Calls for an EU army

''We are all European citizens, including the Queen! Whilst not a British citizen, provisions in the Maastricht treaty make her a citizen of Europe and doesn't even recognise her as head of State!''

You might class yourself as European ..... I do not.

I am born British, but I am English by the grace of God.

Sorry, the European thing doesnt wash with most Brits. The sooner we pull out, the better, in my opinion.

I do agree though that the time for the US to pull its troops/bases out of Europe is well overdue (not to mention Diego Garcia as well) ..... the cold war was over a long time ago (This is not an anti US paragraph btw). NATO did its job and quite successfully, but its time now to disband it.

Originally posted by Wotan
You might class yourself as European ..... I do not.

Never said I did, chap. However, you whatever you "classify" yourself as it really doesn't alter the legality of the situation and that is you're a British citizen and a European citizen.

Originally posted by Wotan
Sorry, the European thing doesnt wash with most Brits. The sooner we pull out, the better, in my opinion.

I doubt any of what you just said. Seems your regurgitating typical Sun Anti-EU propaganda.

You cannot deny that membership of the EU has brought significant economic benefits to the UK and it's citizens. granted, the EU needs a major overhaul in it's bureaucracy and it's un0democratic systems, but I get the impression you'd rather have the UK pull out entirely and suffer in isolation.

The only reason the UK's economy is strong is because of free trade with the EU and serving as a bridge between the EU and the USA. Without the EU we would be looking at severe economic problems and would be shut out of trade with the EU.

“You cannot deny that membership of the EU has brought significant economic benefits to the UK and it's citizens.”

Has it borrocks, it as brought the Spanish new roads and the Bulgarians a new airport. It has brought Britain the sum of nothing.

Vote Europe, deny democracy. You people need to be worried, people have fought and died for less than subjugation in Britain. I’m not saying I’m one of them, but some will fight the faceless, corrupt regime shoved on us by the elite.

This fight isn’t over by a long chalk.

reply to post by Souljah


The EU is just the same as the US, the much-heralded bastion of freedom. It's human nature for us to group together, and with the ease of travel, our definition of "us" is going to get more and more encompassing.

It's a good thing. It's progress.

“It's a good thing. It's progress.”

Yeah the final solution was a good thing and progress if you favoured it. Shame I don’t, and I don’t support Britain selling her sovereignty cheap as a progressive thing. Send lists of benefits for Britain has a province in the EUSSR and persuade me.

“The only reason the UK's economy is strong is because of free trade with the EU and serving as a bridge between the EU and the USA. Without the EU we would be looking at severe economic problems and would be shut out of trade with the EU.”

Do you honestly believe a major world trading power will cease to exist if it keeps up its control over taxation and currency to this faceless lying bunch of regime builders?

I have never heard anything so naïve in my life.


[edit on 9-6-2008 by Infidel 101]

Norway as kept its independence and does good trade, why not us?

reply to post by Infidel 101


Norway does very well, economically, due to being the worlds 3rd largest oil exporter and also being massively rich on other vital mineral assets. Norway still participates, trade wise, with the EU under the EEA agreement and is also deeply tied into the EU anyway, despite claims of "it being outside the EU" which are, for all intents and purposes quite untrue.

Referendums in 1972 and 1994 indicated that the Norwegian people wished to remain outside the European Union (EU). However, Norway, together with Iceland and Liechtenstein, participates in the European Union's single market via the European Economic Area (EEA) agreement. The EEA Treaty between the European Union countries and the EFTA countries – transposed into Norwegian law via "EØS-loven"[23] – describes the procedures for implementing European Union rules in Norway and the other EFTA countries. This makes Norway a highly integrated member of most sectors of the EU internal market. However, some sectors, such as agriculture, oil and fish, are not wholly covered by the EEA Treaty. Norway has also acceded to the Schengen Agreement and several other intergovernmental agreements between the EU member states.

Norway

On the flip side, cost of living in Norway is some 25% higher than in the UK and 30% higher than the US. The standard of living they enjoy comes at the price of massive taxation and without the Oil and gas revenues, they would not be able to sustain it at all.

There is no comparison between Norway and the UK as the two situations are quite different.

We are not self sufficient in most, if not all, vital materials and do not have much of an industrial base to speak of due to being undercut by the developing countries like India and China. Without the EU, our service based economy would falter.

In order to be able to leave the EU and still be prosperous would require a wholesale change in the economic make up of the UK.

I read this thread and notice a lot of anti-American talk here. I, as an American would like to point out to the Brits, Irish, and any other European on this thread that you shouldn't hate on Americans. The biggest problem with my country right now is the fact that the SOB Bush has a trigger-happy attitude. My president has lied to me and most bi-partisan politicians in the U.S. lie to us. The purpose of the United States was never to police the world. We were to be a free and independent nation who didn't get involved in foreign affairs such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1 & 2, Bosnia, etc. I agree completely that the U.S. military overseas should come home and defend our own country from foreign attacks like those of 9-11-2001. We should be friends with countries and trade with countries but we should never have binding alliances or treaties with countries. All that does is bring us closer to a New World Order. I just want to add that I love my British brothers and my other European brothers but open your eyes and realize that a revived Roman Empire is in the works here.

