Cointel Pro within ATS?

reply to post by MrdDstrbr



Sorry for shouting... Forgive me will ya?

After three years of openly touting that ALL the Alphabet Agencies read ATS regularly, it just astounds me that anyone who has been around a while, would wonder if they do... Especially after we have continuously SHOUTED OUT that they, in fact DO.

I mean does anyone do research anymore? It;s all here with a simple ATS Google search... (not picking on you specifically MrdDstrbr)

Springer...

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


Like YOU need a reason to do a RANT!!!!

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

I don't see anything wrong with any issue being discussed as long as it is within the T&C of course.. The problem is, "being discussed to death"....

This issue has been brought up UMPTEEN times in just the two years I have been here, and as was previously stated, not one shred of proof has ever been brought forth to substantiate the claim...

I've had periods of down time and periods were I am as controversial as they come, and I have never received anything except the utmost respect and support from the Admin and MODS of this site. I see no reason to disrespect them over an issue that has been beaten to death.

I think a BIG question that might be asked in regards to this is;

Do any of you that think ATS is COINTEL, actually have any information that a COINTEL Organization would care one whit about?

I'm betting not....

Heck they could interview me until the cows come home and unless they are interested in the happenings around Bike Week, I could tell them squat; even if they waterboarded me..

Also consider this:

Would anyone that had actual information openly accuse ATS? Nope...

Cointel... Schmointel...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Cointel... Schmointel...

Semper

Isn't that where the three stooges get all their information from?? "The Schmointel"

I think from now on instead of posting on a thread like this (which does come up an awful lot with everyone saying the same thing), we should just post the repository of thread links to all of the past CoIntel queries.

B T W Because of this damn thread.... I have to deal with another Dave Rabbit RANT on our show.

THANKS SO MUCH PEOPLE.. geezz.. I can't ever get a break...

reply to post by JohnnyAnonymous

I have learned to respect the fact that the owners have their own opinions and their own access to "facts."

What happens between me and my brother in the Army is that he and I know different "facts," so none of our conclusions can match.

I figure it's the same here. I don't know the same facts other people are convinced they know. Knowing certain facts seems to be a big deal.

I don't believe ATS is owned by the government.

However I do have a couple of questions that I think relate to this thread.

Skeptic Overlord have you or your management ever been asked to change or remove content regarding any sensitive subject matter??

I am also curious about whether you believe the 911 threads are actively monitored and derailed by government types??

For the record I love ATS!! Keep up the good work Langley


at least some of my tax dollars are going to something I enjoy!

Heck they could interview me until the cows come home and unless they are interested in the happenings around Bike Week, I could tell them squat; even if they waterboarded me..

Semper waterboarding is loads of fun, you get a bath and the fun of bobbing for apples all at the same time! Without doing any work! Its great.

Sorry Johnny about the upcoming rantcast. I hope Dave takes it easy on ya.

From this thread you can deduce that a minority believe in a conspiracy that is going on in the relms of the amigos, a small minority. The majority of the posters all agree that there is nothing sinister about our amigos going on.

I think it would be funny to be interogated by some alphebet agency. I think I would have an awesome time messing with them in a uniquely wukky way.

The key to the whole shebang is the easter egg agents, find the easter egg and all will be reveiled! That would be a hoot!

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Skeptic Overlord have you or your management ever been asked to change or remove content regarding any sensitive subject matter??

Twice...

Once, long ago, Simon unknowingly posted something very sensitive to the static information pages, before the board even existed. He was asked to remove it, and from what I know, the request carried no threat.

Three years ago, someone posted the direct-dial line for an agent at the Defense Intelligence Agency. We were also requested to remove that, after direct contact by the DIA.

None others.

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
I don't believe ATS is owned by the government. However I do have a couple of questions that I think relate to this thread.
Skeptic Overlord have you or your management ever been asked to change or remove content regarding any sensitive subject matter??

I'd like to remind everyone that questions such as these are addressed every week on our weekly show the "ATS MIX".. And you can ask any question you want here for Dave and I to ask the SkepticOverlord:

Ask SkepticOverlord

Johnny Anonymous

Well... in all honesty, this one particular "ATS COINTELPRO" thread hurt the most. Such topics initiated by those who envy our success are tolerable. I understand the prevalence of the horrid lies about our motives contrived by those who are just looking for attention. I can even deal with once-popular members concocting grandiose scenarios of falsehoods as a method to draw the moths to their new flame. But this... from someone who spent time with us... is painful.

