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Why do you think the Vatican has failed? A plan to fix it!

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posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:07 AM
Jedi, you ask for a religious army to convert or kill.
What happens to you if this happens and the christians....lose?
Will you convert or will you die??

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:12 AM
here's another idea. we could vote the current pope out and get a council in there. not rely on one ruling figure, but many and have them be younger and more diverse. We could use a NATO style system for the Vatican where all of the nations have a saying in their doings. Now, I'm not promoting violence, i'm just trying to get the Vatican out of this mudhole they are in. Jesus's teachings are suffering because of the laid back action of the current relations. And they have to let the secrets out too, if Jesus did get married to Magdalene then come out and say it and show the world the true history.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:27 AM
You have several flaws in your fundamental hypotheses.

1. Not all Christians are loving, caring, forgiving and tolerant people. Many are bigoted and evil;
2. People do not need to be converted. Many 'natives', particularly Polynesians, were loving, peaceful people and did not need to be converted to Christianity;
3. Many unfair and barbarous acts have been perpetrated by people claiming to be 'Christian';
4. Many ethical people are non-religious and don't deserve to be killed by your Christian Army plan;
5. The very smartest and capable people may not be religious. If you kill off all the smart people, you are harming progress.

I think your plan would work best as a microcosm. Get those people you believe to be Christian and form a commune and isolate yourselves away from the world. Christianity (or any specific religion) does not work well as a global strategy.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Badge01]

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:32 AM
The vatican has failed and will always fail because it is a corrupt group, and it is based on lies. Most people are waking up to its arcane hypocrisies and seeing it for what it is, a dying dog.

I was raised catholic, went to catholic school, and even back then I questioned the insanity of the church's rules, especially no abortions or birth control. Excuse me you mysogonist pope, pay for my babies if I cannot control when I birth. Any institution that wants to take my human rights away(I include our government in this too) is corrupt and needs to crumble away to dust for the good of all humankind.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:36 AM
if any of you have been to Italy or seen the easter mass you'd know that there are millions of Christians who'd do anything the Pope orders. he's the authority of the church around the world. but his tactis are lame. He's too nice! think of Palpatine in revenge of the sith, he's the older gentleman that turns against the jedi and sends the clones into the jedi temple to destroy them. Perhaps the Vatican can call out Muslims and call them traitors and justifiably take them out of the picture.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 09:02 AM
reply to post by jedimiller

Don't forget the Pope is just a figurehead. Of course he's 'nice'.

The real power is held by the papal bishops and others who never make a public appearance, except maybe in the background.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:51 PM
The Catholic faith's skewering of the Bible is more than enough to make make Catholics look bad. The failures and manipulative nature of the Catholic Church is just the icing on the cake.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Johnmike]

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 07:18 PM

Originally posted by jedimiller\you should know better and understand that even jesus told us to fight back. Using a sword is the best way to fight off the evils.

didnt jesus rebuke peter for using a sword?

honestly jedi, do you even read the bible?

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 12:02 AM
I can't believe that anyone is taking this thread seriously. It's a JOKE.

I'm not, however, surprised to see the anti-Catholics come out of the woodwork to attack the teachings of the Church.

Sheesh. There are some days that I love ATS and some that are trying. Don't you think the OP stretches credulity just a tad?


posted on May, 8 2008 @ 12:19 AM
reply to post by jedimiller

I am assuming your Christian. You are going against your beliefs as a Christian. Make an army? did Jesus make an army? You are acting like the Muslim extremists who think that your a sinner. In a way you guys are both sinners and all the murder is not going to be cherished when you die.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 01:37 AM
Jedi you do not believe in what i believe in therefore i will kill you.
Sounds fair right?
*Snip* and either get a clue or stop trolling.

Mod Note Please Review: Courtesy Is Mandatory
When members are rude, they not only discourage those whom they intend to hurt, but offend everyone who reads their rude posts, and make the discussion environment less pleasant for everyone.

