Are Catholics Christian?

Might I suggest they're all splinters off the same tree? It's well known and accepted that most if not all of the mainstream religions based themselves loosely on pagan beliefs, and did so in an attempt to usurp and redirect the allegiances of the superstitious masses.

Acharya S has written some great books that no doubt many here will ahve already read, The Christ Conspiracy being one of the best.

Octopussassin
www.nuganhand.wordpress.com

Originally posted by Robhaidheuch
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

...but anyone who eats this bread will live forever.
After hearing it, many of his followers said, 'This is intolerable language. How could anyone accept it?'
He went on, 'This is why I told you that no one could come to me except by the gift of the Father'
After this, many of his disciples went away and accompanied him no more.
Then Jesus said to the Twelve, 'What about you, do you want to go away too?

The answer is right there, in your quote. "...no one could come to me except by the gift of the Father" People who are not going to believe in Jesus, anyway, and do not have a true faith that comes from God, are not going to understand what he is saying.

Catholics don't pray to saints in the traditional sense - its more to ask them for help in gaining forgiveness for sins, ask them to help protect against Evil and the work of the Devil and thank them for their efforts.

The traditional defense of this practice. However, the word 'pray' is an oly English word that means to 'ask'. You are saying that you are not asking for help, but are praying for intersession with God? From those who, according to the Bible, 'know nothing' until they are resurrected? With the exception of those who were resurrected when Christ was.
And worshiping Idols

The crucifix is not worshipped, its the person that is on it that is worshipped...ie Jesus. To Catholics, the crucifix represents Jesus, his struggle and death for anyone who believes.
As with statues of the Virgin Mary, they are not worshipped, they are there as a reminder to live a good life.

Again, definition. Worship; to declare the worth-ship of someone or something. Many are bowing down to, giving gifts at, and praying in the direction, same as other idol worshippers. So if a Buddhist states he does not really think that rock is a god, is he not really an idolator? He is just using it to represent some other thing, to help him focus. Neither of you is doing anything different. Proof is in the pudding. Have you ever been to Europe? They consider the U.S. to be a prodigal son. There, they have little 'graven images' supposedly of 'saints' by the road sides, all over. And people bring gifts to that 'saint', just like they used to in ancient Rome, to all the idols. Same practice, different excuse. I don't buy it.

The Pope

This is also an issue that a lot of non-catholics seem to have all wrong. The pope is not our connection to God. He's just a religious leader, borne of a democratic vote by cardinals. He gives his views on how we should live morally (as any religious leader does) and we personally choose whether we agree or not.

Wrong! By official Catholic doctrine, the Pope is the Vicarious Filli Dei, the vice-regent of the Son of God. He is the ONLY one with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, even tho the Bible is clear that ALL people who accept God's offered forgiveness through Jesus death for us, are immediately indwelt, and have become adopted Sons of God. That is why you have death-bed confessions; if you don't, you lose, and you can not be saved. Noone living, except the pope, is actually 'saved'. Yes, a vote by the cardinals, and most of them are members of Opus Dei, an athiest group of Catholic priests, and higher. He gives views, but when he speaks officially, it is supposed to be right from God. Ex Cathedra, I think, if I recall.


Unfortunately the true origins of the Catholic church will probably never be revealed, personally i believe that is stemmed from Rome to promote peace, profit and power and even though our religious leaders have profusely apologized for past behavior, that past will always be there. But to Catholics, the origin is not important, its the spirituality. Like with any religion, but our is based on the Idea that Christ died for us, that we should follow his teachings and that we owe him.

