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Is Heaven created on earth?

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posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 04:44 AM
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Good day all,

If this is in the wrong section feel free to move it!

I investigated into the phenomena of NDE (Near Death Experience).
This is one of those phenomena actually proven by science which makes it more interesting.



In 2001 Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel published his research into the near-death experiences (NDE) of 344 Dutch patients in the renowned medical journal The Lancet. They had all suffered from a cardiac arrest in the hospital. Sixty two of them proved to have experienced a NDE. Van Lommel’s article made headlines around the world.


But I want to ad to the fact that NDE exists and what it possible means.

In my opinion its already made clear in the story's told by people that have experienced NDE.

But here are my conclusions.

We create our heaven here on earth!
A very large number of people who had NDE describe that they see there live being shown as if looking to a movie about them and there experience.
And that they have to judge there own actions!!!

But also a large number of them say that they actually feel the feelings of their actions on the people they have known or met.

What this (in my opinion) means is that you are going to be judged by your self when you pas on, and that when you have done bad things to people that you actually are going to feel their pain!!!

So in live if you hurt somebody your actually buying a ticket for the same pain after you leave your body. I don't say die because we don't die we are passing one to a stage that we are actually more alive than ever because wee can feel, know and experience more than we do now.

So if you had a good live and follow your hart then you have a great movie to watch and you even feel the happiness of the ones you loved helped etc.

I also think if you live was to bad or if you ended id to soon we are send back to do it over!

In my opinion stick to the 10 commandments and you will be


Like to know what others think of this?


There is a nother thread with interesting information about this.
link to other thread

And here is the site of Pim van Lommel;
link




posted on Jun, 19 2008 @ 04:48 AM
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Originally posted by johndoeknows

But also a large number of them say that they actually feel the feelings of their actions on the people they have known or met.


Ah. Telepathic Empathy.




posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 04:37 AM
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Í thought that this would be interesting to more people but I think I was wrong.

Or could it be that a lot of people are not convertible that they are going to judge there own actions.

A huge part of my post is scientifically proven, NDE and the story people tel are al well documented. And Lommel's work is mind blowing and true.

I would like to discuss my opinion on this matter and like to know what others think on this subject!



[edit on 30-6-2008 by johndoeknows]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by johndoeknows
 


Well maybe the reason that people are not interested is the fact that this doctor "claims" to have scientifically proven NDE's are real but in fact has done nothing of the sort. In true scientific methodology,62 out of 344 people is considered an anomaly, NOT PROOF. This would entail a more thorough investigation and would indicate something in the testing process needed to be adjusted. Instead he decided to publish his "findings" as fact even though most respected medical journals completely disagree with his "findings". I am not accusing him of being a fake or a hoaxer, please let me state this now. I am accusing him of using poor methodology in his quest for his "findings". If you my friend have faith and believe in NDE's as being something spiritual then by all means I will not begrudge you that nor ridicule or bash you. I only ask that you not misrepresent this "doctor's" book as scientific fact. It's not. If you research ANY of the major medical journals and publications you will see that they have a wholly different professional opinion. 1 opinion against THOUSANDS of verifiable facts?
EDIT SP

[edit on 30-6-2008 by djvexd]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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We create our heaven here on earth!


AMEN is all I have to add to this.


At least that is, and has been for a long time, my intuition, too.
I suppose it is - theoretically, at least - possible that each one inhabits a universe with different laws, created by our own perceptions and beliefs (I mentioned it here).
But I really do believe that heaven is created actively, from within the heart, in this life.

I am glad for you that you came to the same conclusion.
I think - certainly hope - you will find out that it enriches life as no other thing can.




I also think if you live was to bad or if you ended id to soon we are send back to do it over!


And I'd like to think we come back to do it all over again if it was GOOD, too...





[edit on 30-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:43 AM
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Well maybe the reason that people are not interested is the fact that this doctor "claims" to have scientifically proven NDE's are real but in fact has done nothing of the sort.



Oh yes, he has.
He has done at least as well as any - and I mean ANY - of his detractors who really have not produced "evidence" of any sort.

But there is nothing that will convince those who, for some little private reason of their own, do not want to be convinced.
Which is perfectly fine.
What I find highly immoral is their attempts to discredit - intellectually and morally - those who know better, or at least who try to keep an open mind about it.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by johndoeknows
Í thought that this would be interesting to more people but I think I was wrong.


