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Instead of "How art thou fallen from heaven, O LUCIFER..." the nasb and niv have: "How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR..."
There are several problems with the translation "O morning star", but first let me point out that if you look at the multitude of Bible commentaries there are as many opinions, as to who or what is being referred to, as there are bible versions. Some believe this passage refers to the king of Babylon, whom many identify as king Nebuchadnezzar, others believe it refers to Belshazzar, and still others as the kingdom of Babylon itself and not to any specific king. Many others see Isaiah 14:12 as referring to the spiritual power behind the king and kingdom of Babylon. The "facts" are that there is little agreement among the so called scholars as to who or what is addressed in this passage, let alone how to translate it.
The problem with the MORNING STAR of the niv, nasb and nkjv footnote is that the words morning and star are not found here in any Hebrew text. Morning is # 1242 boker and star is #3556 kokawb. The word for star is found in the very next verse of 13 where it says: "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God." The two words, morning and star, are found together in Job 38:7 where God is asking Job in verse 4 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?... When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" This seems to be a reference to the angles who rejoiced at God's creation.
Originally posted by gambon
reply to post by Icarus Rising
They knew very well that 2 Peter 1:19 refers without doubt to Jesus Christ. This verse calls Jesus Christ "Phosphoros" (in Greek) or "Lucifer" (in Latin). Yet the translators have hidden this fact behind the words "day star." The facts are that "Phosphoros" has absolutely nothing to do with either "day" or "star"! The translators simply borrowed a term that is elsewhere used for Christ--namely "morning star" in Revelation 2:28 (Greek = proinos + aster) and in Revelation 22:16 (Greek = orthrinos + aster).
To translate "phosphoros" as "day star" is plain dishonesty!!!"
Originally posted by Shadowflux
Apparently at least some of the caged victims were willing victims up until the point they were beaten. This gets weirder and weirder and less believable by the minute.
Can any of you tell me about any ritual where someone would voluntarily be caged up in a basement? I fail to see that as ritualistic at all, just weird.
Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Go read some LaVey and come back and honestly say that Satanists are horrible, horrible demons who have no values or morals. Dare ya.
[edit on 7/5/2008 by ravenshadow13]
11 The house of the wicked shall be overthrown: but the tabernacle of the upright shall flourish.
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
According to the warrant, Johnson and Craig described themselves as teachers of the Order of the Morning Star. The male victim went to live with the couple in November 2007, the female victim a month later.
We are simply an internationally-connected group of individuals, amoral and ambitious, seeking to improve our sphere of power and namenclature.