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Page ID (PID) NARA-PBB1-356
Collection National Archives (NARA)
Roll Description NARA Blue Book Roll 1
Document Code T1206-1
Page ID (PID) NARA-PBB94-810
Collection National Archives (NARA)
Roll Description NARA Blue Book Roll 94
Document Code T1206-94
Perhaps there's a way to get better scans
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 14:40:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Francis Ridge, email@example.com
Subject: Recent Research Into Edwards Incident; Oct 7, 1965
To: CE, SHG, NCP
A search for anything regarding the October 7, 1965 incident at Edwards turned up two items:
1) NARA-PBB1-356 - A listing on a sighting page at Blue Book. Listed as "visual" and "radar". Note "separate folder" and all the explanations, none of which "fly" based on what we hear on the audiotapes.
2) NARA-PBB94 810-828 - Cover page, "File 10021, Oct. 7, 1965, Edwards AFB, 17 photos", and 17 pages of "photos".
Both items are inserted below, for the record.
I then suggested to William Wise of the Project Blue Book Archive that we jump ahead to 1965 and try to locate further documents on this incident. He replied:
"I have no problem with jumping ahead to the relevant 1965 roll. Do you mean NARA roll or NARA-Maxwell roll? I'm not sure what would be required to finance this beyond purchasing the relevant NARA roll. Jan would probably be willing to lend us his roll but it might be better yet to try the NARA-Maxwell roll instead. For around $100.00 per roll we can have the roll scanned by a service bureau but the results I've been able to acquire thus far via this method, although acceptable, have been less than optimal."
Up to twelve luminous UFOs flew over this secure test facility and the region, and at least one F-106A interceptor was scrambled from George AFB at Victorville. All of this action was captured on classified U.S. Air Force audio tapes which have now been declassified and are available to the public along with official documentation.The question in my mind is, what was going on during those 3-4 hours we don't know about? If we were allowed to hear only 6 hours of 40, and read only 17 pages of hard-to-read documents, what is it we were NOT allowed to hear and see? The documents we have make it clear that by the time Alpha Lima Zero One was scrambled at at 1209Z or 5:09 PM PDT, "the activity was just about over."
Major Struble from an outfit known as LAADS (Los Angeles Air Defense Sector), a division of ARADCOM (Army Air Defense Command) authorized the making of these recordings of voice transmissions made by military personnel to and from Edwards Air Force Base- from base to base communications, phone patches, ground to air radio & tower to air radio. These recordings archived the conversations which documented this event of UFO visitation of a highly secure military base. The audio recordings were made on an extra track of large reels of radar data tapes, which were running all the time in the case of an accident and the need to review the radar tracks.
The event at Edwards Air Force Base took place over about a five hour period and since the voice recordings were made from at least 8 positions, approximately 40 hours of audio recordings had to have been made. Out of the possible 40 hours of these tape recordings only 6 hours were declassified by the Department of the Air Force.
Darryl Clark, Capt. 329th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), George AFB, Calif., was an alert pilot with Detachment.1 at Edwards AFB. He happened to be on duty this evening and was called upon to observe the activity. His observations were all made from the ground. Captain Clark was one of the important Alert Pilots at Edwards Air Force Base on the night of October 7, 1965. He was entrusted with flying one of the Hot Birds, as planes loaded with Nuclear Weapons were called, that protected the western part of the United States. Skilled at target identification, Captain Clark is heard on the original Air Force recordings describing his UFO sighting of that night. (See Darryl Clark actual statement below)
That evening, October 7 (and the following one, October 8), 1965, some 700 engineers and scientists attended the Fourth X-15 Technical Conference at the (then) NASA Flight Research Center at Edwards AFB. This dealt with the research results of the 150 some X-15 flights made since 1959. (Astronautics and Aeronautics 1965 NASA SP-4006, page 464 - Joel Carpenter)
There were a number of radars at each site, generally a search radar and a height-finder radar, and it is not always clear which ones were actually in use.
Furthermore there were quite possibly FAA radar, AF air defense radars, and AF air traffic control radar all involved. Edwards AFB Tower had at least one air traffic radar, a RAPCON (radar approach control).
The Blue Book docs indicate the radar scope photos were taken by San Pedro because San Pedro declares the Track Numbers and talks about scope photos.
San Pedro was the 670th ACW Squadron (later the 670th Radar Squadron) at Fort MacArthur, CA at:
Latitude: 33-44-46 N, Longitude: 118-20-10 W
However, San Pedro in 1965 operated both an FAA ARSR-1C search radar, an AF FPS-27 frequency diversity S-band SAGE search radar (150,000 ft and 220 nmi range), and two AF height-finders FPS-90 (modified FPS-6B) S-band height-finder and FPS-26A frequency diversity C-band SAGE height-finder.
