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Raw Video: APD officer confronts KOB photographer

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posted on May, 31 2008 @ 02:03 AM
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It definitely looks like the officer overstepped his bounds in attacking the cameraman.
It is completely legal to take photos of anything at all when you are on public land. Buildings, people, events, you name it, if you can see it without doing anything illegal, you can take a photograph of it. Much to the chagrin of police officers, this includes them as well. They don't like it, and there are many many videos and stories all over the internet of police officers intimidating, arresting and attacking photographers because either they don't understand the law, or don't agree with it.

When I do street photography I carry a little legal guide and have highlighted the appropriate laws that say what I'm doing is completely legal, in case anyone decides they don't like what I'm doing.

The best that can be done is for people to remain aware of their rights, and fight for them if need be.




posted on May, 31 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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I had a personal event myself...i lve in stamford CT. About 9 years ago, i purchased a 1984 ford tempa from a small shop mechanic...said it was his mothers car, she was old and didnt drive anymore so was seeling it. SO i bought it. He gave me a temporary paper plate to use, while i was getting it registered. I had gone about 30 miles norht, to Trumbul, bridgeport...Trmubull mall. Upon leaving and entering the highway(Merrit parkway) a brideport cop pulls me over... says to me, does this car belong to mrs. (forget her name), an 82 year old woman? I told him i dunno, i jsut bought it from a mechanic. So, he asks me to get out of the car, and i did. 5 minutes later, 2 other cops showed up. The cop entered my car, tore the lining off the inside rrof, emptied my ash tray al over the floor, and removed everything from the glove compartment. I got nervous, bcause he was touching his nightstick alot, and the cop loked at me, smiling saying why are you nervous. He says to me, why dont you open the trunk, see if you have any drugs or bodies in thier!! I didnt but my heart was poudningg heart attack fast... i didnt like how he kept eye contact with me, smiling in a wiseass manner, and hand his hands on his nightstick, and having 2 of his buddies thier, just for me?
They impounded the car, and handcuffed me, telling me it was for my own safety, drove me back to the mall, where i called my father to pick me up.
NExt day, i saw the mechanic, and wanted to confront him about the paper liscense plate, he told me was legite. HE sees me and says, you F____ up didnt you) i didnt question how he knew...
I remember years ago, here in stamford, a freind of mine, alwasy drove drunk, unregistered, no liscense, and was high alot, got pulled over from time to time, and the cops would always mess with him, but let him drive home.... menaing they let a high, and drunk, unregistered vehicle, with the muffler in trunk go, meanwhile us good samaratin drivers are hassled by the cops... in one incident, he wa pulled over, adn the cop says, whos car is this...frined answers its my firneds car, bu h is letting me drive it..cop looks to his freind, asks same question, smae answer. Cop asked 4 times, then asked how much he paid for the car...friend answers $400.
Cop shakes his head, removes flashlight form his face, goes back to his car, drives off. My frined loked at his friend, WTF was that all about.. its kinda funny, but makes ya think.
I another case, he and frineds went to Pantera concert in woodstock back in 95. Coming home a state trooper pulls them over, smae thing unregistered car, ect. cop says to them...you bouys are messed up hugh?
Yes officer ect they were truthful. Cops says, okay heres what your gunna do...drive home (high and drunk) but, IF I hear about you again tonight, IM coming for you personally.
funny, but true stories. Just makes me think, why the good ones get messed with, and the guilty ones get let go.?



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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They really are like a gang... those scummy polices, destroying freedom, god they like it! Those type of polices are a legalized gang, that's all what they are. They destroy the constitution, if you talk back to them they beat you up, they deal drugs, they make up charges on you, they suicide you if you really mess with them. They really are the mafia.

Thank god there's still some good officers... but they should clean their ranks and put them in jail for 20 years for abuse of public trust and release all those in jail for marijuana.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 03:06 AM
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Everyone relax I mean after all, It's not like this type of thing is happening all the time now this is an isolated incident.




posted on May, 31 2008 @ 03:52 AM
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reply to post by C0le
 


You're being sarcastic right?
Great.