“Norway does very well, economically, due to being the worlds 3rd largest oil exporter and also being massively rich on other vital mineral assets. Norway still participates, trade wise, with the EU under the EEA agreement and is also deeply tied into the EU anyway, despite claims of "it being outside the EU" which are, for all intents and purposes quite untrue.”

How you claim to be a proud Englishman while arguing for the destruction of Westminster and home rule is frankly shocking. Norway did not need to vote on the Lisbon Treaty because it didn’t apply. Norway pays to do trade on fair terms in Europe. That is the price they paid to keep their freedom. Britain is a very different prospect and very, very much more powerful and influential than Norway. Forget minerals, we are a different prospect.

There is absolutely no reason why Britain cannot operate outside of the European Super State, unless that state acts aggressively to rein us in. Our wealth comes from globalism; we invented it.

How far is the European Elite prepared to go to get their undemocratic state?

It sounds like the Irish are going to say NO.

Originally posted by flice
We have to understand that Europe regardless of what sheeple and politicians tell us, there WILL BE a united Europe.

Actually, the goal of the EU is not to form a "United States of Europe." I personally interviewed one of their representatives a few weeks ago, when I was in Belgium. This was a quote straight from his mouth, when I asked him if they plan on creating a single state.

Though their laws do trump state laws, they have no plans on uniting Europe as one state.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by DJMessiah]

reply to post by DJMessiah


That's nothing more than the U.S. president saying there was WMD's in Iraq and 5 years later we still see no WMD's. Politicians are bred to lie to the people in order to manipulate them in letting the government get away with anything while more and more freedoms are taken away.

If you have the laws, the ministers and the army then all you need is a flag. The European Super State is the goal, deny that all they will but you have to agree with them or be simply stupid to not see it and call it what it is.

The fact that it is being pushed through using subversive tactics and lies is utterly disgusting. Britain has done well on its own since the last invader landed on our shores and it WILL NOT collapse because we say no to a hated idea of provincial living in a larger state of disparate ideas, led by elites and favoured by the left.

It is wrong and has led some who would otherwise be happy to be forced to civil disobedience. The majority do not want it. DO NOT WANT IT. Is it going to take a civil war for the elitists to get the point?

I cannot believe that four of my near ancestors fought and two died so that Britain could be free of undemocratic tyranny, so that it can be given away for free by matured Communists, who believed in their university days that Communism was a good thing. You have to hate Britain to want it to disappear into a larger state. I am so angry that shaking my head feels inadequate.

It is a travesty of our nationhood, led by elites on the left and should be kicked into the long grass at the first opportunity.

Originally posted by Infidel 101
If you have the laws, the ministers and the army then all you need is a flag.

Lol! You do know that EU already has a flag, right?

I also foresee a European Country, but I care little because it wont happen for a long, long time. Facts are that Europeans are different. We're not at the point of being "states" like in the US. How long will it take for EU countries to get a common language to the point that borders dissolve and everyone feel they have a common heritage? I dont know, but until then it will remain a union.

reply to post by merka


If the union is under one constitution and one currency, then it's already it's own country... or at least it will be when the military is integrated to one.

Lol! You do know that EU already has a flag, right?

Yep and you just made my point, thank you.

reply to post by Infidel 101


Your welcome. And might I add that the U.S. is headed the same direction once the dollar falls off the face of the planet. It will be replaced with the Amero and Mexico and Canada will be integrated to create the North American Union. Talk about a S#it storm! There goes our freedom as well. I'll be carrying a gun.

Originally posted by Ste2652


I'm not sure I like where this is going. For European defence, we have NATO. For expeditionary operations I see no reason why we can't dispatch forces together when necessary (a command system like the one used in Afghanistan could be used), rather than having to create (and pay for) another layer of bureaucracy in Brussels 'just in case'.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Is this a way to create a "prison system" for the poor and wretched by the union members?

Create a "new" branch to siphon "expendable" soldiers to areas less kind to each of their own forces?

Urban theorist Mike Davis analyzes urban peripheral areas in terms of a commitment to social change. A single sentence synthesizes his analysis: "It's the slum peripheries of poor Third World cities that have become a decisive geopolitical space."2 He asserts that Pentagon strategists are lending great importance to urban planning theory and architecture, since the peripheries are "one of the most challenging terrains for future wars and other imperialist projects."

In fact, a study by the United Nations estimates that one billion people live in peripheral neighborhoods outside Third World cities and that the poor in the largest cities in the world number some two billion, that is, a third of all human beings. These statistics will double within the next 15 or 20 years, and "all future growth of the world's population will occur in cities, 95% of it in cities of the Global South and the majority in slums."

americas.irc-online.org...

Many people can’t afford essential clothing – or to heat their homes. Children go to school hungry, or to bed without enough food. It’s no coincidence that poor communities are in poorer health – and have shorter life expectancy.

It’s not just outrageous – it’s unnecessary. With enough public pressure for change – and enough political will – our politicians can put this right.

www.oxfam.org.uk...

The gap between rich and poor in the UK is as wide as it has been for 40 years, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation warns.

The JRF found that households in already wealthy areas had become "disproportionately" richer compared with society as a whole.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I’m British so the guns are off the table, I have a mean Doberman though and a catapult.

reply to post by Infidel 101


Cool. A nazi dog and a medeval weapons system. You can do some damage with those two things!