Obama and the Socialist Ideal

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posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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First people, PLEASE NO MUD SLINGING...

Stick to factual, relevant material.. PLEASE...

For those that think Obama will "Change" America, I believe you are correct.

He will change her into a Socialist state if he has his way.

Meet Obama





And finally



This man will bring destruction to the economy which he obviously does not understand), the middle class, the Stock Market, Americas Defense and our country as a whole..

PLEASE watch these videos and listen to the messages...

Semper




posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:17 AM
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So obama is a Socialist because the media says so



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:21 AM
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reply to post by aboveandbeyond94
 


The Videos clearly and succinctly show Obama's own statements...

They were put up exactly for that purpose...

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 04:55 AM
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With Obama as president this nation will be destroyed, quite literally. With this economy we have now, it just cannot support socialism at all.

Sure, Socialism sounds good, steal from the rich, give to the poor and needy. But we can't steal that money any longer... the economy is just too weak. Our debt is too high. Obama wants to make this money out of thin air and give it to the poor. It will make our debt more than quadruple, our currency useless, and out nation bankrupt. A bankrupt nation cannot function.

Sure, we are a powerful superpower. You know what, so was the Roman empire, the Greek empire, the Russian empire... But all empires fall eventually. And how did all those empires fall? When the currency was destroyed and worth nothing.

With the fragile state our economy is in right now, the socialistic plans that Obama (or Hilary for that matter) wants to implement will push us into the great depression v2.0. Just this time, we won't make it out alive.

Abortion, Gay Marriage, forget those issues. Will it really matter if you can or can't abort your baby or get married to another man if you don't even have a country to do it in any way!? I find it quite hilarious that people decide to vote for a candidate based on these petty issues, when there are much more important things like the economy.

After all, no economy = no USA. No USA = it doesn't matter if you can abort your baby, because with the USA in shambles you won't be having a baby any way, or a house, food and clothing for that matter.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by OrangeAlarmClock]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 05:02 AM
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Originally posted by aboveandbeyond94
So obama is a Socialist because the media says so


...

Look, I'm against the media and their lies, but Obama IS a socialist. Hillary Clinton is too. That's why she calls her healthcare plans "socialized medicine" and why Obama has referred to himself as a socialist several times. You can go right on his website and look at where he stands on the issues and the plans he wants to implement, and you will see it falls right in line with socialism.

Socialism isn't evil or anything. In some cases it could actually be a good idea. It's just not what we need right now, and with the current state that our economy is in, the United States will finally, unfortunately, be destroyed. If not and we get lucky, at the very least we will cease to be the lone superpower in the world and will probably slink down to second-world nation status.

If Obama or Hillary get elected, I suggest moving to Canada ASAP. Not because I'm one of those weirdos that say move to Canada as a form of protest (like those celebs that said they would move if Bush got reelected), no rather I'm telling you to move because after Obama or Hillary gets elected you will no longer have a house and will be drinking water and eating bread. A poor country is not a good one to live in.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
He will change her into a Socialist state if he has his way.


THAT is mud-slinging.
It's right-wing fear mongering. We're done with that. STOPLEFTIES.COM????



This man will bring destruction to the economy which he obviously does not understand),


If you want me to watch your propaganda, using terribly biased and opinionated fear tactics is NOT the way to get me to watch. Are Obama supporters supposed to watch this with an open mind after that intro?

[edit on 29-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


It's not really fear mongering or propaganda, or at least what I said. Anyone who understands economics knows that when a nation is struggling financially (like ours is right now) socialism will push it over the edge and kill it.

Socialism like Obama proposes is a great idea for countries that are doing very well economically - but right now, we just can't afford it. Our economy is already crippled, many financial experts are saying we are on our way to the next great depression. If we aren't, Obama's socialism plans will be the nail in the coffin.

And unlike the last great depression, we won't have a world war effort to bolster our economy and get us out of it.

Obama's plans would have been good 12 years ago, don't get me wrong. Who doesn't want to help the poor out? But right now, we simply can't afford it. Gasoline is at record prices, the housing bubble is putting people out of homes, many people are struggling to find a job above minimum wage, the value of our dollar is at all time lows and the outlook is bleak - and Obama wants to take trillions of our dollars and use it to give poor people health care and send aid to Africa?

That is just simply not a wise idea.

Right now we desperately need a fiscal conservative to save this country. More brainless spending WILL see the destruction of this great nation, just as devaluation of the currency has destroyed all past empires.

Sadly, both Obama AND McCain are fiscal liberals that want to spend, spend, spend us into debt and destruction. The most viable third party that has a chance is Bob Barr, who is very fiscally conservative, but i'll admit it's not likely he is going to win. Chuck Baldwin is another good choice, but he is even less popular. But I'll probably be voting for him unless Ron Paul announces an independent run.

no vote is a wasted vote.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by semperfortis
He will change her into a Socialist state if he has his way.