I mean, I don't think that in Nazi Germany toddlers were arrested because they fell asleep in class because they were at their mother's hospital bed the night before... or that they gave you a fine because your bin was put in position too early, or because you drop ashes in the street...

[edit on 31-5-2008 by Vitchilo]



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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i always carry a camera in my vehicle at all times , never leave home without it, for the simple reason that when an officer knows that you have one and in conjunction with knowing your rights they usually will take things a little cautious with you . on the american civil liberties union website aclu
they have this easy to print easy to read little card of what to do if your pulled over by the police. i always carry this on my person too .
i suggest that everyone carry one with you right next to your drivers license especially if your younger and might not absolutely clear on what your allowed during a traffic stop.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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I feel the need to explain a few things now...

First photographers are not out roaming the streets looking for something to take a picture of...
What happens normally you have a meeting and a list of stories that will be covered that day and your dispatched to said event...

when you work the city desk we just hang out until the producer says go...
TV news has a producer not an editor...

Anyway when you get on scene all the action is long over. the crime scene is taped off...the bad guy is most likely already on his way to be processed. so when you hop out of your truck the only thing left to film, If your lucky, is a few cop cars with their lights flashing and maybe a closeup of the street signs to show where it all happened... that's all there is and that's what you film, later a talking head will voice over the story... simple that's the way its always been done... that's what you get paid to do and everyone is very used to that...

So what went wrong?
this time the cops had a shoot out with the bad guy who, when the photographer showed up was still on the lose... tempers and fear flared. The reporter didn't know he might be in a dangerous place and the cop did tell him he couldn't be there... Like any normal person would, he simply asked, "Why not"? the officer took that question to be a challenge and overreacted! Rather than hit the photographer how hard would it have been to just say, "look, the shooter is still out here somewhere? for your own safety please go to the staging area and someone will give a statement".... Well that does use up a lot of breath and takes a few seconds to say... lot faster to gut someone with a night stick right?



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:07 AM
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Originally posted by Griff
I wonder why the police are so scared of actual photographic evidence of the crime and crime scene? What are they scared of?


The photographer was placing himself in harms way approaching a dangerous scene like that. He could have been shot by the criminal.

If that happened, the same people here attacking the officers for arresting the photographer, would be attacking the officers for not preventing the photographer from getting hurt.

BTW I find this particular situation funny, because before I started my career in law enforcement, I worked for a newspaper as a photographer and have a 2 year degree in photography. Was a starving artist though and got a better job making 3x as much money in law enforcement.

But I just find it funny this topic is about Photography vs. Police when I do both.




posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:25 AM
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After watching the video, here are my thoughts.

First of all, the photographer with a huge ego was a *snip* and provoked the officer. If he would have been respectful and polite, the situation could have been avoided. Shouting things like "see was that so hard" and "no im going to keep filming you" in a sarcastic voice at an officer is usually not a good idea. He could have also moved to the media staging area as instructed, but he sat there filming the officer with the light from the camera right in his face, even after his question was answered and he learned where the media staging area was. You could also pretty much tell he was baiting the officer to attack him, he wanted a cop attack on tape. It would make a good story and boost his career. So I guess he got what he really wanted.

Second, yes the officer did overreact. He didn't need to lunge at the photographer suddenly like that. You could clearly tell the officer was getting irritated, and the photographer knew this and kept provoking him, but the officer should have just gave the photographer a warning and said "if you do not stop filming, I am going to arrest you" instead of lunging at him like he did.

But this is far from police brutality. It's a rookie officer, who has never been in this situation before, and he made a mistake. Big deal.


One final point, as usual the media is full of it and can't get their facts right. "13 months on the force and 7 months on the street" is what they say about the 'offending' officer. What? First of all, your first 1 year with any police department is a probationary period, which the whole time you are on the street. Unless of course it's a sheriff's department, he could have spent time working in the sheriff's jail until moving onto the street, but the APD isn't a sheriff's department. Furthermore and most importantly, the first 1 year a new recruit is on the probationary period, that is his FT (Field Training) stage. For the entire year he will be under the supervision of a seasoned FTO (Field Training Officer). Where was the FTO? This rookie seemed to be alone and acted alone with no supervision.

