Calls for an EU army

As an American observer I must say. it seems more likely than not that you will see some form of EU military body capable of 'projecting' power.

Of course such action will be towards containing or eliminating a 'common' threat - which will be identified and commonly accepted within the context of your leadership structure.

Why? Perhaps because the UN no longer has faith that the US military can long endure the abusive misdirected application of power as it is being exercised by the corporate-junta infecting the American body politic. Those who lust for wealth and power above all else are 'burning the candle at both ends' in America, and the people will soon be moved to 'address' the problem. It is unlikely that a UN cry for action can be adequately addressed by US unilateral action - such as in Kuwait (that's a joke).

However, a well structured EU military force can guarantee the capital flow for the war machine. Isn't that special?

Originally posted by Ste2652
So how will an EU force solve that problem? German forces will still be limited by their constitution regardless of whether they fight under a NATO or EU flag.

I don't think it'll make a difference, and I don't want British forces at the beck and call of the EU. They're British, not European. The men and women who join do so to defend the United Kingdom and they swear an oath to the Queen.

you need to see the details of this treaty, individual constitutions are null and void, this treaty takes precedence. and forget sovereignty, almost everything will now be decided by brussels. national parliaments will only be show pieces to implement directives from the bureaucrats.

there are a couple of opt out clauses inserted for the UK and Ireland, but i suspect thats only because Ireland is having a referendum on it and so many UK citizens have a duel citizenship (in the north and emigrants and such) and can vote in it. if it passes in Ireland next week it can then be modified without another referendum, so you can bet it will.

and this is the secound attempt to get this constitution in place so even if it doesn't pass and has to be scrapped, they'll try it again. if we don't make sure our politicians don't pass it without asking us on the third attempt we only have ourselves to blame.

reply to post by babylonstew


as you imply about german soldiers marching again---it would be best for all of us if germany was only required to provide material assistance to a new eu army.
i believe that the leopard still has its spots and once the german military gets used to the old feelings-------it would quickly assume the motto of-----lead,follow or get out of the way.

Originally posted by yahn goodeyas you imply about german soldiers marching again---it would be best for all of us if germany was only required to provide material assistance to a new eu army.
i believe that the leopard still has its spots and once the german military gets used to the old feelings-------it would quickly assume the motto of-----lead,follow or get out of the way.

I fail to see the point of "german soldiers marching again". If any EU nation goes to war against another EU nation, the union will crumble, collapse and take the warring states with it. Keep in mind that its a monetary union... And money rules all.

But yeah, I hope the leopard still has its spots! Its not for nothing that the German Leopard 2 MBT has been named the best tank in the world and they should be the spearhead of the EU army (preferably with a 140mm main gun)

I have always thought EU will be a superpower competitor. Imagine how the world will be with 4 major superpowers -- US, EU, Russia, and China.

reply to post by Ste2652


so i presume the funding for such army would come from?
i mean would it be based on cost split evenly accrosss all members or like most cases larger chunks of costs going to the higher earners?

and as metioned before or if it hasnt welcome to the new America, just more liked then the old one

reply to post by infinite


I agree, NATO has outlived it's usefulness IMHO.
The Warsaw Pact it was created to defend against no longer exists.

It's time for a domestic EU military command to replace NATO.

It's been 50 years since WW2. The Cold War is over.
There is no reason for the US to have permanent military forces in Europe, and Europe should ask us (nicely) to leave.

The states that comprise the EU are now perfectly capable of defending themselves against any opponent on the globe without any help from us.

We're not "defending Europe" anymore, just wasting taxpayer money, and compromising the defense of the US itself.

Here's some crazy talk and I have said this for about 2 years now. The EU is the revival of the Roman Empire as prophecied by Daniel in the Old Testament. Correct me if I'm wrong but the EU has 10 permanent nation states right? 27 all together but 10 that are permanent and share duties as rulers of the EU for 6 month periods? If that's the case it sounds a lot like Revelation 17 verse 10-12.

10: And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (hitler/germany), and the other is not yet come (European Union); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11: And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition (the future president of the EU).
12: And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as king one hour with the beast.

Verse 12 sounds like the 6 month rotation of the 10 permanent nation-states of the EU. No offence to you europeans on the thread.... it's simply the governments and powers that be creating this scenario.

reply to post by guppy


Russia won't as much become a superpower like people would expect they in terms of military power. They are still indeed a major power in terms of military strength but their future power lies in the fact that they control a major economic source of power. Siberia is home to one of the largest oil reserves found on Earth.
You can read more about Russia's oil industry in Siberia in one of National Geographic's latest magazine issues.
In the meantime you can look at these pictures that go along with the article, I wasn't to find a weblink to the article itself however.
ngm.nationalgeographic.com...

Edit: Ah, found the article itself now.
ngm.nationalgeographic.com...


[edit on 6-6-2008 by spec_ops_wannabe]

Me thinks we should keeping an eye on dear old Tony Blair, he may very well be the force that could drag the UK into the EU. He has been stating that he is interested in uniting people, or something to that matter.

I posted this in another thread but it does fit here:

I have recently had some correspondence with the office of David Cameron, and his office has confirmed that any further treaty’s that give more power to the EU will be brought to the British people for them to decide, through a referendum. David Cameron will be the next Prime Minister in 2010 by the way. It also seems likely to me that the Irish people are going to say no to the Lisbon Treaty in six days, which will wreck it, at least for a while until they find another way of selling it. So it looks unlikely that Britain will join up to the European Super State.