So yes, I believe that when it comes down to it, Catholics are extremely Christian (with a lot of the unnecessary Frills that follow organized religion)

I recall reading in the official works from the Vatican, and I don't recall what exactly it is called, but that the Pope did NOT want Catholics to call themselves 'Christian', but CATHOLIC. He stressed that there is a big difference, and that Catholics should be proud to make the distinction. That is official Catholic doctrine that you are messing with. Aside from normal usage as Catholicism being a Christian religion. It is actually a blend of Roman paganism, with the new religion taking over in Rome, that threatened the Roman Emperor, Constantine. He even started a legend; 'In Hoc Signo Winces'. Some don't even think he was a Believer in Christ. No evidence he was. 'Do not blend Holy with Unholy'. And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life. And this life is in his Son. He who has the Son, has the life. He who does not have the Son of God, does not have the life'. No mention of any churches at all.

gregarious, I have no idea where you learned your catholic theology but you have some very incorrect views on the pope and what a 'doctrine' is. Anyone that has a question about the catholic faith should refer to the catechism of the church, which answers 95% of all the questions people have raised. It's written by theologians and gives reasons and explanations of all catholic teachings and beliefs. Disagree with it or not, at least you'll hear an accurate account of catholic beliefs.

The internet isn't a good source for knowledge and a poor place of discussion.

I think a lot of people don't consider the difference between a Christian and a Catholic. One is a religion and the other is of a person (Christ). I am a Christian, but I am not a Catholic. However, I know Catholics who are Christians. To be a Christian, one has to first accept Christ as both Lord and Savior, secondly, have faith in that confession, and thirdly follow Christ through His example and through His teachings. To be a Catholic, one has to have faith in church doctrine. While teachings of Christ may be in it, it is not exclusively Christ teaching alone but Christ plus church doctrine. One can go though their whole life in religion and never be a Christian even though they are surrounded with things about Christ.

I make no attempt to judge a person who may be religious that also claims to be a Christian. I am not a judge. But I hope my explaination helps anyone out there who is wondering what the difference is.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Fromabove]

Originally posted by Fromabove
I think a lot of people don't consider the difference between a Christian and a Catholic. One is a religion and the other is of a person (Christ). I am a Christian, but I am not a Catholic. However, I know Catholics who are Christians. To be a Christian, one has to first accept Christ as both Lord and Savior, secondly, have faith in that confession, and thirdly follow Christ through His example and through His teachings. To be a Catholic, one has to have faith in church doctrine. While teachings of Christ may be in it, it is not exclusively Christ teaching alone but Christ plus church doctrine. One can go though their whole life in religion and never be a Christian even though they are surrounded with things about Christ.

I make no attempt to judge a person who may be religious that also claims to be a Christian. I am not a judge. But I hope my explaination helps anyone out there who is wondering what the difference is.

[edit on 21-10-2008 by Fromabove]

>>>An excellent viewpoint on this issue.
Please let me just add this one thought: THE TRUE BODY OF CHRIST is *not* an organization; it is AN ETERNAL, SPIRIT-born ORGANISM, who Head Is Christ. - all those who have received Christ (in truth and sincerity) as The SAVIOUREDEEMER of the world are Christians.

Christians may be part of a religious-structure/organization,
but many religionists are NOT truly Spirit-born Christians.

ALL Christians are new creations in Christ. - they are *indwelt* by THE SPIRIT of THE LIVING GOD, ... and in their daily life: IT SHOWS.
BIGTIME.

Christ did NOT "found a religious-institution." ... HE STARTED A LIVING ORGANISM, indwelt by His Spirit, in Heaven and on earth: that abides in His Word and Presence. - they are "the called-out ones." - the members of HIS Mystical [Universal] Body. - and they acknowledge Him as both Saviour and LORD of their life and soul. - truth is: a true Christian OWES JESUS EVERYTHING, ... and they know it.

reply to post by VIKINGANT


When you are a christian, you believe in what Christ says. Christ built a Church and it is the Catholic Church with His apostles. He gave them the power to forgive sins Jn20,23 and He gave them autorithy Mt16,18. The Catholic Church compiled and canonized the Bible you have today... Christ said to Peter the first Pope : "You are Peter (which means rock), and upon this rock I will build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it".

reply to post by VIKINGANT

Of course they are! Most of the fundamentalist myths about Catholicism are based on ignorance (I am being kind here!).
It's not pagan, false, based on traditions of men or any of the rest of that ruibbish.
What matters is how they behave, and I have seen a lot more love, joy and peace from Catholics than from fundamentalists, especially Calvinists!
Vicky