In many ways, I've observed how "slamming ATS" evolves into an entertaining pastime for a segment of people who are either disgruntled from being banned or have experienced some other perceived wrong. It's natural, people need to vent. But the new and interesting ways people seek to reprise this subject over and over again becomes increasingly tedious.


For me, this is it. I left my job as a advertising executive in charge of a good-sized department at a mid-sized agency on Madison Avenue in New York City. I'm now the CEO of a company that, for the most part, focuses on UFO's and conspiracy theories. If this doesn't work out, imagine me interviewing with that on my resume.

For me, this is it. I left that job not because I want to spread disinformation, not because I want to sit back and ban people I don't like, not because I've been hired by some government agency, not because I have an agenda to push... because I have a overwhelming passion for fostering free-expression in a user-generated environment (and the ATS topics). Since I was first online with a 900 baud modem in the 1980's, my focus, drive, and passion has always been the collaborative magic of people engaged in conversation online. (I even developed an ad banner with user-generated content for one of my clients.)

For me, this is it. The vision that has sprung forth from these pages in the past 18 months is that of a new kind of company that has tendrils reaching into radio, television, magazines, books, DVD's, news, and more. But most importantly, those tendrils are directed by, feed by, and working for the users, readers, and writers of the core website, ATS. Every fiber of my being is consumed with making that goal happen... for me, this is it.


So yes, seeing those who wonder if I'm involved in a government COINTELPRO operation is hurtful... insulting even. Because my entire day, every day, is focused on an effort that is exactly the opposite of such an idea. The author of this thread knew that, John Lear knows that, others who have fun at our expense likely know it deep-down, and they should be ashamed.


And would you know, all that hard work is just now paying off. This thread by our members has exploded onto the national and international scene. It was sourced and used by major media such as Reuters and the New York Times, and is showing up on hundreds of news sites and news papers around the world. You, our members, made a difference... an important subject got noticed on ATS and something is being done about it. That's power. That's your power.


But no matter how hard we work or how far we get, there are those who will always seek to tear us down... either to entertain themselves, make them feel better, seek attention, or revenge... nothing we ever do will be enough.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

For me, this is it. The vision that has sprung forth from these pages in the past 18 months is that of a new kind of company that has tendrils reaching into radio, television, magazines, books, DVD's, news, and more.

Kewl beans. Does this mean if I finally put that book together you might be interested in publishing it?

God I love this site

Just a few points. When I first got to ATS there were less than 4000 members. That isn't the beginning but it's pretty close. I've been a staff member going on 4 years. I've worked daily with this fine staff and have met many of them and other members in RL. I've also talked to others on the phone. I'm pretty sure that the only one that works for any government agency is me. Don't stress it it isn't a biggie, it's the Ontario Provincial gov.

It's easy to see personalities on the board and think that it's just some anonymous individuals but the people here are real. Being a conspiracy board though we get people that can be paranoid. Lord knows I wasn't until I got here. Thanks a lot guys.

Originally posted by intrepid
Just a few points. When I first got to ATS there were less than 4000 members. That isn't the beginning but it's pretty close. I've been a staff member going on 4 years. I've worked daily with this fine staff and have met many of them and other members in RL. I've also talked to others on the phone. I'm pretty sure that the only one that works for any government agency is me. Don't stress it it isn't a biggie, it's the Ontario Provincial gov.

It's easy to see personalities on the board and think that it's just some anonymous individuals but the people here are real. Being a conspiracy board though we get people that can be paranoid. Lord knows I wasn't until I got here. Thanks a lot guys.

I feel for you guys - having to handle threads like this. I actually KNOW how you feel. In my case, it seems that all you have to do is stay in business - publishing controversial material for 20+ years and it is assumed automatically that we are govt run/infiltrated/masons/illuminati blah blah. Their logic is - that I MUST be working for them, purely because I am 'allowed' to exist for so long. Go figure.

You are always gonna have the true believers and the true sceptics being the most vocal on ATS - while the reasonable 'middle' majority, who don't need to make unnecessary noise, just sit back and get a combination of entertainment and education.

Anyway, just keep up with providing a healthy forum for exchange of ideas in the way that you do. You're doing just fine in my opinion - Cointel Pro or not! LOL!
Peace
Duncan

Personally...I'm convinced that the membership is COINTELPRO.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people would band around the notion that a website that they chose to post on knew they were coming and posted to their contrary specifically...

I mean really...if you know what is real and can differentiate what is relevant...who cares if an alien godfather gave birth to a "Nessie" that spouts off the relevance of a continual partisan political system?

