Dance Music: talented vocals, quality production...so why isn't it on the air?

reply to post by BASSPLYR


You make some valid points but i have to pick you up on a few things. Dance music is meant to be fairly repetitive so you can actually dance to it!
If you think rap,reggae or rock ,for instance are, any different then you are sadly deluding yourself.
Let me give you an example- get a copy of led zep 4 and play "rockn' roll"-its a repetitive riff with inane lyrics repeated with a little guitar solo before it repeats over again. I'd wager a lot of people would regard this as a classic rock tune and yet its as repetitive as the most inane dance tune.Perhaps you could explain how its different for me as i'm struggling here! Repetition does not mean bad music-just ask the ramones or ac/dc? There's a lot of snobbery about dance music-usually from pseudo musos in crap bands who have never made it and are jealous of the popularity of "pop" dance music and of course lump all dance music together in the same same category. That would be like me listening to bon jovi on the radio once and deciding that nirvana,beck,primus and black sabbath are probably all the same and therefore not worth wasting my time with! Perhaps you need to expand your horizons and dig through your own preconceptions?

reply to post by spaznational

Radio stations play whatever gets an audience. So if enough people liked dance music it would get a station. So blame the music's lack of audience.

And this forms the basis of what I suspect could be tied into a larger group think/mind control black ops world project (then again maybe not?) but I know in some markets where stations play dance music in time segments (ie: mainstream pop/dance show such as "Open House Party" or pre-mixed syndicated with agency spots) like on Friday and Saturday nights, completely dominate the radio ratings for the average quarter hour listening share, in one market in particular I saw those ratings move above a 40 share (all 13+...meaning 40% of all people aged 13 and up who are tuned into a radio has their station tuned in to yours) and only to see the station move deeper into hip-hop at the command of the consultant/promoters who do these massive deals with big broadcasters, and literally yank the dance music show even though it enjoyed the largest % share of audience than any other program. This tells me Dance as a radio format (mainstream pop/dance) has a potential and can make it as a viable commercial format. The question then becomes why is all of the money thrown at pushing hip-hop while locking up the head gate on Dance, and even having programmers yank it if it dare become somewhat popular....

We know, or at least we strongly suspect, there is a conspiracy to influence Hollywood and music and thus control the masses in some way in the USA, it just gets me to thinking (of course much of it is about the money and selling music) that maybe just possibly they would rather promote a genre that promotes violence, drug trafficking, abusing women, hating gays, shooting people, and runaway materialism rather than a feel good song singing about love and peaceful themes with up-tempo beats and hypnotic pulsations...in this theory the ultimate goal may have a lot dimension, but basically it's to keep a population so distracted and caught up in the created culture that they forget to show up on election day...secondary is the prison industry who likes full jails, and thirdly is the drug trade and who is at the center of that...

Or it could just be all about the numbers...I still think though if it were, we would have a lot more dance stations on the air, and at the very least a lot of additional dance programming...

Great posts though, everyone makes excellent points...


[edit on 3-5-2008 by skyshow]

I'm assuming that the OP is from the U.S. The reason I say this is because in europe most radio stations play dance music.
There is a bigger culture of dance music in europe, in the UK on BBC radio 1 every friday & saturday night is full of top dance DJ's like Pete Tong, Judge Jules etc..

Originally posted by TheLoony

Originally posted by Skyfloating
It only proves that people dont KNOW what real uplifting, brain-expanding, consciousness-raising electronica/dance can sound like.

Not trying to derail or start an argument but I have no desire to listen to anything electronica/dance. I am a musician and I need to have real musicians playing, not just some tracks thrown together that were created by someone else or a computer. To me, it's not music.

Sorry to say this, but this shows your ignorance of dance-music. You clearly have no experience moving to rhythm.
Furthermore, and this is also true for the bulk of commetns on this thread, you have no idea what has been done to your so-called musicians playing. Any reord that comes out of a main stream studio has been totaally digitized, quantized and modified. You as a rock or whateveer-listener are listening to music that is so much more electronic than what dance music is. At least dance music is what it claims to be. Any electric or acoustic music is totally remade in the studio, and especially the crap that the major lables spew.
Rock is forking dead and has to be digitally revived to even put it on a cd. The sound of the guitars and voices has been re-created digitally and filtered and enhanced and chorused and hundreds of other modifications shoved over it.
To record distortion on digital equipment is very tricky. To do it well, you have to re-compute the harmonics. This means that the total sound is remade BY A COMPUTER. Man, what you believe is one voice on a record is actually any number of recordings of the same voice, doubled and fancified (nice word). You dont know how the original recording sounds and you will never hear it.
Lets face it; it is the age-old echo-religion of rock versus electronic.
"electronic music is made by computers" you say, but I say "damn, how can these rock-musicians be so thick" as to not understand that computers do not design, write or create the music. The computer is only the tool to forego having to buy thousasnds of euros (the worlds currency) worth of equipment that is artificially made to be expensive to fight the income loss due to electronic and digital equipment that outperforms the shoddy, noisy electric ancient-tech-crap.
In my opinion, there can only be good music or bad music, and the individual decides which is which. Electric, acoustic, digital equipment ALL can be used. its the ear that makes the musician, not the prejudice.
Just join the new time and lets let go of these fascists of music.
There is Rock and there is Jazzz and there is any other form of music. As long as it is made to be sold its bound to be crap and distracts you from your necessary path.
To me music is not a product or a religion; its a language. If you wish to shout and abuse, use rock, if you wish to communicate, use other typoes of music. If you wish to dance and resonate with people to a common beat, do dance music or psychedelic trance.
And for you hardheaded rockers, NO, dancing is NOT a gay thing; hanging around with guys mostly and getting drunk and stoned together IS.

