"absurdities in the bible"

www.infidels.org...

just curious how those who are "take the bible at its word" reconcile that belief w/ the things in the above link. there are other links at the top of that thread that draw more of the bible's words into question.

this is not meant to draw out unintellectual arguing, but rather just to get some perspective from those who think differently than i do.

for the record, i like the bible. i find much truth in many of the words as i do from other sources. i believe there is good and evil in everything and if we have one creator, than that good and evil COMES from that creator, which the bible points to quite often. however, i see the bible as being an objective book that comes from many different writers, who were after all, no more immortal than you and i are.

~ thank you for any perspectives shared

I checked out the link and I was a little uncomfortable about the part that said it was absurd to think that giants once existed and that there is absolutley no evidence of giants...I don't really agree with that. I think there are a few threads already on ATS discussing 'evidence of giants'

other than that, there are some great points made...nice thread!

[edit on 13-6-2008 by cynical572]

as a religious text and likely an amalgam of many myths and stories of the region and over a few thousand years there will be lots of contradictions and 'absurdities.' on the link Gen 1:1- yes in the beginning and it goes on to say God ate food and wrestled....well in a due respect this is the Supreme Architect of the Universe, if this so wishes to be a man for a day to wrestle and eat well a god, the God , a deity can certainly do this. there is no conflict here
even galatians 1:8-9 it asks an Angel from God? well even the Devil is a fallen angel not a god himself so the bible says
and remember the many of writers and mistakes we have in translations lots of goofy things can show up- but aside from literal acceptance- we can see the message and stories can be comforting, fun, scary, and filled with lessons-
you are on the money with much of what you bring up, this will likely turn into flamebait for many literalists and Fundamentalists if they abound here...
nice link BTW

Apart form all the homocidal advice (kill sabbath workers,non beleivers,unruly teenagers,adulterers,homosexuals and slaves) the bible also rambles on about giants,fire breathing dragons,talking donkeys and witches ..plus lots more.
Strangely,it also never mentions cats or the word Sunday.
Hope this helps.

thanks to those who have answered thus far. i was hoping for more response from the christian camp too.

reply to post by justamomma


Oh Lordy...LOL....checked out that link...there is a lot to talk about indeed
but lets start with this quote from that site:

GE 2:15-23, 3:1-5, 1TI 2:14 Eve was created after Adam had already been given the prohibition about eating the forbidden fruit. Eve believed the serpent (the craftiest of all of God's wild creatures) when he assured her that she would become wise and would not die if she ate the fruit. Eve has been blamed for causing Adam to fall, and ultimately for the fall of mankind. (Note: Prior to eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve would have had no knowledge of right and wrong; they would not have known that it was a sin to disobey God or to obey the serpent. After they ate the forbidden fruit, God placed a guard around the "Tree of Eternal Life" to keep them from eating its fruit. He could have done the same for the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" before Adam and Eve disobeyed. In addition, even though the prohibition regarding the forbidden fruit was made to Adam before Eve came on the scene, Eve has been blamed for the Fall; 1TI 2:14 says: "... Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.")

Adam and Eve is one of the greatest love stories of all time - until Christ came along that is

Let's start here:
18 "And the Lord God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." 19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam to see what he would call them. And whatever Adam called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So Adam gave names to all cattle, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him."

Here we can determine that Adam requested a "comparable" companion for God first showed him every created creature before creating Eve for Him...

Now think how long it must have taken to name every animal/insect/fish in the world...Adam was busy for a VERY long time....then Eve is created...consider Adam's delight, and his responsibility to teach her and nuture her, and be a proper husband...

Then along comes the serpent who tells part of the truth to Eve - "You shall not surely die" - (meaning you won't die right away) - so she eats and sure enough she doesn't die right away - so she offers it to Adam who knows better but takes it anyway - Why did he do this? Was it just because he is weak and in thrall to his wife? No.....he ate because he knew she would die and he did not want her to die alone....he sacrificed his life for his friend - an act that was later repeated by Yeshua/Christ - however his initial disobedience was compounded by blaming God and then Eve - when God asks Adam - " Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?"- Adam says "The woman You gave to me, she gave me of the tree and I ate"...


One last point - Does obedience always require the knowledge of good and evil? For example - Is it good or evil for a child to put their hand in the fire that they are fascinated by? No... it is neither good nor evil - it is simply painful...so we teach them not to put their hands in a fire...how do we teach this? We forbid them long before they understand the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, to keep them from hurting themselves...and why? Because we love them...

Okies let me catch my breath and rest my typing fingers and maybe I'll come back for more a bit later - thanks for your OP - good post




L

I believe that it is the very absurdities that make the Bible worth reading, if for nothing else; an intellectual exercise. There is an old saying that says something like; "A person cannot consider themselves truly educated until one has read the Bible."