Clearly, even though the media says the officer was "7 months on the street", because there was no FTO and the rookie acted with no supervision, the rooker had to have at least 12 months on the street, not 7 months.



Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 31-5-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

[edit on 31-5-2008 by InsiderInfo]



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by ironman433
i always carry a camera in my vehicle at all times , never leave home without it, for the simple reason that when an officer knows that you have one and in conjunction with knowing your rights they usually will take things a little cautious with you


Not necessary, if the police pulled you over, they will have their overhead lights on. And in almost all police cars nationwide, if the overhead lights are switched on, video automatically starts recording. So they already know they are being recorded, and if they do something wrong you can file a complaint or lawsuit and the PD's own footage will be used.

Even worse, politicians want to install cameras now on police officer's guns to see what the officers are shooting at. The big problem with this is, the cameras they want to install also have a light on them when the camera is on. Hmm, picture yourself as an officer chasing a dangerous criminal in the streets at night, who has hidden somewhere. You want the element of surprise - all of the sudden a retarded light on your gun flicks on when the camera starts recording, and gives away your position like a lighthouse beacon. The criminal shoots and kills you. Yeah, such a good idea there with the lights/cameras on the guns.

And it gets worse, politicians are now wanting to chip/implant officers with cameras built into THEM, and a tracking system.

Heh, citizens think they have to deal with big brother and being controlled/spied on - trust me, police officers do to.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
It definitely looks like the officer overstepped his bounds in attacking the cameraman.


He did overreact and didn't act correctly, but I wouldn't call it an "attack". Plus he is a rookie, and has never been in the situation before.


Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
It is completely legal to take photos of anything at all when you are on public land. Buildings, people, events, you name it, if you can see it without doing anything illegal, you can take a photograph of it.


Correct, and here's a card you can print and keep with you that tells you your rights as a photographer, I highly recommend it. www.krages.com...

Of course, while it's legal to take photos of anything on public land, it's also illegal to disrupt police on duty and preventing them from carrying out their job. And it's also an officer's duty to protect bystanders from getting hurt, even if it means arresting them and bringing them into custody. If a suicide jumper is stopped by police, do they just let him go? No, they arrest him and bring him into custody, even though it's to protect him.

In this case, the photographer was placing himself in harm's way and was asked to leave the area repeatedly, but refused. It then became the officer's job and lawful duty to remove the photographer forcefully to prevent any harm from coming to him.


Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Much to the chagrin of police officers, this includes them as well. They don't like it, and there are many many videos and stories all over the internet of police officers intimidating, arresting and attacking photographers because either they don't understand the law, or don't agree with it.


Of course they don't like it. Would you like it if someone came to your job and started filming you with a camera in your face and refused to leave after you told them to leave?

As far as those videos, all I have seen is cameramen provoking police officers to get a reaction, "real-life trolling" if you will.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by InsiderInfo
 

let me start off with saying freedom of speech dude . being sarcastic is not a crime and not any kind of justification for arrest or ruffing someone up . your statement is lame and is also the problem with our law enforcement today. unfortunately for the good officers the bad ones like yourself make it difficult to have respect for ANY cop.
and the part about it's a mistake he's a rookie officer is a joke . even my 12yr old would know the difference between right and wrong in that situation .
maybe you need to come up with a different way to justify the action's of the mentally challenged rookie on the video or maybe you should give it up all together because there is and was absolutely no reason for the actions of that officer.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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We live in a state of Marshal Law. The police have a tremendous amount of power of us. Most of us don't realize just how much power, until we cross paths with police. We have given a piece of our freedom to "feel" safe. In fact, the police do not save you. The police will never be there when you are robbed or stabbed. They will be there to write you a speeding ticket, or to arrest you for demonstrating, etc. This is not the same for firefighters or E.M.T. services, don't get me wrong. We could do without police.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by ziggy1706

funny, but true stories. Just makes me think, why the good ones get messed with, and the guilty ones get let go.?


