Report: Blackwater buys Brazilian-made fighter plane

Its coin, as in 'one dollar coin'.

Oh and private armies ......

I have no idea as I live in the UK - but Black water is sure as heck one hell of a mean old company. (saved alot of lives in iraq and did some real good work, but also had some jack arses wanna be's itching to kill folks in it as well)

Originally posted by Johnmike

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
COunter INsurgency. Basically a weapon for asymmetrical warfare against less heavily-armed, unregimented opponents.

That makes me wonder, do you say it like "coin" or "co in"?

Originally posted by The NighthawkAnd yes, it is rather unsettling that a private company has been allowed to essentially raise its own army and begin its own air force. The Constitution actually forbids it...

Where?

I concede I can find nowhere in the Costitution expressly forbidding it. I thought I had read such when the first thread about Blackwater's private air force came up. However there is division among Constitutional scholars as to what, exactly, constitutes a "well-regulated militia" and whether private militias or corporate paramilitary organizations are legal under that definition.

Source

The problem arises with private 'armies' ONLY when the federal government employes them in a capacity that is traditionally a military one. In THAT instance the private 'army' is UNCONSTITUTIONAL as the Constitution allows for ONLY such armies as it defines and gives authority over. The so-called unregulated militia notwithstanding.

There is a very real probability that George Bush as Commander in Chief by authorizing the use of a private 'army' in combat is in serioous violation of the Constitution. The framers were very careful in their wording as regards military matters. For good reason they knew the dangers that would be posed if a President or other high official maintained a private army.

One last thing, the fact that the Executive Branch IS maintaining a private army under the auspices of its office, is the fact that federal revenues are paying these people AND the private armies are NOT answerable to Congress, which has sole control over such expenditures.

Source

There is some controversy here. Personally I don't think we should be using "private contractors" (mercenaries) at all, and I sure as Hell don't think we should be paying them with taxpayer dollars. We have an official standing military for a reason--they are loyal to the Constitution. Private paramilitary forces are loyal only to money, and their use in combat under the US flag, I think, is a dangerous precedent.

guys, you really are a breath of fresh air from so many other threads.
The Constitutional issue is huge and exciting from my standpoint (2nd year law student) The single most important event for me this summer is the Supreme Courts decision on the 2nd amendment. I want to know exactly what they are going to say about the "well regulated militia" and I have said if they say it is the National Guard, then I am moving to England and do what it takes to be a Solicitor or Barrister....
But what a good question. If the executive branch controls Blackwater then that has to be unconstitutional. It would be like their private army.
But that is what they are kind of, isn't it? What the hell?
Now other than this thread, I have heard nothing about this, but it should get media attention because we really should know what role Blackwater really plays. I'm sorry, but this is just amazing to me. the Executive branch having their own private army and equiping them right under our noses.
Has Tom Clancy got a hold of this plot yet? I really have to be missing something with this whole issue. It just couldn't be this easy for them.

The Super Tucano is mainly used for training (same cockpit as a "modern" jet fighter) , also used in the amazon forest where drug planes usualy fly through because of the wide plane areas. SuperTs are used to identify those planes and make sure not to put a civilian plane down.

Who needs Military martial law when BlackWater can do it?

It seems like this plane would be good for scouting. Say there is a city and you don't want people getting in or out, just put one of these up in the sky and you can circle the city alot easier than you could with an extremely fast moving jet.

Also good for taking out some relatively small targets. Vehicles and such.

Also does anybody know how much Blackwater soldiers get paid? Is it more than the Army or Marine guys or less?

reply to post by C0le


Ahh yes my thoughts exactly.

When our soldiers don't turn on America, Blackwater sure as hell will.

I'm gonna reach into the further depths of reality here - but hey this is the site to do it

I could imagine that in the event of massive electro magnetic disturbances (either from weapons or nature, such as solar flare activity) you could get one of these super Tuccanos into the air much faster than a complex fighter jet - simply keep your spare electrics in a Faraday cage - whip out the old and whip in the new! In the land of the blind the one eye'd man is king

Oh dear it must be late - but I'm actually considering keeping spare electrics for my motorcycle in a home made Faraday cage for such an event - mind you I should probably make the motorbike work in the first place, else it is a pointless exercise.

reply to post by theendisnear69



On average 4 times more than their counterparts in the military if they are just a hump and grunt trigger puller. More technical i.e. helo pilots 8 - 10 times military pay.

As for them being used in America against americans, they did in new orleans and did a weapons search and seizure stint as fully federalised marshalls.

Uh huh, go lookee see for your selves.

reply to post by theendisnear69


If Im not mistaken these things can also carry 500 pound bombs.. I noticed the live MK82's under the wings at the end of the youtube video with the fuses and the arming wire all ready to go. Just one of those is gonna level a building and kill anyone nearby.

In the photos..
This thing may look like snoopy.. But don't let it fool you this thing is darth friggin vader!