I think we should get away from the need to convince others of our point of view and focus on what exactly what we perceive personally...

Really...convince me. Your better option is figuring out what you think...why you think it...and the relevance it has to your personal situation....

..not mine or anyone else here you haven't met...

my two cents....

C'mon Skeptic Overlord...or Springer

What about by 911 thread question?? Are the 911 threads monitored and derailed by gov agents?? What is your take?

S.O. I notice you post on JREF...to me JREF is either gov or ????

Wonder why you are with JREF??

Why do they care so much about 911??

What say you S.O.??

reply to post by cornixman


Visious is about right. Do a google search. About half of the talk you'll find about ATS rather nasty if not downright slanderous. If Bill seems a little miffed about it, I can completely understand, or at least sympathize.

Yet another thread, if not accusing, certainly hinting at some sort of "sell out" by the ATS management/ownership. Little evidence, actually none, yet on and on and on it goes.

I don't get how a site which relies on USER GENERATED MATERIAL can be CoIntelPro unless most or all of the members(or phantom members) are in on it.

If one asserts that ATS is CoIntelPro, is that person speaking of the site itself or the thousands of people that make up the message?

I am fond of TheDuckster, and I believe that the message he/she has portrayed is just one of someone (like myself and many others) who constantly feels the need to question authority, a healthy habit of free people.

Until ATS or the government starts censoring the content at large, we have nothing to worry about, but keep in mind that THEY are already here. If the government is bothering to find 'terrorists' in World of Warcraft I am sure that they have a few people working on ATS full time.

I say, fight the power as long as the internet is still a place of freedom, only after they take that away will there be problems.

I do feel sorry for those that control this site who are constantly being attacked, but that is the nature of the site they created. It is a hard burden to carry.

As far as worst case scenario....

If ATS is CoIntelPro, fine with me. I have been gathering information regardless. DisInfo is an important tool used in the right hands to uncover the truth(if I know everything 'you' want me to know, I can deduce what you don't want me to know). If the user generated content is all a lie, I still have what I need to find the truth.

I think it would be nice for the ATS owners to have a little more in the bank thanks to uncle sam, as long as I can be free to speak what I believe. When I feel this is otherwise, I will leave, quietly.

worst case scenario off/

That, my friends, is the point of all of this. I am free to speak my mind, that is all I ask for anyway.

Originally posted by Springer

Dude...Have you listened to ANY of our ATS MIX podcasts? Have you paid attention to ANY of SkepticOverlord's or my threads and podcasts where we OUTLINE the FACT every Intel Agency on the planet is READING AboveTopSecret.com?!

You sound surprised that he apparently hasnt listened to a podcast.
Didnt realize they were mainstay, so to speak. I believe I have only heard 1 ATS mix and a couple of 3 amigo stuff. (Of course I do not claim to represent ATS -)

Perhaps the podcast have taken off? If so, congrats.

Peace

dAlen

p.s. - I do want to add a comment to Springer and S.O. -
You have claimed again and again that you are not in the CIA, what-not.
And as Springer said no matter what you say/do people will still not believe you.

But perhaps that is the issue? What is there to defend? You either are or are not part of some secret group. Does this really matter in the long run? I have already said this earlier in the thread.

Perhaps, for the most part, it feeds this kind of talk. You pay attention to it and it doesnt go away. Is it something that even deserves attention?

It may be good for views though, who knows.

If people are worried that someone is watching what they type, for all we know some secret agency has an email reader that reads whatever you type...heck they can watch us from advanced satellites on the toilet for all we know.

I dont see how this topic advances either side in knowledge or wisdom...kind of dumbs down both sides, so to speak. But I suppose its fun. In that case, it is as it is.

- one note to S.O., it seems you have indeed found your passion...ATS.
So dont sweat the small stuff. Eckhart Tolle said something along the lines of, "if small things get to you than that shows how you view yourself..." - I cant say it as eloquently as him. (in fact it sounds like a put down how I wrote it, but its truly liberating when your realize the truth in it...), anyway

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 11-5-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
And would you know, all that hard work is just now paying off. This thread by our members has exploded onto the national and international scene. It was sourced and used by major media such as Reuters and the New York Times, and is showing up on hundreds of news sites and news papers around the world. You, our members, made a difference... an important subject got noticed on ATS and something is being done about it. That's power. That's your power.

I would venture to guess that its threads like the above which would invite people to believe that disinformation is being spread.
- A more accurate stance would be that ego games are being played out - a general statement, not directed at anyone...this is the way of mass consciousness currently.

