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Mafia - Freemasonry Promenant Arrests

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posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Hi Fire

There's two threads (at least) running with the Italian connection. I've just read this one now so hopefully none of this gets too confusing.

If you haven't seen it already there's a summary of Continental Freemasonry on Wiki.




posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Trinityman
 


Yes, I've read it. About 3 to 4 times now. Thanks.

The schism occurred only because the Europeans had the gull to take out the requirement of a belief in God or the silly "Great Architect" abstraction. If there's more than that, then the Masonic-editors of Wikipedia should be more specific (such as your insistence that the Orient Lodges over there represent a real aberration - more than just refusing to acknowledge God.)



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
The schism occurred only because the Europeans had the gull to take out the requirement of a belief in God or the silly "Great Architect" abstraction. If there's more than that, then the Masonic-editors of Wikipedia should be more specific (such as your insistence that the Orient Lodges over there represent a real aberration - more than just refusing to acknowledge God.)


The refusal to acknowledge Deity is much, much more than a "silly Great Architect abstraction." The foundation of freemasonry requires such an acknowledgment. Its quite a large deal, and lodges that remove this requirement are about as different from regular masonry as you can be.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


I said 'silly "Great Architect" abstraction', not 'silly aberration'.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


OK, duly noted. The statement still stands. Its like removing the requirement to go camping from the boy scouts. What you have left is still something, but it isn't the boy scouts you or I know.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
it isn't the boy scouts you or I know


Uhh, especially not the one I know. I'm not a "joiner," remember?



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by cbass
reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


So it sounds like you are saying the masons help eachother with anything
they are capeable of helping with.


We also help out others in the community as well. My lodge sponsers the local veterans home and we are often there to assist the residents with activities or just to lend an ear to someone who might not have frequent visitors or family.


Weather it be getting a job, lending a helping hand, place to stay, food if you are hungry, a ride if you need it,etc. Am I correct? If so I'm in.


While I have never had another Mason assist me with finding employment I was able to direct a Brother recently to an individual (not a Mason) who was looking for help in his company. The Brother I recommended interviewed and was eventually hired based on his qualifications. I would do this for anyone I felt was capable of performing the requirements of the job in question, not just for fellow Masons.

As for the other instances you mentioned, we do this and more as far as our means to give permits and I have heard numerous anecdotes from other Masons that have been on the receiving end of such genorousity and kindness.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


I never joined the boy scouts, but obviously its such a large organization that I know camping is one of the big things they do.

I note you use "joiner" in a way that sounds pejorative, either intentionally or unintentionally, through many of your posts. You make it sound as if choosing to join organizations is somehow below you, or is something only the common plebes partake in. I think being a "joiner" simply means I am human - I join and communicate with people who have similar ideas. I find it odd you are so passionately against such notions - when you surely do it yourself, or your a hermit.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


I don't join organizations. No. Never have, never will.

Not even a political party. I cherish the fact that I am independent in everything I do. One does not need to be a "hermit" merely to avoid "joining" things just for the sake of "joining."



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Then I hope you withdrew yourself from public school (group: students), never went to university (group: college students), never go anywhere in a car (group: motorists), and never go shopping anywhere at any time, including for food (group: shoppers). In other words, if your going to be consistent, you better live on a ranch that is completely self-sufficient.

..but wait, your still a member of a group. ATS users. And your a self-proclaimed conspiracy theorist, which is part of a larger group of conspiracy theorists.

This sort of anti-institutionalism is a pretty common characteristic on ATS, but its interesting because almost all of the people who rage against institutions still join groups at some level - you cant avoid it - its human. There is nothing "bad" about it.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


I have this nasty little habit of Helping Anyone I possibly can with no favouratism for anyone be they a member of a club I am in or not.
YOu make a clear distinction between your brothers and the rest of US.
Answer this question:

You are on your way home and you notice that your neighbors house is on fire. He is a fellow mason and attends the same lodge as you.
His wife is on the front lawn crying begging you to go in and save him.
The fire hasn't really taken off yet and the fire department hasn't arrives and you are fairly confident you can save him.
On your way in the house you hear a scream and it is your other neighbor who has stopped by to visit. She is equally at risk of dieing if you don't help.
Who do you save first?

If you are intellectually honest you will say your brother in the craft.
IF you don't then you will probly not look so good to your fellow masons who are following this post
If you do say that you would save a fellow mason first then it only serves to prove my point, There is favouratizm where there should be none.
We are all fellow human beings and if anything the weaker people should be saved first.