THAT is mud-slinging.
It's right-wing fear mongering. ...


To fight the liberal presentation of the normalisation of radical leftism is NOT mud-slinging. What you are attempting is to hijack and disregard the warning this post illustrates.

To elect anybody with Obamas views is to elect a man so far removed from the proven ideals that launched Americas success as to actually be opposed to the American way of life!

[edit on 29-6-2008 by Gatordone]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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OrangeAlarmClock, my response was to Semper, not you. Sorry if there was any confusion.



Originally posted by OrangeAlarmClock
If Obama or Hillary get elected, I suggest moving to Canada ASAP.


You do realize Canada has socialized medical care, don't you?

Here's the thing (and this is to everyone reading). I don't want Socialism either. But as it is, the insurance industry AND the medical care industry are taking extreme advantage of people. They are WAY too expensive for most people to pay on their own. There needs to be a way that the average person AND poor people can either afford medical care or afford insurance. BOTH of them are out of reach for far too many people.

A couple years ago, we lost our insurance. I had to have surgery. Fortunately, we could afford to pay for it. But many people in the US today are living from paycheck to paycheck because of the economy. Whether you see it or not, the economy sucks. Gas, groceries, clothes, everything is growing more and more expensive and wages are largely stagnant. This thing is coming down!

And there is a sink hole in the Middle East that ALL our money is going into. That needs to STOP.

Over 90% of the wealth is in the hands of 1% of the people. Talk about an unstable situation! Whether or not we adopt socialized medicine, this country is in big trouble. This calls for drastic change.

I'm not surprised some are fighting against this so passionately. But something needs to be done. Our country is in trouble whether it affects you personally or not. YET.

Who owns our national debt?

The way we have been operating this country... If your accountant were doing this with your money, he would be fired immediately.



The debt has grown because the national government has consistently spent more each year than it has raised through taxes. To spend more than it has, the government must borrow money. But who does it borrow it from? Who owns the national debt?


People slam Obama because he wants to raise taxes. Well the government has spent and spent and borrowed (FROM US - From our Social Security) until they can't pay it back. George Bush not been "tax and spend", he's just "Spend". He hasn't cared about the country or how much debt we're in, he just borrows it from anywhere he can and dumps it into the war.

He gives massive tax cuts to the wealthy and sends us a pittance of $600. And instead of raising our taxes, he takes it from us! From our Social Security. So we don't see it go, and we think he's the good guy for not raising our taxes! But when the time comes for us to collect our SS, it will be in Japan or blown on the war.

If he were my economist, he's be fired (and possibly in prison) and I'd be bankrupt!

Something has to change to get us back to something even close to a stable economy. Our people are suffering. Your fellow countrymen, veterans, children are suffering at the hands of a government who took everything away from them, including their jobs to fight this freaking useless war!

If you don't want socialized medicine, what so you suggest? People "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" or some other such tripe?



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 10:54 AM
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It'd be pretty difficult for one President to totally socialize the US in one or two terms. Particularly when the Feds are being forced to downsize and relinquish responsibility for a bunch of stuff they had no business treating at the federal level to begin with.

Worse case: Obama hikes taxes with the best of intentions - because there will be some very dispossesed people in the next couple years. He takes the new tax money and turns it into handouts, rather than investing it in sustainable programs or projects thst could actually develop and yield some form of tangible return. They call it deferred gratification. I don't see Obama excersising that type of generally unpopular, but, in the long run, wise approach to developing new human resources or industries. He has too many people to please.

But it will only exacerbate and prolong an overdue and inevitable "house cleaning," indictment and audit of many of our most powerful institutions.

My only concern is when the US surpluses taper off, how are we going to continue to support so many useless people?



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



Right now I'm living paycheck to paycheck, have no health insurance, actually recently injured myself on the job, thankfully the company is very good and paying for my recovery.

But I have a feeling that under Obama's plan, I'm not going to be one of the lucky individuals that receives his free health care.

Not me, the blue-collar worker that needs health care. No, under his health care plan it will be the lazy people already on welfare that sit on the couch all day will probably be the recipients. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Quite frankly I'm thinking about just quitting my job and living off welfare any way. I work 8 hours a day and have to struggle to survive, yet due to the welfare state some people can sit at home doing nothing all day and live a better life than me. Seems messed up to me.

I won't stoop to those low standards though, I'm not a leech. I will continue working to earn what is mine.


All that aside, free health care sounds great. But where is the funding from that going to come from? My taxes? If so, I would just much rather pay for health care with my own money if my taxes are going to be raised any way.