reply to post by mclarenmp4


Yes you are correct, and I concur. My OP was getting at the idea that if the market were "truly free" we would have more dance on the air here, but it's not...it's controlled by consultants/promoters who funnel lots and lots of money into the pockets of those who do the actual programming (the broadcast conglomerates) and it's a big part of the profit mix beyond just the ratings driven advertising sales that supports a station. Your example of Europe having more dance further adds weight to my theory that dance over here in USA is stifled and locked in the cellar with only bread and water to eat while hip-hop is thrust into the spotlight and decked out in gold and diamonds with the best Champaign that money can buy...

are you seeing what I'm saying here? Beginning to see a pattern emerge? It really doesn't matter if you like dance music or not, the fact remains very few commercial dance radio stations exist in America while in other countries the format flourishes (at least to a much greater extent than here), and where it is given a chance, it often does considerably well in the ratings. This brings out the big question then: Why are there not more dance stations on the air? I say because "they" don't want people happy and free spirited thinking about peace and liberalism....they would rather the people fight among themselves, fall apart into destructive forces that act like a nuclear bomb in communities...but if it results in 10% less votes for the progressive candidate hey...mission accomplished!

Surely someone has more on this. I can't be the only one who thinks this is going on.

Maybe I don't quite understand your point. When you say

Sweet, I am really glad to see this thread. I grew up listening to mostly hard rock, heavy metal in the midwest, and still love it. But moved to Miami in 1994 and shortly after got my first taste of "Dance Music" and didn't even know what the hell it was but loved it. After awhile and ALOT of searching for more, finally just got consumed with "TRANCE" and have never looked back. The problem in the states is that first, the only dance music you will hear on the radio in most cities, if you hear any at all, is crap! What I call bubble gum dance. And 2nd, there are so many different forms of "Dance" that not too many folks get to hear the variety. I call it Electronica instead of dance, but I have grown to love and I mean LOVE Trance of all types. Female vocal, Psy, Goa, Acid, etc. And in my opinion think the chicks that sing most female vocal trance have some of the best voices i have ever heard. I can only describe it as angelic. I prefer the types that come from Germany, and UK the most and actually have several pages online promoting Trance. The prob is that it is not well known in the states except in areas like, Miami, New York, Orlando, LA, and a few other big markets. Once i started turning people on to the real deal, and not the bubble gum crap like Alice Dj, they love it. We need to promote the good artists like...Armin Van Buuren, Dumonde, Yahel, Oceanlab, Kai Tracid, A.s.y.s. Above and Beyond, and I could go on and on. I honestly believe that most people just dont know what it really is, and how many different forms of Electronica that there are. Anyway, GREAT POST... and this is actually exactly the wake up call people need. Good bye Snoop Dog, and all your other similar crappy no talent having rap artists, and Hello Derb!!!!

reply to post by stealthsurfer


What an EXCELLENT response and I couldnt have said any of that better. In fact Psy is my favorite

THAT is the problem that here in the states we get to hear on the radios the CRAP that is put out there. So people here that crap and think "oh, i hate this genre of music".....w/out ever hearing the brilliant artists who make this awesome music.

And ANYONE who thinks making good quality trance/techno/dance music is easy and not hard work....you have NEVER sat with someone making this music....nor have you heard any of the "good" stuff.

That is one reason I would love to live in Europe...the music is far better then a lot of the stuff coming from the states - well in this genre.

I also agree with the other people who said that there is no money in this - here in the states - what is in is RAP/hip hop and like music....that is where the money is...therefore, that is what gets played

Well, I can say that songs are, to a large degree, played to death on the radio. So much, so that you can get sick of the stuff you like.

Some music that, I guess, never made it as a "hit," is sometimes better than the "hits."

