Originally posted by Kailassa
Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by dontreally
No, you look at it this way! This is not some belief which I aquired from reading a book, or from some religious jargon, or from some internet forum,
this is my REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE! You can spend as much time as you want reading religious books and writing on internet forums about how you KNOW what
is right, I have witnessed this for my own eyes growing up in urban cities where people are dying and suffering daily! Those are my friends and
family! So stand on your religious high horse and preach down to us about those 'evil-doers' but you are living in a fantasy world, You are living in
nothing but delusion and fear! I refuse to sit around condemning others and claim righteousness over them, when I am them, when we are them, when they
are us. I refuse to build walls and live my life out in fear so I can cherish my self-loathings. I refuse to promote or support any war that results
in the death or defranchisement of any human! That in itself is a Nihilistic view of life, and it shows a serious lack of compassion and wisdom to
your fellow species. And I am not a Christian, or any other thing you wish to label me as, get that right!
I'm through arguing with you!
It looks like you and I have really upset him.
He doesn't want to see that people can change, or that even cruel people can have goodness inside.
One day he might even see that his own self-righteous, executioner attitude is just blindness and cruelty, and might change himself.
I've learned that each person has a hidden perfect being inside, and if you can love them enough to communicate with that inner being, it strengthens
the inner being so it can grow. Then they have the choice of changing, and many do.
Yes. clearly i was the one who got upset.
I like the way the two of you conduct yourselves in an argument.
In Judaism, this sort of 'ganging up' in conversation is looked down upon, and it should be. Especially when the two other parties are knowingly
trying to mock, and demean him.
I never said once, that i didnt have a love for people. And i had said plenty of times in earlier posts that Love is the most important thing there
is. In Kabbalah, Echad - One, has the same gematria as Ahava - love. Love is the feeling of oneness.
Love is why G-d created the world.
To describe me as having " an executioner attitude" is insulting and a complete distortion of what i believe, and how i have tried to convey my
With normal, decent people, you approach them with love. In only one situation did i say Killing others is ok. And thats when theyre coming to kill
you. I made comment about that awhile back, and you buddhist 'peace lovers with no ego' have pounced on me like rabid dogs. Thats a NORMAL response
whether you realize it or not. I hope youre never put in a situation where you have to defend yourself, by killing the other party; its either you or
him. And if you appreciate this goft of life, you will protect yourself against the aggressor, and the one who deserves to be killed, for wanting to
take your life, unjustly. This is a normal cause and effect relationship. You know, what you do comes back to you? If youre seeking someone elses
life, its only right that they be the one to take you out. They had nothing against you, and ONLY desired peace.
There are simply too many reasons, and too many iterations of this truth for me to elucidate. Its true, and if you cant see that, than you should
follow the advice of Jesus "Get the Plank Out of Your Eye Before You Want to Help Another With His Speck"..
And as for Fear. Read up on Kabbalah.
Why should everything be ok? Why does Fear, which implies restriction of thought behavior and speech, have to be a bad thing?
The kabbalists relate this to a work of Art. For a piece of art to exist, and become manifest on a physical parchment, the artist first had to
contract his magnifient vision. He has to limit, and indeed only take a part of what he percieves spiritually, to make that art a reality.
Likewise, we Human beings have complete freedom of expression. G-d asks us that we limit, and contract our will, to only certain behaviors and actions
which are in line with the 7 laws of Noah(the 7 colors of the rainbow allude to these laws - noah made a covenant with g-d, and the rainbow stood as a
sign for it).
1. Prohibition of Idolatry: You shall not have any idols before God.
2. Prohibition of Murder: You shall not murder. (Genesis 9:6)
3. Prohibition of Theft: You shall not steal.
4. Prohibition of Sexual immorality: You shall not commit any of a series of sexual prohibitions, namely adultery, certain types of incest, anal
sex between men and bestiality.
5. Prohibition of Blasphemy: You shall not blaspheme God's name.
6. Dietary Law: Do not eat flesh taken from an animal while it is still alive. (Genesis 9:4, as interpreted in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 59a)
7. Requirement to have just Laws: Do not punish by these lessons
Each law is related to one of the 7 lower sefirot. Each is the restriction, and contraction needed to bring about the rectified spiritual reality
which exists up above, down below.