Not to change the subject but..
What scares me is this chinese stealth aircraft supposedly currently in development...

The aircraft features two .50" machine guns (200 rounds each) in the wings. Five hard points under the wing and fuselage allow up to 1,500 kg of weapons for most configurations. The aircraft's inboard stations, as well as its ventral one, are "wet" for external fuel tanks.
In addition to its two internal machine guns, the Super Tucano can be configured with additional underwing armament, such as two 20mm gun pods or .50" machine guns, thereby significantly increasing its firepower for missions requiring air-to-ground saturation. ternal stores on 5 hardpoints

Outboard stations allow the loading and firing of short-range air-air missiles of the AIM-9 class.

All stations can be loaded with the Mk 81 or Mk 82 (conventional or equipped with guidance kits) bombs, SBAT-70/19 or LAU-68 rocket launchers.

Tucano is the standard RAF pre fast jet trainer.

In other words, they have bought the precursor to something. How long till they start buying the main ingredients.

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Yeah that's what I was afraid of. The more money you make the easier it is to do whatever your commanded. IMO it's a disgrace to our real armed forces that the blackwater thugs get paid more.

America is screwed. ... screwed plus planes with bombs and guns...

They are already using the pain-beams on them along with US police in black uniforms with tasers and military weaponry. They use those tasers everyday, all day and the stupid Americans do absolutely nothing to stop them.

Don't forget the Free Speech Zones (aka Mobile Detention Arenas)

America sure looks like a fascist state to me.

gee, one of those flying low could be theoretically harmed by a massive fireworks display, lol. so if you live south of the mason dixie, specifically south of Virginia, you're a-okay if Blackwater comes a-knockin'!

I've got my own personal arsenal of .. bottle rockets.. lol

reply to post by runetang


That's all very well if you see them coming. I watch the RAF Tucanos a lot around Norfolk and they train low level so many times you hear them but don't actually see them until they are right on top of you. Under those circumstances it's probably imprudent to hang around and launch your "bottle rocket" as he's lining up on you with a pair of 50 calibres.

Seriously though, this ups the stakes a huge amount when a "private security" company starts buying offensive aerial hardware and is allowed to do so by the government. I doubt they are going to be using it for training purposes either as there are plenty of jet jockeys available should they want something faster and heavier. It'll be interesting to see what weapons fit this aircraft has and whether any further purchases are made.

When they add a refueling probe

I'd start to worry..TAC air makes good sense if your inserting a team in indian country. One wonders if they have UCAV's on their want list as well.
If you really need eyes on target then a fighter makes limited sense..but I wonder why they are buying yesterdays technology..perhaps to fly in South America..say Venezuela? Flying a plane that is common to region may make perfect sense...and confuse your adversary just long enough for you to gain the advantage. I would think a Predator would do the air to ground job pretty well if they are planning on taking out an aircraft in a fluid situation then perhaps having a man in the cockpit to make the final decision is worth the limitations that having a human in the loop imparts.
This little purchase as public as it is makes my wheels start turning I wonder if Chavez & Castro are wondering too. Perhaps thats the point of it all.
I would be interested in the AVIONICS that they put in the plane..if its set up for C3I/ELINT or Recon work. Ferry range on the aircraft with external drop tanks would be interesting to know too. Only one aircraft might indicate a more peripheral role, I would be more worried if they bought a pair and a spare. Single point failure on a critical task would be an unacceptable risk.
So to my mind its more likely an asset to round out capability than a mission
specific purchase. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Blackwater is a mercenary group, guns-for-hire, who are not held to oblige by ordinary military convention.


The Iraqis know all about these individuals of course. Innocents have died at Blackwater's hands, and nobody can seemingly touch them for it, besides when the mercenaries "get theirs" at the hands of the Iraqis themselves.


Blackwater and other Merc companies like them are made up of ex-military, but just think, why are they 'ex-military'? Not all of them have simply ended their stint in the services naturally, I am sure, judging by their 'incidents' in Iraq.


I have heard several stories of how the US and UK military in Iraq dislike Blackwater intensely.


These guns-for-hire are precisely that, guns-for-hire. They have no loyalty except to cash or cheque in hand, and they are growing more powerful, slowly but surely.


The US Government is the highest bidder at the moment, so can use it for it's own ends, in wars.


If the US government imposes martial law, or goes to out and out war with it's people, Blackwater and it's fellow mercs will most likely be there if there is cash to be had.


If you know of their adventures in Iraq, then you better know what that means.


As Mercenaries, and guns-for-hire, they have no loyalty to any nation, but to the highest bidder.


But, from the viewpoint of America, let us say, what if it is outbid in vying for the services of these mercenaries by someone else, a nation or group?


What then?


Remember: Guns-for-hire. Helicopters-for-hire, Planes-for-hire, armed personnel-for-hire.



To the highest bidder. No cause but cash, no job too small.




[edit on 3-6-2008 by Regensturm]