possible that it's happening so therefore should be prosecuted or believed to be happening?



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by RuneSpider
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


That you think it it's possible that it's happening so therefore should be prosecuted or believed to be happening?


Sorry but I don't understand what you're saying! If you're saying that I believe that masons should not be able to dodge the law by using a simple handshake or codeword then you're right. Nothing against masons but we should all be treated as equals in the eyes of the law.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 07:29 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


but for that matter, anyone who was in any group, might gain a little help now and then by association. While anyone here will probably tell you that never happens in masonry, we all know it probably does at times, just like two guys who were in the special forces or marines might be, or the UAW. Any group would look out for their own. And trust me on this, not all cops are masons. I personally would not ask or expect any favors from a brother if I was in the wrong, I would actually expect that brother to mention that I should be held to a higher standard. One day you might have a ticket dissapear because you were a productive member of ATS.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Which brings me back to a question I once asked a mason on here which was- do you have passwords (key words) and hand shakes (grips) to show other masons that you secretly recognise them, and if this is the case, and I think it is, Isn't that proof that some masons see themselves above the law? Let's say you get pulled over for a traffic offence and the cop who pulls you is a freemason, a simple handshake or saying the right words, and you'll get off scot free. Meanwhile us ordinary people end up forever paying speeding/parking fines!
You have to admit the potential is there for freemasons to dodge the law, and if they can do it with minor offences like fines what else can you get away with? Do you see where I'm coming from?
Why would I need a silly grip or word to do that? I keep my Masonic dues card in my wallet along with all my other ID anyone would ever ask me to show...

But that doesn't mean someone is going to get off easy because they're a Mason. We're supposed to set examples in the community. That means a brother who is a copy would probably treat me more sternly than he might a non-brother.



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Mason mike
reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


but for that matter, anyone who was in any group, might gain a little help now and then by association. While anyone here will probably tell you that never happens in masonry, we all know it probably does at times, just like two guys who were in the special forces or marines might be, or the UAW. Any group would look out for their own. And trust me on this, not all cops are masons. I personally would not ask or expect any favors from a brother if I was in the wrong, I would actually expect that brother to mention that I should be held to a higher standard. One day you might have a ticket dissapear because you were a productive member of ATS.


Well we agree that being a mason possibly helps one dodge the odd speeding or parking fine but how far does the ability to evade the law go? And even if a police officer did prosecute you and you ended up in court we all know that many judges are masons and therefore a simple code word, etc, would get you off the hook. My friend, you seem to be an honourable kind of guy, whether you are a mason or not, but some in your position would abuse the knowledge you have gained and I find that abhorant.
And as for dodging a fine for being a productive member of ATS! I think it's more likely to get us banged up for life. . .



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Mintwithahole.
 


I heard Charlie Manson flashed a masonic sign to the judge when he was being sentenced. How did that work out for him?


As a mason, I would hope to never hear that kind of thing happened. As a realist, you know the drill. But if a mason was to be guilty of any fellony (and some misdeminors) he would be kicked out of the lodge in a masonic trial. ( much like a court marshal) I do get what you are saying though. I do have a funny story about a fellow ATS dude. I was alerted the other day that out of 10,500 some odd people in the world who are members of ATS, a guy who lives less than two miles from me is also a member. I can only hope he owns the bakery. You know, friends in high places and all.
Have a good weekend Mint.



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Hello Gentlemen, Thank you for your patience with us. I can only imagine how it must be to have to take the abuse from people more worried about judging others than themselves.

We've been enduring it for centuries and we're quite used to it.

I've been skimming Morals and Dogma and it has some great stuff as well as different views on things I hadn't thought about before. To be quite honest, the organization sounds a lot like "Boy Scouts" for adults, I was wondering if there are any ties to the "Boy Scouts"?

Actually the Boy Scouts do have their Masonic links though indirectly. The founder of the Boy Scouts was a Freemason.

Also, I'm not sure if any of you would know this or not, but I see "Jay-Z", the artist, in a lot of threads lately around the net rumored to be a mason. Any truth behind that?

I dont think so......

I study the Hebrew and Greek direct translations. I have seen that many of the terms in there elude to masonry. I was wondering if Hiram is another name for Aaron. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but Hiram was the First Builder? Aaron was the first High priest. Is there any link between them.

There's no correlation between the two as far as I'm aware. There's a theory out there (esoterically) that Hiram King of Tyre and Hiram the builder are but the representation of the higher and lowers selves of Hiram.

And Last, Jesus said, "I am the chief cornerstone, (pyramid capstone) who the builders rejected". Through study I've come to see that the "Chief" is the last one in line and not the first. Eldest being the First, Chief being the last. Is his statement in any way speaking of the masons?

Interestingly, this same line "I am the chief cornerstone, who the builders rejected" is used to describe a certain part of the Royal Arch degree. Actually it describes THE Royal Arch not the capstone on the pyramid. Such is the importance of Jesus' ministry in the York Rite degrees. (whom you have to at least swear to defend the Christian faith to belong to). The Christian trinity is central to the rite and I can personally tell you that there is no darkness of devil worship involved. However, I will openly say there are some gnostic elements involved as well as some deeply esoteric Christian teachings. For gnosticism see the gospel of Judas, Thomas, Mary etc.


Thanks for your response and may the holy one bless you in your struggles. Peace


And you in your's as they are one and the same my friend.
[edit on 27-2-2009 by solomanskey]

[edit on 27-2-2009 by solomanskey]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:36 PM
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reply to post by Mahilum
 


his name is not even lucifer. if you want to claim something like that than you better know the subject well... i mean, his real name in the hebrew is Hallel (although some have suggested this to be title). his other name is HaSatan.

and may i suggest the best book on freemasonry EVER:
duncans ritual of free masonry.

it is a handbook for those who become masons. it reeals many of the rituals and handshakes and stuff. i wouldnt suggest it if you are not thinking about joining however, because it is really dull if you dont understand the teachings and stuff.

i had a question about why freeemasonry IS so secret?

also i talked to a mason and he told me some realy cool stuff: how can you communicate in a totally dark room? what is the secret language? why is the eastern direction so important?



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:39 PM
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Ok, once again, Satan is not Lucifer. Just thought that would be good to put in here. Lucifer was a Babylonian king.
en.wikipedia.org...

Also, many elements of Christ are used, but no specific god is attached to Masonry. Sounds kinda like taking the best to promote your own thing.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by Jim Scott]



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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hello. i came across a symbol i saw as someone's tattoo. its a crown with a sword going straight down through it. i thought maybe it was a knights templar symbol, but i have never seen one where the sword is vertical and pointing down. i was wondering if you knew if it is actually a knights templar symbol, or something different?



posted on Mar, 2 2011 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by evemoonshadow
hello. i came across a symbol i saw as someone's tattoo. its a crown with a sword going straight down through it. i thought maybe it was a knights templar symbol, but i have never seen one where the sword is vertical and pointing down. i was wondering if you knew if it is actually a knights templar symbol, or something different?


The Templar symbol is that of a Latin cross going diagonally through a crown.





posted on Nov, 29 2011 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Real or fake.

See video and pay close attention to video at 36:43 onward.................there are many levels and many deceptions. The real Masons are few and far between.



"Ask away"..............to me, in my own humble opinion sounds pompous.





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