Sadly, many of the radio station do not keep things "fresh," and 15 minutes after you heard a song it's back on again.

If I had a radio station, I would play some of the good stuff that didn't make it as a mainstream "hit."

Troy

record labels pay for airtime. (They may not give sacks of cash but they do it other ways) Djs also have no choice in what they play, program directors select playlists based on a research and kickbacks.

They push artists that are easily marketable and appeal to the widest demographic. "Dance music" has a very narrow group of people that listen to it . You cant hum dance music and it doesnt get stuck in your head like some pop song can so your less likely to go buy it.(from a marketing standpoint) Remeber they are just SELLING a product.

99 percent of music you will never hear on the radio not just dance
The majority of labels that put out dance stuff are small indies. Unless they have a distribution deal with a major there is no way its geting on Clear Channel owned radio. It takes too much money.

On the whole argument that its talentless and its made with computers. ALL music on the radio is no matter the genre has been artifically edited so that its perfectly in time, perfectly on pitch and put to a grid. The amount of editing is actually distracting if you know what your listening for.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by drock905]

Actually, I listen to radio via the internet more then anything else.

To be honest, Dance music sucks to "most people". Hence why its not popular. While i like to listen to psytrance music occasionally. The rest of my household can't stand it. Along with most of my friends, neighbors, and co-workers.

For me, My love of Dance started way back in the 1980's when I first heard dance like music during the "who killed roger rabbit" movie. My parents couldn't stand the music so they left and I watched it alone.

Manufactured music like Country, pop, Rap, etc. Works because most people like it. There's no conspiracy there. Most people like Easy to listen to music with repeating words and no substance.

Erm, shouldn't this thread go into BTS, I mean how is this a conspiracy? Supply demand is not conspiracy is it? Next thread we gonna talk about American Idol and Britney on ATS?

[edit on 4-5-2008 by battlestargalactica]

reply to post by battlestargalactica


I agree. There is no conspiracy here just a lack of audience/ demand for dance music. There is no conspiracy with Clear Channel either as mentioned back a page.

I live in Dallas and KDGE The Edge which is owned by Clear Channel has a dedicated day and time for nothing but commercial free dance music for about 6 hours straight.

Get Satalite radio if your city doesn't cater to your specific musical likings. Or, move to a another city that is more liberal with their music selection such as Dallas.

As I recall Dance music had its fair share of airtime in the mid to late 90's here in my town. Now it's come and gone and has it's own time and place.

I wanted to add this, even though it is half on topic, but Radio stations not only do not take requests, but they also prepare their "top 9 at 9" or whatever, the night before. so much for local democracy.
Long Live Oakenfold!

Originally posted by CoNsPiRaCy PhReAk
Dance music is boring and is all computerized and because its computerized it is all mathimatically produced because you have to get the correct BPM and everything has to be perfect otherwise it will go out of time further into the song,also it doesn't take alot of talent to crate a dance track! I am a singer / songwriter and i made a dance track within 10mins all sounding perfect with vocals!. Where as Rock! there has to be talent in order to make good music and be sucessfull! Which is why there are hardly any dance tracks being played! Because anyone can do it!

what label are you signed for? like for real, why even say that, can you master a track? i doubt you wrote and mastered a track in 10 minutes so... ......... ........ maybe next time relax because you need to stop the BS parade with statements like

I am a singer / songwriter and i made a dance track within 10mins all sounding perfect with vocals!. Where as Rock! there has to be talent in order to make good music and be sucessfull!

like honestly, did you master it too? what program did you use

and singer/songwriter i imagine you play a guitar? any this is for anyone else here who likes a guitar, you can't do anything new with a guitar, blues, rock and roll, metal, w/e it's been done on a guitar, nobody has out done hendrix, van halen, dime bag, name whoever but it's been done, on a guitar it's been done, THAT's repetitive

dance music, electronic music, edm, techno, w/e you want to call it is about dancing and feeling the music, if you listen to an emo band crying for 4 albums in a row, good for you, you are not alone,but you probably don't have a pulse and are a drag to be around

any media outlet couldn't play daft punk, they simply wouldn't make you enough money


appearing on tv like this? they haven't shown their faces in public for over 10 years now

they made the robot suits to have an image, to please virgin records i would imagine

as an artist in the music video age you can't be on much music (canadian music video station) with plastic masks on and expect the people watching tv to take interest, you have no breasts, you have no bling, you have nothing that is cool, what you are told is cool, unless $1 halloween masks are cool

radio is dying anyways, ipods, youtube, sat radio, it's more of an extension of the image record companys will portray for their artist and their music videos than it is a place for a disc jockey to spin some vinyl, it's money, music and money, evil has taken over

daft punk was getting radio play for "Da Funk"
and Around The World but they were also selling records on music alone, they didn't have an image, is the image Charles the dog, the skeletons in around the world? they changed their style with their albums after Homework which those 2 songs was on and it wasn't the same so to get their music noticed you have to start over, because they are showing up in public as robots