The problem we have as humans is the idea that; we must understand or apply rational reasoning to an irrational situation. If we cannot understand something, we immediately have contempt prior to investigation. It is the human condition. It is hard to imagine that there can be knowledge beyond our frame of reference. It is this possibility that intrigues me!

Perhaps it is these absurdities that can lead one to a different conclusion regarding the Bible. www.abovetopsecret.com...

I certainly believe that it was inspired, for no man could have been able to transmit it down for thousands of years and kept it relatively in tact. Yes, there are many missing books but we can get the jest of what is intended by what is part of the canon.

I find it the most intriguing to find the hidden messages. I am no longer religious, so I am not bound by keeping to Biblical religious understandings, or law. It is a real freedom to read it in an entirely different context.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet



I find it the most intriguing to find the hidden messages. I am no longer religious, so I am not bound by keeping to Biblical religious understandings, or law. It is a real freedom to read it in an entirely different context.

i agree w/ this whole heartedly. my stance is no longer "i have to prove it right", my stance when reading the bible is this: "what truth can "I" find in the bible."

there is true freedom when you can read any religious writing in such a manner.

my only reason for posing this question is bc i am curious how others come about answering the supposed "absurdities".

i do plan on posting how i view them, but i am just curious to see what others would have to say first.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by justamomma]

Wow, the person who created that website has the intelligence of a four year old.
Seriously, they are measuring the Bible by there own inferences common to modern references, there is no account of the fact of how old the scripture is and what times were like back then, plus they don't even take into account the scientific aspect and scientific possiblities.

That website is bunk.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Wow, the person who created that website has the intelligence of a four year old.
Seriously, they are measuring the Bible by there own inferences common to modern references, there is no account of the fact of how old the scripture is and what times were like back then, plus they don't even take into account the scientific aspect and scientific possiblities.

That website is bunk.

-Jimmy

instead of just throwing out your opinion of the website, can you throw out the reasons why you have these opinions in more detail? would be much more useful to me.

~thanks

reply to post by justamomma


hello

i thought you would list one or two any way

from the site

GE 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven(s) and the earth." (One might ask what "existed," and where God dwelt, before he created heaven and earth. Of course, if God were pure spirit the question could be considered moot, but inasmuch as the God of the Bible allegedly participated in a wrestling match, ate solid food, was seen face to face, spoke with Moses, etc., it would seem that he possesses physical attributes, including form

if God were pure spirit the question could be considered moot...

eh? you exist or you do not no matter Physical or not. secondly re pure spirit, this became flesh and dealt among us.

GE 1:12, 16 Plants began to grow before there was sunlight.

sorry where does it say growing??? notice the tree already fully grown with fruit? Ever planted something does it die at night??

Genesis 1:12-16 KJV

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day

You either believe or do not but arguing a point has to make some sense. If you are using the bible against itself then you have to understand it.

david





[edit on 16/6/2008 by drevill]

Originally posted by karl 12
Apart form all the homocidal advice (kill sabbath workers,non beleivers,unruly teenagers,adulterers,homosexuals and slaves) the bible also rambles on about giants,fire breathing dragons,talking donkeys and witches ..plus lots more.
Strangely,it also never mentions cats or the word Sunday.
Hope this helps.

what are you talking about,the bible doesnt say kill non believers,unruly teenagers,and certainly doesnt have talking donkeys........im puzzled,how did you come up with that.adulterers by the way were killed in old testament times,not in the new covenant,you ramble about things you dont know,and its not pretty

actually i guess it depends on how you view an "ass"! lol the bible does speak of a talking ass which is referring to a donkey. the actual place of reference is in numbers 22 (starting in vs 28, although to find out the "reason", you should read before that).

Originally posted by pureevil81

Originally posted by karl 12
Apart form all the homocidal advice (kill sabbath workers,non beleivers,unruly teenagers,adulterers,homosexuals and slaves) the bible also rambles on about giants,fire breathing dragons,talking donkeys and witches ..plus lots more.
Strangely,it also never mentions cats or the word Sunday.
Hope this helps.

what are you talking about,the bible doesnt say kill non believers,unruly teenagers,and certainly doesnt have talking donkeys........im puzzled,how did you come up with that.adulterers by the way were killed in old testament times,not in the new covenant,you ramble about things you dont know,and its not pretty

justamomma pointed out the donkey; but as for the other two see Deuteronomy 21, and Deuteronomy 18.


Here's the quotes in question(copy/pasted from the New Living Translation):

Deut. 21: 18-21-

" 18 “Suppose a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. 19 In such a case, the father and mother must take the son to the elders as they hold court at the town gate. 20 The parents must say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ 21 Then all the men of his town must stone him to death. In this way, you will purge this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid."