I know only one person who thinks we should be ruled by Brussels and that is my mother, who lives in France by the way. Everybody else I know sees no reason why we should lose our sovereignty for the gain of absolutely feck all. The only reason this shambles has got so far is because it’s a creeping matter and most people hate politics. That will change when the realisation of the enormity of the European project is made clear. We are an island nation and we don’t need the EU.

Anyway if Russia attacked then we would fight as a group to defend ourselves as we have done before against one of our own.

At the end of the day the Labour Party are out of favour and out of ideas, they stand as much chance of winning the next election, has they do of winning on scratch cards every day for a month. But that isn’t their biggest problem: They tried New Labour (move to the right) and it’s all gone rotten. They can only move left now, back to the days of unelectable leftists. The Tories will win and they don’t do province politics.

I’ll post a snippet of the last mail I got:

“However, there is certainly a great deal that is wrong with the EU – the persistent attempts to take ever more powers from nation states, the mismanaged budget, the failures of the Common Fisheries Policy and, sadly, more – which is we have campaigned for reform and modernisation in the EU.

We believe in an open, flexible Europe and it has long been David’s view that elected representatives should not give up the powers they were elected to wield without asking the people who elected them first.

So we opposed the EU Constitution in principle, and that is why, now it has been brought back in substance under a different name, David, and his colleagues, are working so hard to hold Gordon Brown’s Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats to the election manifesto pledges they made to voters and get the referendum on the Lisbon EU Treaty we were all promised.

It is also why we have pledged that a Conservative government will amend the 1972 European Communities Act so that any new EU Treaty that transfers competences – essentially EU legal language for powers – from the UK to the EU would be subject to a referendum of the British people. This is because we strongly uphold the principle that people should have freedom and control over their own lives, and it should no longer be possible for Governments to hand over power to the EU without the British peoples’ explicit permission.”

In political speak we know you don't like Europe and will reject it, but we will let you have a vote on it. Referendums are rare here, politicians don't offer things they can't win.

reply to post by merka


i guess i came across the wrong way to you?

i never said that i expected germany to go militarily against the rest of her close neighbors on the european continent------but i cannot see germans wanting to be followers in a new army when it has been in their nature to aspire to be the leaders.

what i said before was not a put down against germany or german people.

reply to post by Ste2652


And so it begins...

Next you will have calls for a federalized and consolidated power.

Then you will have a struggle as the Federalist gain power.

Then you will have a civil war with Nationalist against Federalist..

A Federalized European Army against independant National armies..

The Federalist will win, and past National Identities will be a thing of the past.........


I think I know of a Union that once existed.. followed this same path .. hermmmm

reply to post by Rockpuck


You grossly overestimate countries of the EU. There is no way in hell that the EU countries would go to war over forming a United States of Europe. Especially considering 2 of them are nuclear powers (Britain & France), one of them being in bed with the US and the other being the 'old enemy'. This continent has seen more than its fair share of warfare and most of the population of the northern european countries cant stand the EU anyway.

As for Germany wanting to be the leader of a EU military force, that is sheer fantasy. The German armed forces are nothing like they used to be due to political/moral constraints. If any EU country was to lead a EU Army, it would be Britain or France.

If it came to it, rest assured the British people would once again rise to the challenge of a European Dictator.

Originally posted by Rock Ape
I personally think most of the EU are a tad jealous that after 1000 years the British soldier is still the best soldier in the world. And thats with defective and old equipment.... or No equipment at all.
Peace

I'm American born & bred and will trumpet the superiority of this nation over everyone else until the day I die, but I', about to make a decidedly un-American statement. The best soldier in the world isn't british, he's Australian. Those SOB's do more with less than any fighting force in the world today. I've heard stories from a couple guys I know that served in Iraq (one a Marine, two other Army) and they can talk all day about how no matter how crappy the conditions got or how much bitching the US and Euro troops were doing, the Aussies kept smiling when circumstances allowed it and kept fully disciplined when called for. That's in no way a put down to America's soldiers, we have the best overall millitary and by far the largest balls if our commanders in charge would simply allow them to swing them freely in battle.

Funny this, I have been talking with a Tory MP about this sort of thing today, he said that if the Conservatives came to power there WOULD be a referendum on the EU, he also asked the group that we were discussing with to raise there hands if they thought we should stay in the EU and a dead silence filled the air with a few up hands at the back. And as to Britain stopping another European Dictator, we'll be waiting on our cold little Island so we can take him (or her, wolf in sheeps clothing perhaps?) down and reclaim our Empire. OR is that just hopeful thinking?

Once europe becomes unified as an islamic state under one caliph, there will be no obstacles to creating an agressive, nuclear armed, islamic EU force. The Bible predicts that the EU will be preeminent, for a short pathetic time, until the Lord himself utterly destroys it.

They could contact the Trade Federation and have a droid army built for them! Or, if they can wait a little while, a clone army could be grown for them on Camino!

Sorry, but I couldn't resist with all this talk of empires and armies.

Who from Europe would join such an army out of "patriotism" ?
I am sure I won't. Even if I like France for example, if I would go to help them in a war I would not do it because they are in EU or something like that. My country is not Europe
So "they" will get an army of mercenaries , joining for the money.

Remember what happened to the EU constitution, they had to bypass the people's vote to get it implemented.
Maybe they will decide that each country's army should be part of the EU army, then when they need to impose NWO they just make sure they do not send natives from a country to police the same country.

Of course no country would accept foreign troops around imposing orders from EU - I mean no people, the leaders maybe but not the people, including me