I'd give Boris a job, says Ken

- LMAO

WTH is "classist"?!

A desperate reach to obscure the real and pertinent point
(regarding incredible privilege and an almost complete ignorance of the majority populace of this country coupled with the autocratic bombastic attitude exemplified by Boris and his father at various times)?



- Which is very cute and all but I did not and have not "branded" Boris on the basis of "where he comes from".



- No infinite, you are now the one twisting the facts with this nonsense
(did you get that from "Zana-PF HQ? ).

The data I relayed relates to national British general elections and that is the truth of the matter.

Cameron & the tory party will require the largest swing ever achieved by a Tory opposition in modern times.
A swing greater even than that pulled off by Margaret Thatcher with the help of the Winter of Discontent.

Sorry but that is the absolute fact of the matter.

If you want to project these results in the event of a general election then by all means go for it but that does not render my comment wrong.

You also know as well as I that local elections (nevermind a Mayoral election, even if it was the capital) are quite different to a national general election.



- Er, no.

It is a matter of people being informed of elements of the character and 'roots' of the individual.
Just as it is perfectly legitimate for the tory party to point out, for instance, the trades union background of a Labour candidate or their origins.



- Oh dear.

Do you honestly believe such nonsense?

"Run down state schools"!?

After the years of sustained record education investment & record educational results children are leaving school with under this Gov?!

You'll have to do better than that.



- Well, the world is full of unusual opinions, eh?

......and they're hardly representative of "the (whole) left".



- That you Ste2652.

It seems like it's very bad form to remark upon the enormously disproportionate influence ex-public school boys (it's almost always boys) and the Ox-Bridge crowd have - and not only in public life either.

.....the poor little oppressed unfortunates!



[edit on 4-5-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

Back on topic, anyway.

I thought it was a nice change for Boris and Ken to pay such warm tributes to one another after the results were announced, and I hope Boris takes up Ken's offer of advice and help. It would be no bad thing in my view.

I also found it very amusing that the BNP candidate has been having an affair... with an immigrant! Oh, the hypocrisy. How can anyone take this party seriously?

reply to post by Ste2652

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I had a BNP candidate knocking on my door last year in the local elections. These individuals do not just have odious views, but have limited intelligence and did not understand anything. Neither of them knew or understood local government (they thought the BNP was standing in County council not City council)

No one will lose sleep over them.

Most of their councilors never turn up to meetings or ending up voting against their own motions.

Only reason the BNP got a seat was the death of UKIP (sorry Nigel, game over!). Once Labour are out of office and in opposition, the white working class will return to them.

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

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I know, but I pointed out that the Tories can achieve the swing if we use the evidence from the local elections. The Conservative Party would get a majority of 154 based on Thursdays vote share, however, I'm not sure Labour would get 24% in a general election though.

I'm not entirely sure that council elections are a good indicator of how a general election will go.

That said, a swingometer isn't the most scientific of methods either.

Headline News!

Today, Gordon Brown admitted he may have been wrong, and promised to listen to the people.

If that's the case, what's he been doing since the nineties?

Is he now telling us that he's just been totally ignoring us when he's been chancellor an PM, and is only now willing to listen?



[edit on 4/5/2008 by budski]

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

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What the devil do you mean "WTH is Classist"?

I thought you were meant to be a FSME... are you completely bewildered by the term or can you simply not refute it with logic and so choose to ridicule it? This sort of deflection wont work with me chap.

I even explained what I meant to you. I said that if I used a phrase such as "State school, inner city educated people are incapable of understanding the issues of the countryside", there would be furore. Yet you are quite comfortable mouthing off Red Flag inspired slogans such as "Oh great, just what we need... another Old Etonian who doesnt know the situation of the common man".

Let me ask you something. Is anyone educated at private school incapable of empathising with the situations and needs of the "common man"? Is it only socialist, collectivist, statist Guardian readers who are capable of understanding the concerns of the common man?!

Bollocks to classists, it is a form of discrimination like any other. If you fail to judge a man by his character rather than by the education afforded to him you are a bloody fool!

Exactly. I wouldn't like to call the result of the next election... we know how quickly things can change. Look at John McCain... a year ago he was written off. Now he's the Republican candidate.