Boron AF Station 750th AC&W Squadron was at Edwards AFB at the NE corner of the Edwards reservation.
Boron AFS, CA, was at:
Latitude: 35-04-44 N, Longitude: 117-34-45 W
Boron in 1965 was a joint-use FAA/ADC radar site, and had an FPS-35 frequency diversity SAGE search radar, an FPS-26A height-finder, an FPS-90 height-finder and possibly still an older FPS-6A height-finder.
Seventeen pages of nothing there, mate.
Originally posted by Jazzyguy
reply to post by internos
2. Balloon (again)
3. Returns Due to meteorological condition
What is this supposed to mean?
Seventeen pages of nothing there, mate.
*sigh* I know. If it's a weather phenomenon and a misidentification of celestial objects, why they classify the tapes for 30 years.
Thanks a bunch, internos, as always you are very informative.
It was during the late stages of Blue Book in the 1960s that Hynek began speaking openly about his disagreements and disappointments with the Air Force. Among the cases where he openly dissented with the Air Force were the highly publicized Portage County UFO Chase (where several police officers chased a UFO for half an hour), and the encounter of Lonnie Zamora. A police officer, Zamora reported an encounter with a metallic, egg-shaped aircraft near Socorro, New Mexico. Zamora witnessed two humanoid occupants of the craft, and in its apparently hasty departure, the craft left physical evidence of its presence. As of 2007, no entirely adequate explanation has been presented that would contradict Zamora's account—in fact, in a secret memo for the CIA, Blue Book's director at the time, Major Quintanilla, expressed his own bafflement at the case. Hynek described the case as a potential "Rosetta Stone" that might unlock the UFO mystery.
Originally posted by internos
You can rule out the balloons theory, (listen to Track# 3)
You can rule out the Astro (star/planet) theory because they have been spotted by RADARS: check what says Captain Darryl Clark here.
You can rule out the "returns due to meteorogical conditions", because in according to what we hear, an EVASIVE MANOEUVRE has been reported
Further, the Air Force scrambled several jet fighters after them and during the event the possible use of nuclear weapons even became an issue.
Originally posted by jkrog08
But this thread should definitely get more attention than it has so I am bumping it.
Originally posted by Jazzyguy
Doesn't that bother you? I mean if ET is actually real, and they have been around this long.
Audio tapes of a genuine UFO Alert at Edwards Air Force base and studied by the Foreign Technology Division at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, are now available for distribution to the public.
Lunar Astronaut Dr. Edgar Mitchell was at Edwards the night the UFO chase occurred. The 6th person to walk on the moon said, "The night it happened I investigated it myself and this was a real event."
"As a result of several trips to project Bluebook,I´ve had an opportunity to examine quite carefully and in detail the types of reports that are made by Bluebook personnel. In most cases,I have found that theres almost no correlation between so-called "evaluations and explanations" that are made by Bluebook and the facts of the case...
There are hundreds of good cases in the Air Force files that should have led to top-level scientific scrutiny of this problem,years ago,yet these cases have been swept under the rug in a most disturbing way by Project Bluebook investigators and their consultants."
Dr James McDonald -Senior physicist at the Institute for Atmospheric Physics and professor in the Department of Meteorology at the University of Arizona
Edwards Air force base. October, 1965 - object(s) description:
Chuck Sorrels: My name is Chuck Sorrels, a retired Air Force air traffic controller. I'm recording this on May 16, 1995. In 1965, 30 years ago, I was a tech sergeant in the U.S. Air Force, attached to the19 25th Communication Squadron at Edwards Air Force Base in California. I was the air traffic controller on duty in Edwards tower on the night of October 7, 1965. I was working a midnight shift in the tower when at approximately 1:30 a.m., I spotted a group of luminous objects in the air above and around Edwards Air Force Base. They had a flashing red light on the bottom, with a green, glowing light above the red.
They also sometimes flashed or glowed a white light above the green light. The sightings lasted until about daylight, 5:30 or six a.m. At first I sighted one object, which was larger and brighter than the rest. At one point there were seven objects visible at the same time. The objects would be stationary for a period of time and then move very fast to another location and appeared to be able to climb straight up in short order. Good eyesight and my experience as an air traffic controller made it plain to me that these luminous objects were not planes, helicopters, stars, satellites, weather balloons or any other known aerial object. Your job as an air traffic controller calls for you to be watchful.Training told me these were not normal objects. The objects weren't supposed to be there. These were objects out of the normal, from their appearance and flight characteristics. I reported these sightings to base operations and the Los Angeles Air Defense Sector. The objects were also seen by at least five other people on Edwards Air Force Base. They were also seen by George Air Force Base tower and were showing up on radar in at least four different radar sight locations.