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Surviving the chaos

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posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 
Yes but with no serious military backing they aren't going to be able to do anything.




IF... and thats a 'BIG' IF........ Foreign troops Actually GET HERE, I think they will have " Military Backing" to say the least.

The Question will become... HOW MUCH of my American Liberty and I willing to give up to accomidate restructuring "society".

And What Happens If I Refuse?

Especially to a Foreign Force, all be it a "Disaster Response" Force, with our Best Interests in mind.

The Guns and Food are staying. And I'm not going 'anywhere' either.

Of course, this is as bad as I can see it getting.

Anything else is much less complicated.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen




posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by Blitzkreigen
 


Disaster recovery in any terms you want to put means all hands will be necessary for the speediest recovery possible. In a large clean up usually without much help from the gov't will mean alot of folks will pitch in to forage for food stuff initially, then resources to grow your own food. You may not have a gov't per se but you will have probably a large group of cooperative tribes. Bottom line survival means keeping enough clean water, calories and good air in your body. Beyond that everything else is gravy. Even the hardest working specialist like doctors or your biofuel guy will need alot help making enough to keep up with the needs of just a few dozens of people. Restoring electrical power generation is vital to preserving food and perishable medication.

NOLA after Katrina is a perfect example of how the gov't is totally unprepared for any disaster of that size much less a nation wide chaos. Iraq is an example that high tech is virtually useless in controlling a hostile civilian population of more then say 10x times the military force. Not even the UN could muster and supply a military force of 30 million. Plus the fact most nations wouldn't send their troops to the US. As I heard from one German Army officer: "We learned our lessons from fighting against the Americans in 3 different wars. Americans have a lot of guns and know how to use them. Sending troops to the US to 'pacify the people' would be a suicide mission.



posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by crgintx
reply to post by Blitzkreigen
 


Disaster recovery in any terms you want to put means all hands will be necessary for the speediest recovery possible. In a large clean up usually without much help from the gov't will mean alot of folks will pitch in to forage for food stuff initially, then resources to grow your own food. You may not have a gov't per se but you will have probably a large group of cooperative tribes. Bottom line survival means keeping enough clean water, calories and good air in your body. Beyond that everything else is gravy. Even the hardest working specialist like doctors or your biofuel guy will need alot help making enough to keep up with the needs of just a few dozens of people. Restoring electrical power generation is vital to preserving food and perishable medication.





Yes I agree AFTER a Sit-X all this needs to happen. I do see neighbors forming together for food and security, then the town, then the next town... etc...

All this is AFTER the fact, as no one will have any other choice, or can focus on 22 inch rims, and the new CD or DVD that just came out.

Funny how thirst and hunger will motivate someone, after the fact.

I dont see a Problem "putting it all back" aftet the fact, its just Time that it takes to do it, and staying fed and watered ( And ALIVE ) in between.

Restarting the Electric grid.... well, that would be great. I'm not counting on that, but It would be Great!


BEFORE HAND.... it might get easier to find 'qualified, motivated people" as things get tougher and scarier for everyone in daily life.

But.... I personally have not been able to find anyone willing to make that effort in current times, and that wants to contribute to the work and labor or financial requirements for setting up a "Survival Plan". I can count them all on ONE Hand since the 1980's

I have a feeling people ARE waking up though, NOW.
Especially with the New Salmonella Scare in Tomatoes, Onions, Cilantro, etc...


When people get HIT where they EAT, they immediately wake up.

A LOT of Gardens went in this year, and I think thats the Most Positive thing I have seen in almost 30 years.

The Second Most Positive is that People are Starting to OPENLY discuss these issues without fear of ridicule.







NOLA after Katrina is a perfect example of how the gov't is totally unprepared for any disaster of that size much less a nation wide chaos. Iraq is an example that high tech is virtually useless in controlling a hostile civilian population of more then say 10x times the military force. Not even the UN could muster and supply a military force of 30 million. Plus the fact most nations wouldn't send their troops to the US. As I heard from one German Army officer: "We learned our lessons from fighting against the Americans in 3 different wars. Americans have a lot of guns and know how to use them. Sending troops to the US to 'pacify the people' would be a suicide mission.




I hope your right about other countries/ UN "not wanting" to send in troops.

I also cant see 12 gauge shotguns and 9 mm pistols havigng an 'effect' against air power, mechanized armor, APC's, .50 cal's, 20mm grenade Launchers, TOWS, Dragons, Hellfires, FLIR, Thermogrophy, SAT Comm, FOOD and WATER Logistic supplies etc...

Heck they will just back off and call in a Missile or Tank.

I KNOW that "Hi TEK" Works against a small group with sidearms. YOU TUBE "Iraq and FLIR" and enjoy the afternoon watching...

I also see your point about Americans having a LOT of Guns and knowing how to use them. ( And Willing to do so for their Freedom )

All I can hope is that we will become like "Little drops of Mercury" scattered about the Country, that have the Ability to "come together in a large mass" when the tables start to turn. Lets hope the US Military Steps up as well, ( Or factions therof ) and serves its COUNTRY and People.