Point is the thread about the FBI fearing china...well, when one considers that everything from our Mac computers to only god knows what is made there...who can believe that we are really at odds with the communist nation? - There is so much business being done with them that its crazy, and thus any fear based talk smells of someone trying to push an agena or idea on a given group of people.

Anyway, is this a conspiracy, or is just paranoid ego that can use China and then point a finger at them at the same time.

Either way, your point that mass media is picking up ATS is good - this is what you have tried to achieve, so as I pointed out in the post above, dont sweat the small stuff.

Lets just hope that what mass media picks up is not more of the 'fear' based type news...but then again, it seems this is what main stream news feeds off of.

As Eckhart Tolle put it, what if an Alien came and saw that we paid money to watch horror films? Pain bodies write films for other pain bodies to watch...(He explains clearly what is meant by Pain body)...same with news - fear based stuff is always out there because its what mass 'unconsciousness' wants to hear.

Personally I see some hope with ATS with its alternative topics...and even the business model. Yes S.O. is an advertising guy and knows how business works - and primarily empowering the user helps the business. - i.e., an article a former boss of mine posted, showed that some major company now has 'mandatory' ping pong - just careful with the mandatory bit...cant force things on people, thats the point.

And my point with what I just mentioned is that there is indeed a fresh way of doing things which dont rely on negativity. And no I wasnt picking on S.O. or the author of the link he pointed out. - just couldnt help seeing the irony in the FBIs fear of a country that we literally are married to when it comes to manufacturing, etc.

Maybe some of this makes sense what I wrote.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 11-5-2008 by dAlen]

Well, I see two very good points in the last two posts that I'd like to address, and then I'll just make a brief comment on the content of the thread itself.

You have claimed again and again that you are not in the CIA, what-not. And as Springer said no matter what you say/do people will still not believe you.

What's interesting about this is how utterly irrelevant it really is. You're so right about it. Questions have been asked regarding government affiliations and they've been answered honestly. People have inquired if any of the Amigos are employed by the government. The three of them have all stated that they do not. I've met all three in person, and I know what they do, but hey, no one has to believe me either. For that matter, none of them really had to bother themselves in answering people's questions about their personal lives either. They chose to do that to try and cut off people's misconceptions. If it doesn't help, well that's too bad isn't it.

Ask me what I do for work. My answer will be the same that it is to anyone who I've just met on the street. I make a living, thank you. To have people who have never met you and have no idea who you are claim to "know" who you work for and what you do is an amusing concept at best. You ask, they answer and that's all. The only ones who refuse to accept the answer are those with some bizarre agenda which usually becomes apparent very quickly.

That's all I really have to say about the whole do you work for the government issue.

I don't get how a site which relies on USER GENERATED MATERIAL can be CoIntelPro unless most or all of the members(or phantom members) are in on it.

If one asserts that ATS is CoIntelPro, is that person speaking of the site itself or the thousands of people that make up the message?

This is perhaps one of the most spectacular points I have EVER seen posted. See, we (the staff) don't make the content. Our users do. If someone believes that the content of ATS is intentionally producing disinfo or misleading people, or "hiding the truth" (a fantastic, dramatic and cinematic concept that pops up whenever this conversation does) well then you're not talking about the staff, you're talking about the members. I think some of our members might be insulted by that.

We don't direct the content, we make sure it adheres to our very clearly laid out Terms and Conditions of use. I've been a member here for 5 and a half years now. I'm also currently one of the top tier of staff. I can see everything that has ever been trashed, moved, warned for, everything. Never has a post been removed from view for ANY reason other than it not complying with the T&C.

We've made a lot of people mad. There's really nothing we can do about that. It is our opinion that it's important to keep ATS a family friendly site, an educational resource, a place of learning. If someone had a thread junked because they lacked the skill to express their point without swearing throughout, that's just too bad. If someone had a thread deleted because they mistakenly believed that ATS was the place to discuss their latest experience with mind altering pharmaceutical products, that's too bad.

Unfortunately that has made a lot of people mad. Angry people say and do a lot of things. I know I've said about a million times that no community is for EVERYone. A community that fits everyone does not exist. We do our best, but we're not a utopia either. Inevitably actions we have taken or will take will cause disputes. That's part of life. When confronted with the fact that you are not a good fit with a community, you can either move on with your life and focus on more important things or you can obsess over that community and put in hours and hours of relentless effort to make them look bad. The choice belongs to the individual.