My bet is that you will elect not to answer this question at all, or use some sort of deflection.

By the way, they are both at exact equall distances and are screaming at exactly the same decible levels.LOL.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


"conspiracy theorist" is a pejorative. The MSM call us that. I have never self-proclaimed myself as a "theorist." I have another pejorative for the MSM though: shills and contemptuous lowlifes.

If you had any real interest in conspiracy investigations yourself - in fact I don't even know why you are here (at a Conspiracy site) - then you'd realize that conspiracy "theorist" isn't something that is "self-proclaimed."


you cant avoid it


I've done a pretty good job so far. There is not one card in my wallet that says Mr. Melanson is a "proud member" of so and so, or such and such.

That's just me. That's who I am. And that's why I don't get the "joiners." Perhaps I'm not "human." At any rate, it's a conscious decision not to join; just as you have to actively seek out things to join or belong to.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by cbass
 


Ah yes, the best friend of the rabid anti-mason: logical fallacies. Here we have an excellent example of a false dichotomy fallacy.

Making up scenarios that have only two choices layered to fit your propganda does not prove anything, because the scenario is not only never going to happen but if it did, there would be more than just 2 choices - as you have presented. This "choose between the mason or the non-mason and someone is going to die" is not reflective of reality. In fact you screwed up, because in cases where lives are at stake I and any other rational person I can think of (mason or non-mason) would become utilitarian and in this false dichotomy save the non-mason, since she is closest and there is no guarantee of saving the mason.

If your going to create a false dichotomy, at least do it right. Let me show you how to do it right:

On the way home from your anti-mason meeting you get into a three car wreck. Your rabid anti-mason leader is in one car, and a mason you've been stalking from the lodge is in another. Both are on fire, and both look like they are going to explode. Who do you choose?

If you say anything other than the anti-mason leader, your not being honest with yourself. As such, we can now see that you as an anti-mason are evil.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


No, you can't. People are members of lots of groups that aren't formal and don't have membership cards. Your family is a group - I hope you never visit them. Your friends are a group - I hope you never visit them either. Any voluntary association with others where you share a common idea or goal makes you a member of a group, whether your have a formal meeting room or membership card. Being anti-institutions is fun, but unfortunately, it doesn't mean your not a joiner even if you have no membership cards. I also hope you don't have a job - as that would also put you as a member of a group.

Conspiracy theorist is not pejorative - it says what you do - you suspect conspiracies, which you cannot prove but may have some evidence for. As to why I am here? Because I think the real conspiracy is the conspiracies - there is a concentrated effort to make them up in order to distract people from the real problems in this world. ATS does not require you believe in certain conspiracy theories to join.

By the way, you are setting up the same false dichotomy that the above anti-mason did. The world is not divided into joiners and non-joiners. I do not actively seek out to join anything, and that you make statements like that shows your making up this false dichotomy. I have no need to join, remember - just because creating a false dichotomy fits your worldview does not mean the false dichotomy is real.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Because I think the real conspiracy is the conspiracies


I thought you were one of those.

Thanks for the confirmation.

You do know then, that everything you contribute to these boards has an high probability of causing strife. Nobody likes a debunker - especially if that's all he is here to do. The internet has long had slang for it as well: trolling.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


Oh, how deliciously simpleton you are. What an amazing world it must be to live in where everyone who agrees with you is a valid conspiracy theorist, and everyone who does not is a troll. You have the desire to create this narrow worldview so bad your now even making stuff about me.

This may come as a shock - but bear with me - disagreeing with you does not constitute a troll. Nor does believing that conspiracy theorists are a part of a larger conspiracy. The only person that seems to be causing strife is you. Most members of ATS can view the world through more than two dimensions, and they understand the possibilities and meaning behind the reality that many conspiracy theories are a deflection mechanism to distract from the real problems of the world.

However, there is a word for what your doing: propagandizing.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ALightinDarkness
 


You're whacked buddy. Totally whacked. And you do not belong in this environment.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
 


I'm so happy your the sole decider of who gets to belong on ATS or not. Apparently, anyone that agrees with you belongs and everyone else is just crazy.

When everyone that doesn't agree with you is crazy, maybe - just maybe - there are larger issues with you.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
I'm so happy your the sole decider of who gets to belong on ATS


If I were, you'd be gone - in 1 second.



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