I know on MY Street, if we all got together, it would be pretty impressive with just numbers of Patriots and only small arms. All Genders and All Ages.

Its just all gonna be AFTER the Fact from my Personal experience in looking for years for motivated folks.

Getting through that first "time frame" unorganized and hungry is the real trial. Who will be Left?

I'll keep looking though now, just to do all I can do.


Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen



posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by crgintx
reply to post by Blitzkreigen
 


Disaster recovery in any terms you want to put means all hands will be necessary for the speediest recovery possible. In a large clean up usually without much help from the gov't will mean alot of folks will pitch in to forage for food stuff initially, then resources to grow your own food. You may not have a gov't per se but you will have probably a large group of cooperative tribes. Bottom line survival means keeping enough clean water, calories and good air in your body. Beyond that everything else is gravy. Even the hardest working specialist like doctors or your biofuel guy will need alot help making enough to keep up with the needs of just a few dozens of people. Restoring electrical power generation is vital to preserving food and perishable medication.

NOLA after Katrina is a perfect example of how the gov't is totally unprepared for any disaster of that size much less a nation wide chaos. Iraq is an example that high tech is virtually useless in controlling a hostile civilian population of more then say 10x times the military force. Not even the UN could muster and supply a military force of 30 million. Plus the fact most nations wouldn't send their troops to the US. As I heard from one German Army officer: "We learned our lessons from fighting against the Americans in 3 different wars. Americans have a lot of guns and know how to use them. Sending troops to the US to 'pacify the people' would be a suicide mission.

Exactly! There are approximately 70 million gun owners in the U.S. All the nations that oppose us can not begin to muster that kind of force.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
Exactly! There are approximately 70 million gun owners in the U.S. All the nations that oppose us can not begin to muster that kind of force.


Man. I really like you, but 70 Million Gun Owners.... and that means what?

Ok, Some have 'Full Auto's' Some Have '50 Cals'...

Not Many have a LAWS ROCKET, TOW, or DRAGON.

I Bet only a Handful have acess to a Helicopter thats NOT even ARMED.

Out of that 70 Million... Half are going to 'cave in' immediately.

The other 35 Million are not Organized, and can be dealt with on a Military Level, one small group at a time, from 11 miles out.

Its GREAT to KNOW that there are 70 Million Gun Owners in America.

Mostly only small arms.

I still just dont see small arms having an effect on a Military... until you start to get some of THEIR STUFF, and then Use it wisely.


Anyway, I enjoy this thread.... keep it going...

Blitzkreigen



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by Blitzkreigen
 
How many countries have been fighting rebels for generations that started out not having the "good stuff". Take the Karen people in southeast asia, they have been fighting for independence for 50 years and you don't ever see them having tanks and stuff like that. Everytime you see pics of them, they have scavenged military rifles and the occasional RPG or grenade launcher. And they are drasticly outnumbered, and are fighting a trained military force. BUT THEY NEVER GIVE UP!



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Morrigan
its very hard to find people locally ... its hard to find people at all that think this way.

Morrigan there is an Aussie survivalists thread which needs more interest, feel free to sign on:
www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by Anuubis
 


A key part of any revolutionary or insurrectionist movement is the procurement of government arms and logistics, naturally a large group would have time to think about that.

Sadly, the larger the group, the more interested a invading or occupying force will be in doing something about it.

You need people who are aware of at the very least a mediocre understanding of what subterfuge is all about.

The sneakier, the better - that's what i say.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by Anti-Tyrant
 
And i agree totally. But you have to admit in a situation like that a group stands a better chance than an individual.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Blitzkreigen
Man. I really like you, but 70 Million Gun Owners.... and that means what?

Ok, Some have 'Full Auto's' Some Have '50 Cals'...

Not Many have a LAWS ROCKET, TOW, or DRAGON.

I Bet only a Handful have acess to a Helicopter thats NOT even ARMED.

Out of that 70 Million... Half are going to 'cave in' immediately.

The other 35 Million are not Organized, and can be dealt with on a Military Level, one small group at a time, from 11 miles out.

Its GREAT to KNOW that there are 70 Million Gun Owners in America.

Mostly only small arms.

I still just dont see small arms having an effect on a Military... until you start to get some of THEIR STUFF, and then Use it wisely.


Anyway, I enjoy this thread.... keep it going...

Blitzkreigen




You'd be amazed how many americans can make explosives with standard household chemicals. Ever heard of the anarchists cookbook, it has some nifty-cool stuff in it.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Anuubis]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:27 PM
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Ok im ex air force, In tech school and at my perm station, Ive had the Luxury of camping with survival teachers, They have told me time an time again, that supplies are worthless.... That if I wanted to survive, that nature had EVERYTHING i needed.... I just needed to look.

We went out an camped for just 4 days, but with just our clothes, leathermen, and our backpacks with clothes in them. We made filters from Natural elements, Ate bugs, and Certain Foliage, Set some traps, only caught small game, Due to the time we had crafting anything that would take down larger game would take a bit more prep.

