The buck doesn't stop here; it just keeps falling

reply to post by Pinktip

Can some explain the scenario of flooding the world market with oil to collapse the dollar?

Supply and demand. Flooding the market with cheap oil traded in another currency would be a two-fold attack against the Dollar. First, the overall value of oil would slip, with plenty of it being available. That means that if oil isn't worth as much, neither is the Dollar. Second, being able to buy oil in another currency would remove the demand for actual Dollars, and push the currency towards becoming obsolete.



[edit on 7/7/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

Scary way to put it, but I can't say that you are wrong.

I'm a realist.

reply to post by jackinthebox


according to Comptroller General David Walker , the US empire , is according to possibly collapse like Rome in a matter of time

reply to post by manson_322


That's a "near-sighted" take on the situation really. The "Empire" will emerge like a Phoenix from the impending disaster. The people will demand it, and fall in line behind a strong leader who makes them "feel safe." Step one, crash the Dollar, and leave the people gasping to survive, so that the Amero cannot be refused. It will be welcomed like a cold glass of water in the Mojave.

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to ]

 

according to Comptroller General David Walker , the US empire , is according to possibly collapse like Rome in a matter of time

Dude, you keep saying that, why don't you come up with some actual facts to back up your kindergarten statements...... by the way what country do you take up space in?

[edit on 7-7-2008 by 38181]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar

 

This actually has nothing to do with stopping Iran's nuclear ambitions. It is all about stopping Iranian oil from hitting the interntional market. Look what we did to Iraq when Saddam refused to buy American debt and trade his oil in Dollars.
[edit on 7/6/0808 by jackinthebox]

I believe this to be true.. I have always said the war in Iraq was more then just "oil" .. though it played it's part.. I firmly believe the war in Iraq was a last resort to save our economy.. I don't think it worked. Well, it did. For a while. What are we to do now?

I would rather fight and die in a desert to grant my children and everyone else's children in America the same right to grow up in a happy, peaceful nation like I did..

I would gladly assault the world to keep our way of life..

I hope our government and our people realize this to.. self preservation, above all us, is a must!

go ahead ,american imperialist and this will insure the total destruction of the american empire economic system ... go ahead attack Iran , and do another favour attack Russia at the same time . Russia will give your nation a swift and painful death by vapourising your nation with nuclear missiles

I would gladly assault the world to keep our way of life..

and the poor of the nations that would be assaulted , would gladly assure your death , just like how 4000+ of your bloodthirsty soldiers were killed by the resistance forces in Iraq

I believe this to be true.. I have always said the war in Iraq was more then just "oil" .. though it played it's part.. I firmly believe the war in Iraq was a last resort to save our economy.. I don't think it worked. Well, it did. For a while. What are we to do now?

BS, chinese ,Japanese and Saudis provided your economy, enough support by funding your public debt

I would rather fight and die in a desert to grant my children and everyone else's children in America the same right to grow up in a happy, peaceful nation like I did..

then please go and enlist in the US army , rather than making rants

reply to post by manson_322


The Roman Empire never collapsed.

edited.. /rant off

Ive been watching alot of small bizz close their doors in maryland or just simply fire everyone but them. most of which were construction related mind you.

And the job market surely isnt what it used to be . thats to say the least.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by Trance Optic]

Originally posted by 38181

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by jackinthebox

 

according to Comptroller General David Walker , the US empire , is according to possibly collapse like Rome in a matter of time

Dude, you keep saying that, why don't you come up with some actual facts to back up your kindergarten statements...... by the way what country do you take up space in?

lol, next time don't spout nonsense and BS...

Learn from the fall of Rome, US warned

The US government is on a “burning platform” of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare underfunding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon, the country’s top government inspector has warned.

David Walker, comptroller general of the US, issued the unusually downbeat assessment of his country’s future in a report that lays out what he called “chilling long-term simulations”.


These include “dramatic” tax rises, slashed government services and the large-scale dumping by foreign governments of holdings of US debt.

Drawing parallels with the end of the Roman empire, Mr Walker warned there were “striking similarities” between America’s current situation and the factors that brought down Rome, including “declining moral values and political civility at home, an over-confident and over-extended military in foreign lands and fiscal irresponsibility by the central government”.

“Sound familiar?” Mr Walker said. “In my view, it’s time to learn from history and take steps to ensure the American Republic is the first to stand the test of time.”

