Theres clearly a lack clarity between what im writing and how youre responding.
Let me quote the leader of the Don Meh (only extant sabatean organization today. headquarted in turkey)
"The other Jews call me a heretic. Well, I am. And worse, an iconoclast too: my goal is nothing less than the breaking of all religious
containers (and not just Judaism) for the sake of liberating God. In the words of my 18th century namesake and predecessor, Yakov Leib Frank, 'All the
faiths and conducts and the books that have been written till today -- everyone who reads in them is like someone who has turned his head backwards
and is looking at things already dead. All of it comes from the Gate of Death. But the wise man's eyes are ever in his head so he must look towards
He-Who-Walks-In-Front.' Like Frank and the other radical antinomian Kabbalists who came before him, I worship God and not religion; I seek for His
salvation and not my own.....or, even less-so, yours."
The Don Meh website has 6 figures on its front page. Shabbati Tzvi, Nathan of Gaza, Jacob Frank, Ramakrishna, Carl Jung and himself.
You seem to see a beauty in these ideas that i conversely find repulsive.
Let me try to address some things you wrote, in which you imagine you're edifying me of some immutable process.
Why do you always make such simple things so complicated?
What am i making complicated? I reference comparative mythology, and how the pagans of Asia minor and Greece conducted them. I mentioned them to point
the 'deference' made to the gods, by defering all human responsibility, to them. Human will is thus called into question. Archetypes are pictured as
'gods', and indeed, tibetan buddhism along with hinduism worships gods. This by the way the Tanakh speaks of that at the end of time god will destroy
all teh gods - or the archetypes worshipped by the nations. Aphrodite, Ares, Mercury, etc.
So, is this information not relevant to Buddhism? I already mentioned the pantheon of gods buddhsim worships, with tara having particular importance
(BTW - Tara is from the same etyomological root as Ashtarte, Ishtar, the Hebrew Ashtarot, and the modern 'tarot'. Its the deification of the
experiential reality, which is collectively the feminine)
. And transcending that suffering is not ignoring it, or avoiding it as you stated.
No, i said ignoring the suffering of OTHERS, is ignoring the unity, between each other. Just as i care for myself, so should i care for others. Theres
no difference. The objective reality - this world, has to be united with the subjective reality - our own. No separation. Anything less is selfish and
idolatry. G-d is one in ALL the worlds. This is the reason for objective commandments. Humans have the Chutzpah to imagine they morally know whats
best. G-d gave man 7 laws, that if you follow them, your decisions will be aligned with the spiritual objective reality above. Ignoring, is incurring
sin, and guilt.
Without addressing it as a reality, accepting it as real and facing it head on, it cannot be transcended.
Okay, were entering the world of pychology - ie pseudo scienced. Do not pass off 'not addressing your problems' as repression. For instance, i realize
and acknowledge my probems, my lackings and my needs. Everynight i pray and ask for strength and support. Is this 'repression" or sublimation? You
would probably call it repression. I call is sublimation. My problems, my 'evil' side, is being vented, and reflected in my prayer. I do not need to
JUSTIFY it in order to deal with it. Nor do i see it as intrinsic to my being. But a 'shell' 'kelipah' which covers the fruit within. It has to be
cracked, and broken, to appreciate the fruit inside.
Avoiding, ignoring, or suppressing suffering is not what Buddhists teach, or what Jung was speaking of.
What Jungs speaks of is contradictive at times. It can be hard to follow. The suffering is not repressed, first of all. And connecting ones suffering
to G-d, which bring things into the highest possible context, i would definitely call 'transcendence'. Not only am i not bothered by problems, i
neither fear them either. Therefore, i havent got much fear of suffering, nor do i justify it. I would say the Jewish way vs. this gnostic path is
much more holy, simple and humble. Its man saying, "im suffering. Why am i sufferring? because im separated from you, my source. Im here in this lowly
world. But i think this sufferring is for a deeper reason. Indeed, this sufferring helps me realize my futility. I am not all there is. A lacking
exists in me. This awareness promotes a humility. And that humility sets up the background for a relationship with G-d, our creator and source".