The money can't come from thin air, either way I'm going to end up paying.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 11:23 AM
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Here we go...

I was wondering when this would start...

Anything said against "my candidate" is mudslinging...

NO BH it isn't...

The videos are complete with "HIS" words, "HIS" ideas of change and "HIS" ideologies...

The first two were Glenn Beck programs clips and the second was nothing more than HIS words...

If quoting "HIM" and posting news clips about "HIM" is off limits, your definition of mudslinging has gone too far...

Just because "your" candidate is shown in a bad light does not.. NOT automatically make it mudslinging...

Now if you want "Mudslinging" you can find it easy enough here...

McCain Volunteer
and here
McCain Believes

Here you will find opinion and hate filled propaganda, and even a thread with no replies due to the nature of the thread...

My information is from reputable sources posted in a professional manner..

Sorry.... I don't sling mud...

Obama is a Socialist...

I'm sorry if that hurts you, but it is the truth...

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Glenn Beck is so friggin' right-winged, he just flies in circles.

Glenn Beck is riding this Che Guevara thing into the ground in order to push his agenda. The flag was hanging in a rented office of which was fully funded by volunteers.



On Reports of an Inappropriate Flag in a Texas Obama Office
February 12, 2008

"This is a volunteer office that is not in any way controlled by the Obama campaign. We were disappointed to see this picture because it is both offensive to many Cuban-Americans -- and Americans of all backgrounds -- and because it does not reflect Senator Obama’s views. Barack Obama has been very clear in putting forward a Cuba policy that is based on one principle: freedom for the Cuban people." -- Obama Campaign

From Houston Fox News:

"The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign." [/ext]

My next question would be when/if the flags would be coming down?

SRC: factcheck.barackobama.com...

Glenn Beck is a typical media tool that highlights things and only tells things which continually push his agenda. They might be 'truths' when he brings up quotes, but they're only half-truths.



This man will bring destruction to the economy which he obviously does not understand), the middle class, the Stock Market, Americas Defense and our country as a whole..


And I can't quite agree with you here either. McCain himself admits he doesn't know much about the economy and his last economical plan was seen as incoherent by many economists. Not to mention the ridiculous gas tax he's trying to push which only goes to show how bad he really is at it.

I also feel Obama has a better chance of helping the middle class than McCain as well, since McCain's policies are mirroring Bush's, and I think we all know how that's been thus far.

I also trust (along with many military leaders), that Obama would be better to run the country's defenses. McCain's ideas of America's Defense prolong Bush's ideas and will continue to trump our Constitutional rights.




posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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I subscribe to an online rag called "Human Events", which is nothing more than a repository for right-wing fruitcakes like Ann Coulter, Robert Novak, Newt Gingrich, Cal Thomas, Pat Buchanan, et al, to ply their barely literate paranoid ravings to an audience of unquestioning, unthinking, uneducated, uneducable, idiotic, Bible-thumping trogs across the Internet.

Why do I do this? Easy. I believe in balance. You can't read only things you agree with. If you do, you become one of them. With the exception of Ann Coulter, who really does just need a good screwing--I mean a REALLY good one, the kind she's not likely ever to get--most of these wack-jobs occasionally will pen an entire thought that is rational, reasonable, even comprehensible and might even contribute to whatever discussion they're discussin'. Occasionally.

That, of course, is only a minor reason to pay attention to the drivel that oozes from these slackjaws on a regular basis. You certainly couldn't hang your hat on it, hell you couldn't even toss a barrette up there and expect it to hold.

The best reason to subject yourself to this kind of amateurish Goebbels-worship is to keep yourself INFORMED! As a thinking, contributing member of society it is your DUTY to keep abreast of what the truly dangerous are peddling, so it doesn't sneak up on you and break down your door in the middle of the night.

Take for instance the goofy premise that Barack Obama will "change Amerika to a Socialist state if he has his way". Straight out of the Human Events manifesto. The person who would make such a statement is clearly so intellectually bankrupt and lazy that they are of no consequence, and neither are any of their blatherings. Guaranteed, they could no more define/explain Socialism than they could fly the Space Shuttle. And their familiarity with the Constitution is equally non-existent. You see, anyone who had actually READ that document--and understood it, unlike at least 5 Supreme Court Justices this week--would realize that the President simply doesn't have the requisite power(s) to make the kind of sweeping changes these knuckleheads lose so much sleep worrying about, regardless of what the Dubya/Cheney cabal believes.