Deut. 18 6-11:

" 6 “Suppose someone secretly entices you—even your brother, your son or daughter, your beloved wife, or your closest friend—and says, ‘Let us go worship other gods’—gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known. 7 They might suggest that you worship the gods of peoples who live nearby or who come from the ends of the earth. 8 But do not give in or listen. Have no pity, and do not spare or protect them. 9 You must put them to death! Strike the first blow yourself, and then all the people must join in. 10 Stone the guilty ones to death because they have tried to draw you away from the Lord your God, who rescued you from the land of Egypt, the place of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear about it and be afraid, and no one will act so wickedly again.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Core90]

Most of the questions on that site are not thought out very well at all. Let's take this for instance:

The city of New Jerusalem (where the residents of heaven reside) is only about 1500 miles square.

If the author actually read the Bible he would have a deeper understanding of the scale of what he's talking about. Does he realize how big a 1,500 square mile city would be? Aside from that, it's also stated that the city is as high as it is wide. If we had a city 1,500 miles tall it would clean out most of the satallites that orbit Earth. The space station isn't even 200 miles up. I don't think you'd have any problems fitting every person ever born into a block that was 1,500 square miles. At any rate it doesn't say that everyone lives there. He'd have to find the scripture that states that no one can live in the country any more.

Before you balk at the size of this massive city, remember that prior to this we're told that there is a new heaven and a new earth. We aren't given the size of this new planet.

Skimming the list I didn't see anything that wasn't easy for a Christian to explain.

i can admit i was wrong,thank you....justamomma is correct,but you notice evry scripture pointed to about stoning people is old testament,not to be confused with the new testament(new covenant)...and by the way the new city of jerusalem as described in revalation i take as literally,you pointed out a jehovah witness point of view,and thats fine but its not fact,1500 hundred miles high and you think it would go into orbit and take out satellites,there wont be any satellites and im pretty sure god has not over looked this part,remember anything is possible with god....not to mention the new jerusalem is after the prophet isaiah saw a new heaven and new earth,and also john,the author of revelation..keep in mind please i do not want an argument,so lets keep this discussion civil......

reply to post by pureevil81


oh absolutely!! please, i agree. there is no point in arguing anything. i only started this bc i was curious how other individuals would answer if confronted w/ these things. i am not sure if anyone notices the "message" written at the top before the going into what the person considers the "absurdities." just bc one person explains it one way and another a different way, doesn't mean anyone has to specifically be rude or "prove" another wrong in a dogmatic way.

to me, anyone doing that, being rude over this, has missed the whole point christianity or any other religion.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by pureevil81

 

oh absolutely!! please, i agree. there is no point in arguing anything. i only started this bc i was curious how other individuals would answer if confronted w/ these things. i am not sure if anyone notices the "message" written at the top before the going into what the person considers the "absurdities." just bc one person explains it one way and another a different way, doesn't mean anyone has to specifically be rude or "prove" another wrong in a dogmatic way.

to me, anyone doing that, being rude over this, has missed the whole point christianity or any other religion.

so how about speaking in tongues,a friend of mine speaks in tongues,or he has before he doesnt do it all the time,i belive when he says its the spirit but i dont really buy into it ya know.....what does everybody think of speaking in tongues.....

reply to post by pureevil81


one of the churches i occasionally attend has members that both speak in tongues and are "slain in the spirit". not all the members participate and some participate in just one. i personally don't see the being "slain in the spirit" as something from the bible, but others disagree. as far as speaking in tongues, that was spoken of in the NT and many argue whether it should be done or not and what the purpose is/was.

like i tell anyone, although i have never felt compelled to do such, i wouldn't tell someone else they were wrong for it. i just really don't pay attention to whatever else is doing when i go. i am kind of there for my own thing, ya know?

the other church i occasionally attend is very much against it. which is, again, fine by me.

my beliefs are constantly being redefined the older i get and the more aware of my surroundings and of others that i become, these things don't necessarily become a defining factor for the condition of one's heart in my opinion.


now, come speak tongues over me and i will probably walk away, cuz if i can't understand you, for all i know, you could be speaking curses against me. lol

i have had a couple of ppl try to sway (gently push) me into falling over when they were "praying" for me and i will call them out on it and ask them to quit "praying" over me. i have never had an experience, nor do i believe God (knowing me) would give me such an experience as being slain. even the very idea of it seems a ridiculous thing FOR ME to do personally as i would rather have a real experience based in logic than on emotion.


[edit on 24-6-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 24-6-2008 by justamomma]

well said,i assume if god wanted me to speak in tongues then so be it but im not going to pretend to speak in tongues,speaking of absurd though the tongues movement in churches....where everyone speaks in tongues and claim you must speak in tongues to be saved is wrong,even people i know that speaks in tongues sometimes agree.....just a few peoples opinion i guess