Some councils in England and Wales didn't vote, no one in Scotland or Northern Ireland voted, and it's always difficult to know to what extent people vote for local issues or national issues.

Everything is still to play for. If there was an election tomorrow, I'd be very surprised if the Conservatives lost. But who knows what the political climate will be like in two years?

[edit on 4/5/08 by Ste2652]

reply to post by Ste2652

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I suspesct that the climate may be even more anti-labour if brown doesn't pull us out of iraq.

Afghanistan is a little more difficult as it's against "the war on drugs"

No way should we be involved in Iran/US in any military capacity.

Or even in a diplomatic capacity, come to that.

I think a lot depends on boris, as well.

Although he'll have plenty of help.

reply to post by budski

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I'm not sure Iraq will be the defining issue of the election... if it didn't topple Blair I don't think it'll topple Brown. That being said, we may well be out of Iraq by 2010 - it all depends who becomes the next US President. If the Americans leave, so do we.

Afghanistan is different - I don't get the impression people see it as unjust (remember, British citizens died on 9/11) or illegal (in fact, it was fully sanctioned by the UN). We have every right to be there, and I think we have a need to be there too. Brown, Cameron and Clegg have all said they won't withdraw troops from Afghanistan. If we leave Iraq, it's likely that the troop levels there will go up.

Brown will try to avoid getting involved with Iran unless he absolutely has to... and if the Americans invade, I can't see UK troops doing much. Maybe some RAF airstrikes or something, but it'll be mostly diplomatic and political support. It'd be difficult to deploy troops anywhere else - they're already in numerous locations (the UK itself, Germany, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Falklands, Cyprus, Brunei, Sierra Leone and so forth). Our defence budget (the official, published one anyway... the real figure is probably higher but research costs, secret projects etc. will be kept out of public figures) is about 10% of that of the US so we can't be expected to do exactly as the US does. Simply put, we're at our limit. There are enough resources to scrape together should an emergency occur but that's about it I think.

A lot does rest on Boris, yes - if he does well it's a feather in Cameron's cap and he can take another step closer to Number Ten. We'll see how it goes... Boris has potential (he's not as daft as he seems).

- When people invent their own risible terminology to help pursue their little points scoring exercise it's perfectly fair to ask what they are up to.



- Which (again) is not quite what I ever did say.

You can take the 'class war' (to give it it's proper and familiar term) line if you like but that is not the complete basis of any of what I have said.

Work away tho, I'm sure it makes a hell of a lot of sense to you.
You seem to support a situation where we overwhelmingly have the most unrepresentitive representitives in our representitve democracy.

Move along, nothing to see here, eh?



- ......and that tells us everything we need to know about where you are coming from in this.

Good day.

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

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en.wikipedia.org...

www.classism.org...

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Making up my own terms, am I?

I give up. I see debate is impossible with those so enamoured by New Labour even after 10 years of them sending this country down the crapper.

- OK, so it's an obscure Americanism, my apologies, as a British person it is a term I can honestly say I have never encountered before.

The rest of what I said stands.

You cherry picked a very minor point and claimed that was the sole basis on which I have 'judged' Boris - and meanwhile ignored the rest of what I said about him.

......and as I said, your discourteous and hostile "bloody fool" nonsense alone with this latest personal party political bash tells me everything I need to know about where you are coming from.

In your haste to knock my POV I notice you have absolutely nothing to say about Boris' racist comments, his insulting comments to the people of Liverpool nor his noted distain for detail.

You can whirl in circles defending the most privileged in our society if you like - because it suits your own party political agenda?

Good luck discussing that absurd nonsense with someone else.
Good day.

Discussion etiquitte

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

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No... but i hear Londonistan is doing very nice...

Politics is Crazy... a year ago, McCain was Dead in the water... anybody that loves this country knows that John McCain is just not a good canidate for President... but now he is the Front runner... the dems have so much infighting, we are going to have President McCain...

PS, whats an Eltionan and a Pikey? I know this is a UK topic but... Us in the US don't understand half the things you say...

- I agree & have some sympathy for your prediction as to what the net outcome of the Pres election could be.

As you say, it can surprise so much.



Eton

Old Etonians

Eton Bullingdon club

Pikey

I hope that helps.