My point is, as Thomas Jefferson admonished, "the price of liberty is eternal vigilance". We all must be on our toes 24/7 for this type of reactionary, knee-jerk, reflexive anti-think that is held so dear by authoritarian lap-dogs everywhere, throughout history. When you hear somebody proudly bleating half-wit bumper stickers as if they constituted actual thought, struggling mightily to "stay on message" regardless of where the conversation goes, blindly, dumbly abdicating all independence of thought, feeling, understanding, or knowledge that so many Americans have died to allow those of us alive today to exercise, know then that this person is not a "patriot". They are, in fact, the exact opposite. When you not only let other people do your thinking for you, but also believe--indeed, insist--that everyone else should be required to do the same, you're no longer an American. You might live here, but your heart sure doesn't. Hitler's Germany was full to the rafters with like-minded individuals, i.e., those who believed any challenge to an authoritarian system and/or mindset was in itself dangerous.

Here's the great thing about this country: if you want to piss away the brain God gave you, you have that right. Go for it. But you absolutely do NOT have the right to demand the same of others. And it is exactly that fact that short-circuits the already fried "minds" of those who think in bumper stickers and political sloganeering. They're just a bunch of narcissists. They truly believe everything is, and should be, about them, and they'll go to any extreme to ram that OPINION down anyone's throat. Or, as I like to put it--dumb as a stump and fightin' proud of it.

As always...carry on...



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by bigbert81
 


If you wanted more, all you had to do was ask...

There is plenty...



This is ALL OBAMA'S OWN WORDS by the way...

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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Obama is NOT a socialist...


Socialism, in it's traditional and true definition, means "the workers democratic ownership and/or control of the means of production".

Source

When I see Obama endorsing that he might be a socialist.

Socialism has nothing to do with big government, in fact in socialism no government is necessary at all, see 'libertarian socialism'.

Socialised health care is not socialism. Using that myth then the military, your water system, education, your road repair, the justice system, the medicare system, firefighters, already make the US a socialist country.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:47 PM
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Seems the members here at ATS are not the only ones that support Obama...


In this new stage, transnational corporate power as a whole could quickly emerge in bolder relief as the main obstacle to social progress. And the new task of the people’s movement would be to radically curb the power of the biggest corporations and deepen democracy further still — all of which would open new possibilities for a socialist future.

Thus, every communist should become an active participant in this electoral upsurge, if he or she hasn’t already done so. The avenues are many and the possibilities are nearly limitless.

Let’s seize the moment.

that is, they cast their vote for Obama because they liked him.

The Obama phenomenon

The surge around Obama’s candidacy, much like the larger surge in the Democratic presidential primary, has a large spontaneous quality. But what makes it different is that it has the feel of “a movement.”

Communist Party USA

My oh My Comrades, we really are in good company....

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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"Socialism", like "terrorism", is a word often used more for its emotional impact than for denotative accuracy.

Obama is labeled a 'socialist' because he wants to raise taxes? Somebody bloody well better have the guts to do so. Not even governments can endlessly spend way more money than they have available (Iraq: ~$5000/second).

Or he's labeled a 'socialist' because he 'wants to re-distribute the wealth'? Again, somebody should have the guts to say that those that benefit the most from a civilization should contribute the most to maintain it. And yes, the wealthy do contribute more, at a differential rate that does not even come close to pretending to represent the differential in wealth.

And frankly, based on results, I'd say there is a reasonable argument for drastic overhaul of the way the fundamental supports of a civilized society are managed in the US. (This would be management of food, medical and energy, without which it is difficult to build much of a civilization).

The current system in the US for each of these clearly does not work. Fuel prices were artificially suppressed for decades, now they are artificially inflated, always because somebody put personal profit ahead of the civilization.

And there is not a thing wrong with personal profit. However, it can be abused. And the trend towards maximizing short term profit at the expense of all other considerations is NOT a good thing.

It has resulted in frequent crises of food contamination somewhere, a medical system that is so screwed up that too many people don't get it when they should and then it's an emergency which is even more expensive, and an energy environment that is indescribable.

Corruption is too easy, the risks are too low and the penalties are too soft.

Something needs to change. Me, I'll take the risk that Obama might be a 'socialist'. It is clear that a McCain presidency will mean more of the same of what we have now, which is working ever so well. I'll take a bit of something different, thank you.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:53 PM
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More from our fellow Communists


"At its quarterly national committee meeting this past weekend, the Communist Party USA (CPUSA) called for a landslide in the November 4th elections to defeat John McCain and strengthening the Democratic Party majorities in Congress."

Communist Party USA


control of the means of production".


Just what do you call Government control of profits?

What exactly is your definition of a Welfare State?

If it walks like a duck.....

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by AuntieHosebag
 


If I could give you 50 stars, I would. That was an excellent post! Welcome to ATS and please post more! I'm looking forward to it!

We need to be informed of all sides of the equation. If we spend our time looking for tid-bits and stupid videos to support our position (what we already believe), that means we learn nothing!

Excellent post! IMO, that's what ATS is about.





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