Again. This is not based on speculation. I already told you Hebrew, as a language, definitely indicates that G-d gave the Torah to man. Regardless of
what archeology or mythologists, anthopologists or ethnologsits have to say. Statistically speaking, it is sheer absurdity to imagine Hebrew, with its
remarkable consistency, is man made.
And again, until you transcend your suffering you are of no use to anyone else, so you must focus on yourself to be able to truly help others.
Sometimes doing nothing is better then doing something, especially if you are not an enlightened person. Why is that so difficult for you to
Why cant you do both at once? Why cant you follow basic commandments. Be good to others, help them, show compassion - to those who deserve compassion
(ie decent people, and not scoundrels) in addition to working on yourself within (paradoxically, giving, is actually recieving, in that the very act
of giving changes you, and gives something 'spiritual' to you)
This may be what you believe, but it is not what Jung or many other schools of thought in pagan religions believe. There is room for nastiness, and
sensualism, licentiousness, sarcasm, nihilism, etc. Look at Greek Myth. Can it be any more arrogant? It glorifies itself in its knowledge of man, and
experiences. An ex. When someone else thinks and believes that being mean, will help 'build character' in a person, i say that person is an arrogant
shmuck. As if being mean is the only way to grow. No. People grow regardless. Youre not G-d, and its not your job to mistreat others (despite the
satisfaction it would give you).
How can you be sure you are not causing more damage to them, unknowingly, if you have yet to realize your own condition? And if you have realized your
own condition then you will not be focused on helping others, but instead you will be focused on helping yourself because you know without doing that
you are of no use to them anyway. Simple, isn't it?
Didnt follow the logic. How am i of no use to them? do kind words, and help and support, not help others? Granted. If someone doesnt want my help, i
wont help them. But if i see they can use my help, i will definitely seek to help them. My suffering? Life IS About sufferring. This world is not made
for us to transcend, and avoid it. Were in this world to CHANGE and transform it. Judaism gives meaning to this world, whle buddhism takes it all
away, and says 'bliss' is all there is. Sorry for seeing that as a little self motivated. In Judaism, one seeks to bring bliss, and joy, to his
source, G-d. One is therefore trying to focus his heart on the other - G-d, which manfiests equally in all created things. If i turn away from someone
who needs help, or someone who is sensitive and who requires being spoken to in a gentle manner, i would be acting carlessly and brazenly. Living this
way, paradoxically, brings one joy. Of course, at my level, i act often for self benefit, and rarelt experience truly selflessness (in that i had no
ulteriro motive). And most human beings do so. That does not mean that im being dishonest by focusing my heart and mind on the omnipresent. I look to
him because hes the source, and its his will that i do whats right, and good and constructive. By doing so i atleast sbujugate my body, to him. My
mind may not be totally with him (though after many years of doing this, one does experience tremendous growth in this way) but my body will do what
it needs to do fullfill his will.
Anyways. I see your justifying that strain of thought. You people always sound so kindly but... The majority of westerners who learn about budhism
dont quite understand the whole nature of it. Yes, most Buddhists are good people. But, theres a moral laxity, as i said earlier and a liberalism and
'its ok' mentality, even in the face of evil. Instead of fighting it, youd rather 'transcend' it. Which of course, is of no good use to this world,
and entirely helpful to the very perpetuators of evil.
The talmud says something that i absolutely love, and that is: When someone is coming to kill you, you go out and kill him first. Why? To protect your
life. Your life is precious in the eyes of G-d.
Likewise, my signature says "showing mercy to the cruel, is showing cruelty to the merciful".
These are such logical, and intuitively true conclusions. So much of what Buddhism says, conversely, is not intuitive, or naturally present, as a
quality of conscience. It instead seeks convenience. For everyone.
Judaism doesnt shirk responsibility. They believe, because G-d told them, taht this world has a purpose. They seek their entire live to carry this
burden, to fight the satan (which lit. means 'adversay') . This fight builds spiritual muscle. just as the resistance of a heavy weight builds
edit on 3-12-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)