1) Anytime you act in anyway which contradicts the unity of G-d - the fact that G-d is completely one, in this world and the higher ones, by placing
in front of yuor consciousness an intermediary - which in reality means any achetypal power, or any power in general, which you percieve as having
power; when you attribute anything to anything other than the one G-d, youre guilty of idolatry. This a completely proper, and righteous attitude,
that i know many buddhists, Native americans (i know this for sure, since im in correspondence with 2 cherokee indians in oklahoma who acknowledge the
truth of the Torah, and the rabbinic tradition) etc. that refuse to look at the world other in a way of complete unity. G-d is one, and he is truly
the source of everything. It is only right, and proper, that we honor this understanding, instead of creating a counterfeit philosophy which says g-d
manifests equally in all areas, and it makes no difference whether we consciously act this way or not. That is sheer laziness. I dont care what anyone
says. When you do that, you do it cause its comfortasble, and convenient. Whereas the former forces you to make your will as his. Its demoting you
from a demigod, as buddhists see themselves, to a child of G-d. Just like any child, he has to obey the will of his father. We are children. And we
can only be considered "grown" by followng our fathers will, and than through this become realized in a holy (separate) context. The idea above all is
to not allow oneself to be offset by limitation, which paradoxically, is how we achieve the infinite.
If you dont agree with me, thats fine. Im interested in diologue, not demonization. There is nothing evil, or immoral about Jewish philosophy. Most
normal people are impressed, and inspired by the simple joy of serving G-d in this way. Its a true transformation of self. From a natural person, born
into the context of this world, to tranform himself and realize himself as a refined reflection of his divine source. Unlike animals, our job doesnt
come naturally to us. We have understanding and knowledge of the divine. They do not. Each kingdom of creation is defined by its own strengths.
Animals have no self consciousness (that is, consciousness of themselves being a separate being, as opposed to just acting, unconsciously). We do. We
know we exist. We know and can reflect on that fact. We can reflect on our actions, which is a natural response for us. Thus, the natural approach to
spirituality, for human beings, should be in dualistic; discerning one thing from another. But not duality for the sake of dualism. No. A duality for
the sake of the soul - which is the root and source of ones being. One is involved in bring heaven down to earth.
Look at a dog when youre thinking about something philosophical, and theyll tilt their head in confusion. Its a beautiful sign. Dogs are beautiful
creatures, at THEIR level. Humans are completely different, and were exhorted in the torah to "rule the animals", that is, not succumb to their
nature, but show our own infinite ability to change, and transform ourselves. The idea of Judaism ultimately is to change the physical, and natural,
and have it accept and recieve the light of the infinite. This can only happen when we, being created in the divine form, make this happen by
subjugating our own animal natures, to the will and reality of the soul. The soul thus uses the body as a Rider its horse. The Vehicle serves the will
of he who controls it. Thats how it should be.
As for not showing mercy to the cruel. G-d created the world with judgement, and mercy. Those who perform their purpose in this world with honesty,
and integrity, and sincerely tries to do good. Why should a person such as this be punished? They shouldnt be. They deserve mercy and G-d commands
that we show mercy to such worthy and meritorious people. But habitual criminals. People with no moral standard at all? G-d forbid the situation
arrive, because i wouldnt want to kill anyone, but their evil testifies against them. The works of their hands speak against what theyve done to
others. And this person SHOULDNT be punished? I dont mean cutting hands off, btw. That is wrong. I mean death penalty for murderers, rapists, child
molestors, habitual thieves, and other people who routinely spurn the law of heaven.
Either way, dont Easterners believe in Karma? IS that not a law of justive? Thus, is there not a intelligence or force, dispensing such justice?
I would please ask that yuo forgive my earlier language or tone. Im trying to be civil, and honestly just to have a conversation about these differing
views. So, please cool it with the smack talk - and i will too. And show the mercy you claim to see in all people.
edit on 7-12-2010 by
dontreally because: (no reason given)