Mr Walker’s views carry weight because he is a non-partisan figure in charge of the Government Accountability Office, often described as the investigative arm of the US Congress.
www.ft.com...

reply to post by manson_322


You are ignoring the fact that we are still a Republic. Granted, imperialist tendencies and internal decay are prevelant, but these will only be turned to fuel the metamorphises to outright Empire, the likes of which the world has never known.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by manson_322

 

You are ignoring the fact that we are still a Republic. Granted, imperialist tendencies and internal decay are prevelant, but these will only be turned to fuel the metamorphises to outright Empire, the likes of which the world has never known.

well, a Republic democracy by name, but it in actual a corporate fascist plutocracy .....

Okay, both of you simmer.

Yes, the US calls itself a republic, and a democracy, and no, it's no longer either of those.

However, the US isn't going to simply die off.
The rest of the world is poised and ready to buy them out... basically, as the US dollar reaches 0, the United States will come under new ownership... that of the rest of the world.

As for it's policies and government, I really don't know what will happen to that.

But the US as it stands now is about to crumble, but there will still be a foundation there for the rest of the world to build something else on.

Thats the interesting part about the world economy. Eventually, your country is no longer yours. It belongs to the highest bidder.

Originally posted by jackinthebox

How do you weaken the dollar then? Flood the market with cheaper oil traded in a different currency.

The easiest way to devalue a currency is to print more of it. Get more of it into circulation and its value decreases. The more money in circulation is the true meaning of inflation and has nothing to do with rising prices.

Rising prices are to do with the stock markets and the like. A single small rumour can blow prices to rock bottom or sky high within hours of the rumour spreading.

A war in an oil rich country will give the markets a boost. To the ordinary citizen, this boost is not beneficial due to the prices at the pump, but those who do the buying and selling of an owned stock are the winners (including the bankers and governments)

So what's going on with the dollar and oil prices? Please if you get a few minutes, check my thread, Iraq pays debt with $360m dollars - cash As I've gone a bit deeper into a possible cause of all this.

Basically, the US government has deliberately devalued the dollar by forcing the fed reserve to print more money. This may have been achieved by two methods. First method is to ask for billions of dollars to fund the 'war on terrorism'...and keep asking for more. They have literally bled the country dry and spent all this money in securing the Iraqi oil fields, building a super-sized re-inforced embassy and many military installations inside Iraq. What they've really done is moved all these billions to Iraq, devaluing th dollar and the fed has to print more, devaluing it further.

Second method is to get the markets to have a nervous flutter over oil (this is caused by a war in an oil rich country), next, you use some propganda and scare mongering to worry the world about oil stocks whilst your building and securing Iraqi oil fields.

The US governments friendly Saud Arabians then step in (after the price has risen a bit) and offer to produce 200,000 more barrels a day, but the world asks for 1.5 million barrels a day to reduce oil prices.

But where is this shortage? where are the queues at petrol stations? where is the panic buying?

How has Iraq paid $360 million in cash to Bulgaria?

In my thinking, this can only be achieved by Iraq selling oil, PRIVATELY, behind everyones back, at todays increased prices. That's why Saudi Arabia will not increase output. That's why Iraq just had a $7bn debt wiped clean. That's why America does not want to leave Iraq.

A further war with Iran will push up oil prices even further. Iraq will get richer as it continues to secretly sell its oil.

Again, my thread has further details on the payment Iraq has just made to Bulgaria and more thoughts on this process.

reply to post by manson_322


America cannot "go the way Rome did" in the sense your thinking.. simply because the dynamics of the game has changed. For one, America houses amazing military force. Unlike what you believe, money does not make the World go round, Power does. If America went bankrupt today, will the soldiers lay their arms down and struggle home? .. Will the average American simply say "DOH! .. guess I'll start begging for food" .. go work in a sweat shop making toys for China..

Hell no. They would unleash the might of the American economy and military on the World.. because no people ever succumb to another people without a show of resistance.

If America falls, so will to the World fall with her.

By the way, fascism can be both Conservative and Liberal. And all societies are Plutocracies.

The Republic also died a long time ago, the autonomous states remain simply because of the rule in Governing which is Distance. Without the autonomous states governing individual peoples, the further away a people sit from the house of Power, the more likely to rebel. To have the Governments of the states compensate the people knowing they do nothing and the public servants ensure their connection in the Union, no distance strain remains.. think of it as a modern Feudalism of sorts.. which served the Kings quite well..