I think the problem is not lack of interest, but bad timing.
By the time you post, the majority of the usual and active visitors are either asleep or at work; and by the time they come to these boards, most people in, say, Europe are fast asleep.
And because the "turnover" of the threads is so fast, the likelihood of your thread being noticed is minimalised in a matter of minutes - perhaps an hour or so - unless somebody is looking specifically for the subject you're writing about.

That's how many, MANY highly exciting and valid threads get buried...





[edit on 30-6-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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I think this subject is very interesting, here is a thread with a great documentary on NDE's.

Another interesting fact, is that of a blind woman who had never "seen" anything in her life, yet in her NDE she saw the doctors working over her, detailing instruments used and actually seeing herself for the first time, lots more info on link.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:56 AM
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My mother had a NDE as a child she once told me a kid that she also saw her life flash before her eyes. Just imagine that eh? That would be a trip to see....I wonder what importance pictures would pop up in my head







Best Regards,

Richie



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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If life exist after death, my opinion is that we take our earthily life experience with us and have difficulty to assumes both the invisible and visible part of the universe.
We don’t judge our self as we let our 3 dimensional life memory dictating our experience after we depart this world.
This is very different of what this post is assuming where by be nice or someone will judge you for your sin…in this case this someone is your self.

Like when we are born in this world, we have so much to learn and very less to remember. I think when we die it is the same …so for me NDE is not dead man tells …but a surviving man tell.
When you dead you are dead…it is a paradox to say someone has come back from death.
Kacou.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 

I hate to disagree but, I respectfully disagree. He may have proven his theories to you and others but he hasn't PROVEN anything to the scientific nor medical community. Like I said before if you feel he is right then by all means I will not begrudge you that nor ridicule nor bash, but do NOT misrepresent the fact that he is contradicted by numerous medicla and scientific journals to date nor his lack to ahere to methodology. And as for you veiled attempt to infer that I am "unenlightened" I simply need facts and proof before I can hop on board.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by djvexd]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Yes correct I know that story.
Lommel did record a lot of people who where clinically dead who could describe doctors and there tools in detail even those brought in after the patient was under narcoses.

Some patients even could describe events in other parts of the hospital.

That cant be possible unless you could leave your body!



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:14 PM
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Huh, some neat accounts. I just got shown a dark, cold room.

I at least agree that we should make a heaven on Earth before trying for the afterlife. It's one of the few things I've seen on a church sign I agree with. Now, a person's opinions of what Heaven on Earth means probably are different. Mines a good day's work with honest pay, some good folks to hang out with at the beach later on, and some good jokes and a good family.
For other people it's different. But if we went out of our way to do good for othr people, we'd definetly be a bit better off. At the same time, though, we also need to be ready to fight if it comes to it.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by johndoeknows
Yes correct I know that story.
Lommel did record a lot of people who where clinically dead who could describe doctors and there tools in detail even those brought in after the patient was under narcoses.

Some patients even could describe events in other parts of the hospital.

That cant be possible unless you could leave your body!



Got any links to any of these stories? I would like to read them !



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by djvexd
 


The ones trying to debunk him where rightfully silenced by him with facts.
The ones trying to debunk him never even investigated the phenomena themselves so how could they debunk him if they cant proof he is wrong?

He documented a phenomena which other doctors very well know exist but they don't want to come forward with it, because they think it will harm their career.

Question:
Did you read his book?
Did you investigate his work! and al the other documentations about his phenomena?

This is one of those story's on ATS actually supported by a lot of very good doctors (and people) and Lommel was brave enough to wright a book about it and yes he even got it into science magazines!

(don't forget the very credible patients who experienced it first hand)



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by djvexd
 


If I were referring to you personally, it wouldn't have been veiled, believe me...

It's just not my style.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by Seaman_Richie
 


Have you checked the 2 links @ the beginning of my thread!
Also when you google NDE etc. then you will find out very much.

Blind people and NDE link

Here a nice list of story's link

[edit on 1-7-2008 by johndoeknows]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by johndoeknows
reply to post by Seaman_Richie
 


Have you checked the 2 links @ the beginning of my thread!
Also when you google NDE etc. then you will find out very much.

Blind people and NDE link

Here a nice list of stroy's link


Lol...I can't really say I search death that much mate....




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