Officers act on their own discretion. What you get from one officer will not be what you get from another. When I was younger I got pulled over by police twice. First time was for speeding, 15 over. The cop was a huge jerk, acted like a robot and just handed me my ticket. The second time I got pulled over for not using my directional, I was lost and it was 4am only car on the road. The officer was very nice, joked with me he pulled me over because he had nothing better to do, and gave me directions on how to get where I needed to go.

When you sign up for any police department and take the oral board interview, one of the questions will usually be "would you write your own mother a speeding ticket?" The correct answer is no. Who would write their own mother a ticket? The officers on the oral board are not dumb, and if you say you would write your mom a ticket, they know you are lying through your teeth, and would probably not hire you. Point is, if you really did catch your mom speeding, it's entirely up to you if you wanna give her a ticket or not.

Believe it or not, just talking loud in public and being annoying can fall under disorderly conduct (a very blanket term), which is a misdemeanor is many states and has mandatory jail time. Can any officer arrest you for being loud or being annoying? Yes they can. It's entirely up to them. Will most of them do it? Nah. Police officers are people too. Sure some of them are jerks, but there are jerks in any profession.

And how this relates to you (although I think your stories are tall tales) is that with the DWI incidents, it's entirely up to the officer, again, if he wants to arrest them or not. I would say the officer letting a drunk driver go is failure to perform his duty, and he would probably be fired, but again, it's still up to to the officer.

The whole point of officers acting on their discretion is, there are circumstances. Someone who is driving drunk, might not be dangerous, might just have had 1 beer and the officer can tell he is pretty sober. Is the guy breaking the law? Yes. Is he a danger though? No, and the officer can sense this. On the other hand, someone else could be driving drunk, be violating the same law, but be heavily drunk and swerving everywhere. He's breaking the law, and IS a danger. The officer can sense this, and will arrest him.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by ironman433


let me start off with saying freedom of speech dude . being sarcastic is not a crime and not any kind of justification for arrest or ruffing someone up .


I never said it was a crime, I said it was a bad idea to go around antagonizing police and not expecting them to respond. Some of you anti-police folk are hilarious, you expect to just go around harassing police officers and expect nothing to come of it because of your rights which you probably can't even recite.


Originally posted by ironman433
your statement is lame and is also the problem with our law enforcement today. unfortunately for the good officers the bad ones like yourself make it difficult to have respect for ANY cop.


How is my statement 'lame'? And you have no right to call me a bad cop and I take offense. What is your basis of that? I'd like to hear this one.


Originally posted by ironman433
and the part about it's a mistake he's a rookie officer is a joke . even my 12yr old would know the difference between right and wrong in that situation .



Ok let's dress your 12 year up in police uniform and give him a gun and badge. He sounds like a pro, doesn't even need the 14 weeks, 8 hours a day of police academy. Sounds like he (and you) already know what officers don't know about their job.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:17 AM
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this guy just showed his colors by , as usual for most cops , changing his story. now all of the sudden it's loud and annoying instead of sarcastic. it figures he would change it to fit his story instead of what he originally said . and i emplor you to show us in any law book where it says that being annoying is a crime punishable by arrest and imprisonment . please for all of us who are retarded to the laws and constitution of the united states show us that law in writing. if you really are involved in law enforcement than you are a serious problem to anyone that you come in contact with on the job



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by ironman433
this guy just showed his colors by , as usual for most cops , changing his story. now all of the sudden it's loud and annoying instead of sarcastic. it figures he would change it to fit his story instead of what he originally said


I wasn't even replying to you with that post where I said "loud and annoying" and it had nothing to do with our argument, it was an example for the other poster. Look, you can look right at the name in the quote. Is it yours?
Please, just stop arguing before you make yourself look any more silly.


Originally posted by ironman433
. and i emplor you to show us in any law book where it says that being annoying is a crime punishable by arrest and imprisonment . please for all of us who are retarded to the laws and constitution of the united states show us that law in writing. if you really are involved in law enforcement than you are a serious problem to anyone that you come in contact with on the job


Disorderly Conduct is described well here:
en.wikipedia.org...
As I said in my post, it's a blanket term, or as that article words it, "a catch-all statute".