I know you WANT America to fall .. but if you hate Iraq, then pray America doesn't .. I can assure you .. it will be the most frightening time in history to live.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Wrong we are no longer a republic... A republic is supposed to represent the people.. Instead it represents the corporations.. We are more of a facsist dictatorship... Check out my old thread.

reply to post by Rockpuck


You are right on the fact that we are no longer a republic.. However you forget that our military might is built on our economy.. If our economy falls.. how do you think we will maintain, feed and supply our soldiers? Just print more money? The roman empires military might was amazing for its time to say the least.. but why did the Roman Empire fall? it's not because the military failed it was due to corruption from inside and having an overextended military.Also the endless bickering and fighting between senators ..and the extreme taxation of the people, lack of goverment services.. etc.. In the end the Roman empire fell apart from within, which then allowed forces outside to easily take over territory.. Even in our own military there are factions arguing for an Iran invasion and againts.. Nothing is cohesive anymore.. I do not want our nation to fall, however our politicians have done nothing but help themselves and there rich corporate freinds. This will be the undoing of this once great nation.Look around you.. Are people really happy with this country? Cost of living is skyrocketing, people are losing jobs left and right, People losing homes, its really bad... Now why would these people fight for a goverment that has failed them? Just look at recruitment levels.. Even if they institute a draft, I think we would be smarter this time, I think we would rather go to a brig then fight a war for the corporate elite... This is who we are fighting for we are no longer fighting for this nation. Just remember when Tim Russert asked Bush, Is this a war of choice or this a war of neccesity? How did Bush answer "Can you repeat the question again".........

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I believe this to be true.. I have always said the war in Iraq was more then just "oil" .. though it played it's part.. I firmly believe the war in Iraq was a last resort to save our economy.. I don't think it worked. Well, it did. For a while. What are we to do now?I would rather fight and die in a desert to grant my children and everyone else's children in America the same right to grow up in a happy, peaceful nation like I did..

I would gladly assault the world to keep our way of life..

I hope our government and our people realize this to.. self preservation, above all us, is a must!

So you would rather kill other peoples children, and family to stop your country from collapsing. You would sacrifice thousands , millions of others lives, to preserve your "way of life" . pathetic . Not to mention the how long do you think the US government can get away to resorting to these kind of actions before other countries intervene... this is basically what we call world war III . The united states of America ( THE FIGHTERS OF FREEDOM AND DESTROYING THOU EVIL COUNTRIES WHO DO NOT GIVE LAND AND RESOURCES TO US. THE GOOD SIDE!!)AKA germany 1939 vs the World. Irregardless whoever wins, your whole bloodline will most likely be destroyed, and hundreds of millions will die. just to preserve your way of life. Fast food, nice cars, plasma tvs and other garbage.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by aLinkToThePast]

[edit on 7-7-2008 by aLinkToThePast]

reply to post by manson_322

well, a Republic democracy by name, but it in actual a corporate fascist plutocracy .....

Well, I can't say I really disagree with you there, but we who recognize that we are no longer a republic, are still in the minority. When it is obvious to all, the transition will be complete, as will be our "journey toward the Dark Side." Sort of like when Emporer Palpatine finally dissolved the Senate, and the "last vestiges of the Old Republic" were "swept away."



[edit on 7/7/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply to post by Rockpuck


Your missing one more thing, how patriotic do you think the romans were compared to americans modern day.... You really think that millions of americans will willingly goto war with the world because of money, or you think that your brothers are stupid enough to believe in more propaganda...not nice. Majority of americans are good people, laid back who wouldn't take part in a major world war by choice. The government is already pissing soldiers off by renewing their contracts because of the lack of people willing to goto iraq and afghanistan. You Think people will be down to there local recruiter if Global War happens, for a war their own government started. The soldiers today are not the same as they used to be, they would have to institute a major draft, which would in itself cause the country to collapse. The only other choice would be for america to use nuclear weapons which clearly would show The United States True colors.

reply to post by aLinkToThePast

You Think people will be down to there local recruiter if Global War happens, for a war their own government started.

I certainly believe that to be the case. Look how easy it was for Bush to drum up support for a bull# invasion of Iraq. Not to mention the fact that under such dire circumstances, even I would be down at the recruiting station, and I see through the BS propoganda.

And fo course, look at what history has taught us. Nazi patriotism was nearly absolute, while their leader led them into annihilation.