'U.S. Destabilizes Iran via Terror Group'

Originally posted by Grambler
I'll do it. You claimed that supporting the Mujahideen (which is the Taliban) in the late 80's was the right thing to do because we needed to stop the Soviets from invading, but according to the National Security Adviser Brizenki we purposefully started arming and supporting them BEFORE the Soviets invaded, and we did so to goad the Soviets into a war.

Of course it was the right thing to do. How was I wrong because we did need to stop the Soviets from invading A-stan. Also, I agree that preparations were underway before the actual invasion and did not state otherwise. However, to think that preparing for the invasion caused the Soviets to invade is just ludicrous.

Intelligence reports at that time showed that analysts and policymakers had significant information about the extensive military preparations being undertaken by the Soviet regions bordering Afghanistan.

There are also Soviet documents which show their plans for invading started at least 9 months before the actual invasion. So again, its totally insane to believe that because the U.S. was preparing for the invasion that somehow that caused the invasion.

Link to source

So again, neither was I giving out false info nor proven wrong in any way.

You also claim that it is not the US fault they turned to radical Islam, but you are wrong because they were already radical Islamists, and that is exactly why we chose them.

I could have worded that better, I admit, because they were already radical but my point still holds that the U.S did NOT turn them into a radical islamic group.

Again, neither false nor wrong. Thanks for playing.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

reply to post by WhatTheory


Ok, you cite cia.gov as to the fact that the Soviets planned to invade Afghanistan 9 months before. That may be true. However, the man in charge Brezinski, claims that 6 month prior to the invasion, we were arming and train insurgents. He also admits that the official CIA account is a fabrication, and he was the man in charge. So if the CIA lied about when we started training the Mujahideen, how can we trust them as to when the Soviets invaded. Heres the link to Brezinski's interview:

archives.econ.utah.edu...

Notice how he says we wanted the Soviets to attack. Thats the kind of sick people that run our government, they love war as long as it furthers their goals. Instead of trying negotiation or something with the Soviets, we intentionally goaded them into a war.

Also note how this guy says that Radical Islam isn't a threat. Ha. How funny is that! He is saying in the late 90's that anyone who thinks that it is is a moron. Kind of goes further to showing that maybe we were lied to on 9-11 (but thats off topic)

You still think it was worth it? For all we know, the Soviets maybe wouldn't have even attacked Afghanistan if it wasn't for us. But giving you the benefit of the doubt even if they would of, do you think that attack would have been worse than what has happened because we propped up these terrorists.

We have the 9-11 attacks, which killed around 2,800 people.

The people given life threatening illnesses during the 9-11 cleanup, around 50,000

The war in Afghanistan has claimed somewhere between 4000 to 8000 civilians, and over 400 troops and is rapidly rising

The war in Iraq has claimed 4432 coalition deaths, and around 90,000 civilian deaths, both numbers still growing.

Aside from these deaths, many more people have been seriously wounded.

Trillions of dollars have been spent in all of the war on terror.

The welfare of the people in Iraq and especially Afghanistan is horrible.

Countless laws have been passed which infringe on peoples freedoms (rather rightly or wrongly doesn't matter)

And the war on terror still rages on, and has no end in the foreseeable future.

All of this is a direct result of the US funding and training Bin Laden and his bunch. You say the US didn't turn them to radical Islam, but we did give them the training and power to rule Afghanistan, and thereby stage terrorists attacks.

So you honestly think that the supposed Soviet invasion of Afghanistan (which happened any way btw) would have been worse than this? If so, I think you are highly delusional. As long as the US fund terrorists to do its dirty work, the war on terror will never end.

Hold on a sec - we've got generals in Iraq who are saying that Iran is supplying munitions and arms to Iraqi insurgents, undermining the war effort, and the majority of you scoff at that very idea.

Yet when Tehran issues a statement saying the U.S. is bullying them by using terrorist tactics (something we've never been known to do before) you actually believe them???

When the hell did you people become so biased against your own country that you would believe them over us???

reply to post by sos37


Well, I was specifically arguing with whattheory who assumed that the story was true and was happy about it.

I'm not sure the story is true, but I will say it is very probable. In the example I've been posting about Afghanistan, the CIA has admitted to training insurgents to topple a government. We also did it in the Bay of Pigs, and countless other situations. Its not that uncommon at all.

Does this prove that we are doing it in this situation? No. But without a doubt the US past tendency to do this will allow the people of Iran to believe it, which is yet another reason why this is a horrible policy.

reply to post by sos37



Hello sos37

In response to your question
Do you really need me to quote so many previous presidents like JFK warned against your country going against you.

So or later it's time to realize that being patriotic is pro-people, not pro-govt. Because while you may defend them at times, they don't give two #s about you.

reply to post by Grambler

Originally posted by Grambler


I'll do it. You claimed that supporting the Mujahideen (which is the Taliban) in the late 80's was the right thing to do because we needed to stop the Soviets from invading, but according to the National Security Adviser Brizenki we purposefully started arming and supporting them BEFORE the Soviets invaded, and we did so to goad the Soviets into a war.

The Soviets have a long history of military conflict with Afghanistan, dating back to the 19th century and even before.

The Afghan gov't (PDPA) actually asked for the Soviets to send troops and aid to them to help them fight off the muhajideen. This was spring, 1978.

Don't ask for links, look it up. Google is your friend.

reply to post by jsobecky


Your right. But that still doesn't address the fact that the Soviets didn't send troops (in this particular conflict) until the US had already been training Mujihideen for 6 months. The fact that the Afghan government viewed the Mujihideen as terrorist, and asked the Soviets for help proves that the US was supporting a terrorist organization to take the place of the government of Afghanistan. Only with our help was the Taliban able to get enough power to gain control, and thereby become the terrorists that they are to day (supposedly).

Brezinski even said that the CIA wasn't sure if the Soviets would attack, thats why we goaded them into it. We did the EXACT same thing the Soviets did in Vietnam. Our government was willing to fight a war in Vietnam because of how evil the Soviets were, yet we did the exact same thing years later and claim it was justified.

This is how disgusting the people running our country are. Yet despite all of this, there are those that will insist the US is never wrong when it comes to going to war, and will blindly listen to anything the government says. I would be funny if it wasn't so frightening.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
The fact still remains Israel is there legally and fought the arabs. Israel won and know it's their land. Get over it!

Let us play What If.

What if Iran invaded your country and won. You would have to just get over it huh? You would not feel bad about it because it is what civilisations have done since the beginning of time. In fact, I am sure you would enjoy praying to Allah five times a day, because it is what we have done for millenia.

America would be Iranian land and you would be happy knowing that it is what has always happened, according to your arguments.

Right, I guess we said screw everyone when how many times in the past have we saved peoples and countries from being conquered and killed?

And how many times has America let things just happen as there was no incentive to America to intervene? Unless there is something in it for America, you stay out.

Out of the 42 current world conflicts, the US is intervening in 4 of them (You guys are just heavenly angels, just helping out all those poor innocents). Out of those 4, America started 2 of them. One has been ongoing since 1898 and the other due to strategic considerations.

Can you name those conflicts?