But in the end, We did it all with just nature. The tools were mostly Rocks and fashioned wood, not to mention a leathermen comes in handy.... you can goto a survival store an spend 10 grand, But in the end Everything You buy will make it that much harder to be " invisible " an move easily. Not to mention You'll still be using natural products you make after a few months.....

Your mind and habits are the things U will need to prepare the most.....

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Trance Optic]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by Trance Optic
 
That is exactly what i told people in another thread when they were talking about what to stock up on. I told them knowledge is the best equipment they could ever get. But others kept going off about useless stuff that would weigh them down and eventually be worthless anyways.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 12:55 PM
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All i have an want for this Sit x is 1 rucksac filled with basic survival items like paracord and good knives, fishing kit, and some other basics like med bag an such, ,2 duffle bags for clothes and a few books.

I've also been pondering a Laptop encased in a lead box. That way My external Hds would be of use as long as I can Protect them well enuff.


also a foot powered gen, but Im still thinking on that one.

Dont forget too, that we wont be forced to survive like Our Forefathers had too, We will have Machinery an Parts EVERYWHERE!!!!!

Learn Lock Picking! As long as we are surrounded by junk, we will be able to make a seriously good start to things.


also dont forget when packing food. Junk food can be best... becuz of its HIGH calories... of course bring yer vit c an such, but dont forget your fatty foods.....

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Trance Optic]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by Trance Optic
 
My list consists of rifle, pistol, ammo, 3 knives, a weeks worth of emergency rations,2 days worth of clothes(plus what i'm wearing), para-cord, sharpening steel, fishing line and hooks, basic meds, 10 high capacity mags for each weapon, field surgical kit, magnesium firestarter, leatherman, and binoculars. It all fits in my tactical vest, alice pack, and one duffle bag. Oh and i know the mountains around here like the back of my hand. Plus beneficial plants.



[edit on 12-7-2008 by Anuubis]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Nice set up, I have most of what you say minus firearms, since I have small kids an the lack of funds to dive into gun ownership right now, But it will come about once I have the funds. Not to mention, I can build my own gun if I needed too. Not a 9 mm, but a combustion cannon. lol

Not to mention I can make some Seriously badass Booby traps lol. Ewoks anyone! lol

But I have Knives and Swords out my wazing. Not to mention 2 blowdart guns.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by Trance Optic
 
You could always move here, i'll let you use one of my guns. I have enough for a small army
. I have children too so what i did was save up till i had the money for my mini-14. The rest my dad gave me or i had before getting married.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Lol I was Stationed Out in Idaho, Mtn Home, lol I loved the area ( being a Country Boy ) but im kinda about 3k miles from u, a Trek of that feat would lead to Oregon Trail disaster. lol

thanks for looking out thoe, My grand pa was a gunsmith for most of his life, as a hobby, He has more then enuff for me to use, I plan on Being near him when Sit x happens. Or at least taking a safe route to him....

You can march or hike 200 miles in about 3 days. considering You can Walk a mile in 15 mins.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Trance Optic
 
I live in the mountains in the north part of the state, it's a very secure area. The offer will remain open if you ever change your mind. I can always use more prepared people in my group. Or when TSHTF you could grab your family and drive here. There are plenty of back roads so you couldn't be caught and sent to a "camp".



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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What did everyone give up on this thread?



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:34 AM
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Originally posted by Anuubis
What did everyone give up on this thread?


I personally didnt "give up" on this thread.

I actually changed a bit of my thinking, AFTER I'm discovered from playing "Rabbit in the Hole" and my location is known.

Here is a short list of 'things' and 'skills' that I posted on another thread to TRADE for drinking water supplies.

Like I said, I plan on Hiding Out and being berry berry quiet, because we are hunting wabbitts...

If I'm no longer in 'hole up' mode...... then

QUOTE from "Survival Ethics- Resource Sharing" thread:



ITEMS FOR TRADE immediately acceptable: ( Not Including Basic LABOR )

Gasoline, Food, White Gas, Propane, Diesel, Liquor, Cigarettes, Batteries, Generator, Oil, Medical supplies or knowledge, engine repair/ maintaince, Chainsaw and /or Blades, Tree( firewood) cutting or simply delivery, Stock Animals, Chickens, Rabbitts, Ammo, Building supplies and /or labor, Military Experience, EMT Experience, Firefighter Experience, Police Experience, National Guard Experience, Veterinary Services Experience and/or MEDS, Heavy Equipment, working Communication devices and /or shortwave or HAM Experience, Massage Therapist, Chriopractor, or Reki Master, Akido Master, Or any other Martial Arts Expert, Gold, Silver, Gunpowder, 'working' security cameras and monitors that run 12 volt, Solar Panels, or Wind Generators. Anything that runs on 12 volts, besides cell phones. Water TANKS, Water trucks, baby formula, diapers if applicable,

After all that simply ASK them what they 'know' or what they can contribute. Providing them with a list, such as this, will help immediately to spark their imagination, and what to be looking for.




AS you can see I think I progressed a bit from reading THIS thread.

I must stipulate though that this is all AFTER the fact... as I pointed out earlier in this thread.

Best regards,

Blitzkreigen





[edit on 15-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]





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