The supposed bad press that was mentioned by the author of this thread is simply that. People who might have disagreed with ATS's policy on certain things, certain topics, certain actions, and instead of simply moving on have decided to make a concerted effort to invent absolutely fascinating stories about us. Some of it is pretty baseless, some of it is written with some flair (kinda like what you find near the checkout line), but I suppose it does attract an audience.

So the question then comes to the membership of ATS. You need to ask yourself about your own experience here. Comments from the staff are almost worthless at this point. If someone decides to post an article on some site saying "That Djarums guy is a fed who tries to misdirect people's thoughts and ideas, and he censors people who are coming near THE TRUTH"... well... what should I do about it? Better yet, what CAN I do about it? Scan my drivers license in? Invite all of you for coffee and cake at my office so you can see where I actually work? Do you care? I know I don't care. I don't care if you're a government agent, a doctor, a mechanic, a farmer, unemployed, a billionaire, a celebrity, or just an average person in small town usa. Why? Because to me you're all the same. Every one of you are exactly the same in my eyes. You're each a person who somehow found this website, signed up for it, and has decided that you enjoy the exchange of information and ideas. You're each a completely unique person from your own walk of life with your own experiences, who's work and ideas I am now able to read and learn from, which is something that would otherwise be impossible. I go into chat and talk to Australians... Australians... people a 24 hour flight away from me. ATS makes that possible. I consider ATS a meeting point, a tool that allows people from anywhere on earth (or off it, for you UFO buffs) to simply type up their thoughts, click post, and have it read by other people from anywhere on earth. One single thread might contain 100 replies from 20 different nations all "talking" about a topic.

This is what we break our backs trying to present to the members here. A place where people can be heard. Where people can talk about what they're thinking, what they're feeling, something they feel strongly about. A place where people in different countries can engage in the process of critical thinking to get down to the bottom of something together.

In five and a half years being here I still get amazed on a daily basis by the things that people say and do on ATS. The sheer intelligence of this group of members we have is unparallelled anywhere. Online or offline. That's ATS. ATS is more than just a couple of guys who's only difference from you is that they have an extra forum to review complaints.

To address the topic of this thread in a brief manner, all I can say is "so?"

Are the Amigos a bunch of time card punching feds sitting in an office snickering about how they've pulled the wool over your eyes about something. No they're not. Will that answer satisfy everyone? Nope. Will ANY answer satisfy everyone? Nope. So what can you do.

Has ATS been infiltrated by some government body? No we haven't. Will that answer satisfy everyone? Nope. So what can you do.

What the membership can do is enjoy ATS for what it is. The absolute best community anywhere for discussion of alternative topics, bar none. That's what I see it as.

Can you choose to browse around online and peruse each and every story posted by someone who did not have a positive experience here? If you choose to. I don't see why you'd bother really. If I didn't trust a community I was a part of and I felt they were all such terrible people, I'd sign out and never come back.

There is absolutely nothing that we as staff can do to stop this from happening. As I said earlier, there does not exist a perfect community, anywhere, in any shape or form. Inevitably there will always be someone who has had a crappy experience and will be mad about it. It's unfortunate. To those who've moved on and found somewhere that suits them better, that's awesome! If they're happy, that's what matters. To those who haven't moved on and have made it their lifes work to attempt to bring down this community by spreading utter stupidity about us, I have nothing but pity for those people because to allow incidents on a web forum to consume you with such hatred is a true tragedy.

As an Administrator on ATS I am proud to say that I am part of this community, I absolutely could not care less if anyone thinks I work for [insert evil name here], and I absolutely could not care less if anyone reads this post and considers it drivel. When I sign in here I am Djarums, a person who has come to ATS nearly every day for more than 5 years, and considers himself exponentially smarter because of that. To me that is what's important. I have learned so much from the brilliant members of this site, and I hope in a small way I have contributed to their ability to keep enjoying it. That's all I really care about.

Sincerely,

Djarums, Proud ATS Admin, Member and Fan of the ATS Community and Membership.

[edit on 5/11/2008 by Djarums]

Jesus christ.



This subject just keeps coming back like a bad penny doesn't it

Click on the Google search button in the top right hand corner of the page, Under the tabs and Do a ATS search You can read heaps on these kinds of Half baked and logically ridiculous ideas., just type in cointel pro and go bananas .

There are heaps of threads on the subject.
Take this bird out of the oven and throw it in the trash, For good.
Its so done its burnt and stinks. To be frank im sick of hearing about it .

The ideas been put straight and clarified multiple times already in my honest opinion.