"at 14 i was offered an electric guitar" imagine that, 1/2 of daft punk can play the guitar

when Eric Prydz did call on me the sample he used Steve Winwoods Valerie
Steve Winwood liked what Eric Prydz did so much that he re-recorded the vocals just for Eric to use

i remember all the dutch people talking about that song when it came out and i had no clue, but it was being played on the radio there big time i was being told at the time (that song was so freaking awesome when i first heard it)

this is an electronic music guide, with samples, very good, a small history of electronic music

i can't find anything that would link up john lennon and electronic music not getting played on the radio skyshow, was it something he said? i read about his murderer, and the beatles were always experimenting with music but i can't think of anything right now


as for sitting at a computer pressing away and making computerized beats

here are some studios from various electronic music artists








and a website with lots of nice photos and details

these musicians are just that, musicians, they play instruments, they make music look at everyone one of them having a keyboard, i would imagine they use those keyboards and can play them

i don't know if there is a conspiracy here, but the last thing i have to say on the matter is PLUR electronic music preaches peace and a good time, beauty and grace, respect and tolerance, love and unity

maybe that's why you have to listen to 50 cent rap about his money, cars, women, jewelery and guns for the 4th album in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! come on now...really

dance music is a hit at the clubs because face it, guys and girls have to get drunk to relax enough in todays society to comfortably be together,talk and then dance, dance music is for dancing, and that's what you do with someone who's company you enjoy and while you want to have a good time, dancing is fun but the majority of people who enjoy it at a club have to get drunk to be comfortable around people of the opposite sex, so to use any club arguement is sadly not ever going to work because people don't want to be the guy at work who "likes techno" you can't tell a girl you like house music when you meet her if she's not drunk, that's that lol electronic music is still seen as different, people don't want to be different, electronic music is huge, you can be goth, you can be emo, rock, metal, country, you can't be house, you can't be techno, you can't be trance it's always different, and ever changing

you won't see it on radio because "video killed the radio star" my vote is image, no image, no $$$$

It doesn't fit the format. Stations play the same 10 or so songs over and over, no matter if it's a rock, country or hip-hop station.

Come to the UK, we have a big scene for electronic and dance music, it's even played on some mainstream radio stations.

All of the people saying that dance music is simple and all the same and computer generated, etc, haven't heard enough of it. I used to think exactly the same until I started studying electronic music as part of my course. There's a lot better stuff around than what you hear in the mainstream, if you want more interesting stuff try listening to 'intelligent dance music' (IDM).

Thing is though, electronic music artists usually aren't idolised and treated as celebrities, maybe that's a factor in why they aren't so popular in the US? Also, how many people actually dance to the radio? Most people listen to it in their cars or at work so they're not going to be dancing, they'll save that for bars and clubs.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Wow! Hours or even days to produce, eh? That's amazing. Wonder what all these silly talentless bands like say, oh, I don't know, Dream Theatre, or Tool are doing, taking a year or more to write and produce an album. They must not have a clue.
I guess that's why they sell out arena's and have platinum or higher selling albums with absolutley no radio play, not to mention actually having their credibilty attacked in music publications, if they are even mentioned at all.
I wished I could say, that I hate saying it, but "music" is played by musicians, i.e., people who actually play an instrument of some sort. Not some jackass with a turntable stealing someone elses work and remixing it to some electronic crap that a 7 year old could program into a sequencer after spending a half hour reading the manual.
In case you were wondering I am a musician, have been for 22 years, went to music college, and have played in every kind of band imaginable (glam rock, jazz, blues, heavy metal, speed metal, rockabilly, country, and even folk). And yes, I learned how to program a sequencer and a synth in less time than it took me to read the manual. Within 3 hours I created some god awful # that some of my electronica loving coworkers thought was the best thing they had ever heard 'till they found out I made it. So, whatever Trevor.

reply to post by skyshow



I've been to plenty of clubs where trance, dance, and techno are played. But I see what you are saying, it is quite uplifting music although I tend to prefer darker stuff like Rammstein. It probably has more to do with what people like listening to in there cars and iPods where honestly most people listen to music.

The whole rave scene turned me off to it, with their pasifiers (spelled wrong??) and glow sticks though.....

It' better this way because not a lot of people actually gets it. Keep it underground, they'll know where to look when they're ready for it. It's bad enough that they're playing the cheesy dance music you hear on the radio.

and another thing.. music is music, it shouldn't matter what you used or how you made it.