Disturbing the peace, and loitering fall under disorderly conduct. If you are being loud and annoying, and someone complains, yes you are disturbing the peace and yes an officer CAN arrest you legally as you violated the law. Will most officers arrest you? No, and I wouldn't do it myself. But they can. And it has happened. I had an online-friend from Illinois who was at a concert, and he was being loud and obnoxious, and someone complained. He was then arrested by a nearby officer and brought to the local jail.

And loitering, is again, very generic of a term with a very loose definition. If you are hanging out in one spot for too long, yes, you can also be arrested for that. Generally only if someone, such as property owner, complains though.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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Originally posted by InsiderInfo

Originally posted by ironman433


I never said it was a crime, I said it was a bad idea to go around antagonizing police and not expecting them to respond. Some of you anti-police folk are hilarious, you expect to just go around harassing police officers and expect nothing to come of it because of your rights which you probably can't even recite.
the only thing i expect from a police officer is to act professional even in the face of fear "like a scary ol cameraman "


How is my statement 'lame'? And you have no right to call me a bad cop and I take offense. What is your basis of that? I'd like to hear this one.
your trying to justify the actions of another cop who is acting unprofessional and out of line . thats one of the trates of a bad cop .





Ok let's dress your 12 year up in police uniform and give him a gun and badge. He sounds like a pro, doesn't even need the 14 weeks, 8 hours a day of police academy. Sounds like he (and you) already know what officers don't know about their job.

hell me 8yr old could handle more pressure than that .
i would love to see you or any cop try what i do for a living . what you call pressure i call milk and cookies.



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by ironman433

Originally posted by InsiderInfo

Originally posted by ironman433


I never said it was a crime, I said it was a bad idea to go around antagonizing police and not expecting them to respond. Some of you anti-police folk are hilarious, you expect to just go around harassing police officers and expect nothing to come of it because of your rights which you probably can't even recite.
the only thing i expect from a police officer is to act professional even in the face of fear "like a scary ol cameraman "


How is my statement 'lame'? And you have no right to call me a bad cop and I take offense. What is your basis of that? I'd like to hear this one.
your trying to justify the actions of another cop who is acting unprofessional and out of line . thats one of the trates of a bad cop .





Ok let's dress your 12 year up in police uniform and give him a gun and badge. He sounds like a pro, doesn't even need the 14 weeks, 8 hours a day of police academy. Sounds like he (and you) already know what officers don't know about their job.

hell me 8yr old could handle more pressure than that .
i would love to see you or any cop try what i do for a living . what you call pressure i call milk and cookies.


Would you like to share what you do for a living? Does it compare to getting your teeth kicked out by a criminal resisting arrest, getting shot at by drug dealers, getting bled on by scummy drug users with cuts that have AIDS and other blood bourne diseases, staying awake for 24+ hours at a time on the job because that bank holdup doesn't want to end and you just can't go home when your shift is up like civilian jobs, you stay until the job is done and the bank robbers are in custody even if they are holed up for 20 hours?

Being the first responder to a vehicle accident and saving the lives of a family, saving the life of a suicide jumper who made a bad decision, tackling a sicko with a knife threatening to kill children, while wanting no thank you for it beacuse you are "just doing your job"?

What's the difference between a police officer and a criminal? The police officer will shoot the criminal, then administer first aid and call ambulance, and make sure the criminal lives and save his life. The criminal on the other hand, will shoot the police officer, and when police officer is on the ground, kill him and flee.

On the good days, police officer is the best job in the world, on the bad days, it's the worst job in the world.



[edit on 31-5-2008 by InsiderInfo]



posted on May, 31 2008 @ 09:34 AM
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wikipedia is not a law book buddy . please whip out your law book and show us where it says being either sarcastic or annoying to a cop is a crime !!!
thank god for you we will never have an encounter because i would own your job within a week.



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