[edit on 14/5/2008 by Sauron]

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 04:41 AM

[edit on 8-5-2008 by andre18]

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 07:01 AM
You are definitely seeking attention!!!

Did you attend the Pope's mass in New York City, celebrated on Hitler's birthday??????

The Vatican is it's own state. The Pope may have control of his churches around the world, but without a congregation, they are useless. I will not have a priest under the Pope's jurisdicton control my life.

The Catholic Church is doing quite fine on its own and, while what you say would have been welcomed in the dark ages, the church would condemn your ruminations whether or not they have intentions of ruling the world which just might have been their thoughts for the past centuries to the present.

I believe that God has His own plan for all the religions of the world in order to enlighten people in His own way. In my opinion, God gave the church ample time to come clean, confess their sins, and make restitution and to apologize for allowing the atrocities done to young boys and girls. So, some of the pedophile priests had to answer for their criminal acts and, unfortunately, the ones who helped to cover the horrendous acts were never brought to trial. I still believe they must all answer to God for their actions. I have a difficult time even accepting that they actually believe in God!

So how has the Catholic Church failed.......through their arrogance and hypocricy!!!

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 09:54 AM

Originally posted by jedimiller
Do any Christians in here have the balls to fight back? I'll do anything it takes to take our world back. the Vatican and the pope are like our government and they have failed us. shouldn't we come up with a plan to help them out? I was just talking about my plan, but I know that sitting down and talking isn't working anymore. we need immediate change.

Friend, it seems as though YOU need the immediate change. I believe many others like me raised as catholic have realized that faith is a solo act. You fear others with different views, and want to rally up some buddies to go kick some ass. Who made it the USA's responsibility to force-feed religion down ANYONE's throat- INCLUDING CITIZENS SUCH AS MYSELF?!?

You, my friend, are why I fear the future of mankind and America. You are so wrapped up in your own fear-muddled existence that you'd not blink an eye to oust the 'foe'- someone who doesn't believe what you do. This country and Planet Earth DO NOT NEED your war-mongering and lack of empathy. If this country needs immediate change, it would be to educate all the people like you to think for yourself.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 02:12 PM
what does the vatican have to do with it they have no say so anymore

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 02:55 PM
The extremist Muslim groups are just WAITING for an extremist Christian or Catholic group to declare war. In their religion, they believe that they can use certain measures against their enemies that isn't allowed under other circumstances.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:00 PM
Well the Koran speaks of two kinds of holy warfare. First its the small Jihad, the war between nations and religions. Then you have the great Jihad, the war within. The same war Christians speek of, the spiritual war, with words and thought.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:37 PM
reply to post by jedimiller

You know, being a deep Christian and knowing my limit and yes i have to agree that our religion is going down hill these days you do in fact descrace us. And how DARE YOU USE THE TEMPLARS as a example to your scum of a plan to kill non believers....Being a Mason that is one if not the most disrespecting thing you can possibly do and it extremely pisses me off..the Templars didn't kill non believers they fought for freedom and control of the holy land. You need to be locked up before you cause harm.

EDITED TO ADD - If you dare use the Templars as a example then you should also know and understand that your religion and beliefs will never die as long as you hold and keep the faith.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by Mr.x211]

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 04:06 PM
reply to post by Mr.x211

All templars are masons but not all masons are templars, at least around here.

Do all roads lead to Rome and the flim-flam Hegelian plans there spawned, eg, DC says "ok" from City of London who says "ok" to the Hague says Tel Aviv from Vatican City? Would it be shocking?

As a mea culpa, the extent of my religiousness provides that there is a divine goodness for which I am a conduit but not the whole source. Our righteous not frivolous acts define us.... Basically, there's a G-d and it isn't me.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by jamescar]

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 04:41 PM
Sorry, but I can't seem to get Wagner's RIDE OF THE VALKYRIES out of my head... It'd be great beyond description if all the world's militant (or militant ENOUGH) monotheists could meet on a huge battlefield and fight until every last one of you psychos are dead. The world would then be an immeasurably more peaceful and sane place.

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