I'd give Boris a job, says Ken, page 1

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Topic started on 27-4-2008 @ 09:04 AM by infinite

Ken Livingstone yesterday offered to give his Tory rival a job and train him as a future mayoral candidate, in an extraordinary last-minute bid for Tory votes.

After weeks of dismissing Boris Johnson as a lightweight celebrity, Livingstone conceded he would try to employ his opponent if he were re-elected and even hinted that he could put Johnson in pole position for the 2012 elections.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Observer, the embattled mayor also called on the government to dump plans to detain terror suspects without trial for up to 42 days, warning that it 'would not save a single Londoner's life' and would jeopardise Muslim co-operation with the security services.

The Observer

I think this is extremely nice of Ken, especially the idea of training Boris up as a future Mayor of London (what an offer!)

Even though I believe the London election has no significant factor to the rest of the UK, council elections will be more of a worry to the Labour party, it is still interesting to see who will win.

reply posted on 27-4-2008 @ 02:05 PM by Ste2652

reply to post by infinite

Although I don't live in London and never have, I think the Mayoral race has more importance than you think. Does it speak for the rest of the UK? Not at all. London is a very different place to anywhere else in the country.

But the fact that there are so many people living in the city (approximately 8.2million) and that it contains 74 Parliamentary constituencies (just over 11% of the House of Commons as a whole) means that London is very important in electoral terms.

I agree that the local council elections across England and Wales will give a better barometer of support for the various parties, though.

In my view the Tories don't seem to have taken the Mayoral race seriously... it seemed to have been a convenient way to edge Boris out of Parliament because he was becoming a liability (upsetting Liverpool, having affairs and so on). Livingstone and Paddick are the superior candidates.

reply posted on 27-4-2008 @ 03:32 PM by infinite

reply to post by Ste2652

Paddick is a joke, sorry, but he is.

I'll never forget the first debate on ITV where he failed to give a good enough reason why he wanted to be mayor, without looking at his notes.

Lib Dems should of put up a stronger candidate. Paddick has been ignored by the media also.

Speaking of the media, anyone else notice the murdoch papers (and Skynews) have suddenly become pro-Tory? Sky had a special [on their website] of Boris:the Clown to King and Adam Boulton has nothing but love for David Cameron

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 10:26 AM by UKTruthSeeker

Boris working for Ken? Seriously what is happening here?

I remember reading the other day that Labour MP Kate Hoey would work for Boris if he won the election; External Source

This is further evidence to show that the political parties of today have barely any differences between them, when have you ever heard of a member of the Labour party working with the Conservatives.

In my mind this shows the fact that in todays political climate, all parties are essentially the same and so what is the point of our multi party system? No wonder there is voter apathy when you cant tell your Conservative party from your "Lefty" Labour Party.

On another note, building on from that point - it would be interesting to see the voter turnout of the London Mayoral Election. I know someone who has worked in polling stations for many years, and they have said that this year they were less busy than any other.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 09:41 PM by TKainZero

So who is the new Mayor of London?

About what about him? Whats his story?

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 08:32 AM by sminkeypinkey

Boris won, TKainZero.

Just what London needs, an old Etonian with a profound lack of interest in detail with a family-entrenched attitude of being born to (autocratic) rule
(.....someone also prone to making outrageously offensive comments).
Not.

It'll be interesting to see how people react when many of his headline grabbing (but completely unrealistic & superficial) 'policies' cannot be implemented
(the no strike deal with the tube or the removal of bendy busses and the reintroduction of the Routemaster are very obvious examples).

Still if anything it gives people a couple of years warning as to what this new gen of torys are like given a sniff of power.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 09:29 AM by 44soulslayer

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

Im sick and tired of people using phrases such as "old etonian" or "public schoolboy" as a pejorative label.

Its as unjust as me dismissing someone's abilities because of their race/ being state school educated/ from a poor background. If I did any of those things I would get slated... how come nobody bats an eyelid when there is reverse-classism?

The man has just been elected by over a million Londoners. Give him a bloody chance to implement his policies before you judge him. If it all goes well over the next two years, how will you respond I wonder?

Same old entrenched, partisan views...pitiful.

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 02:57 PM by infinite

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

Nice to see NuLabour supporters still do not support democratic wishes and think the whole of the UK should be under a one party state

He may be untested, but no need to come across like a Zanu-PF apologist from Zimbabwe. Majority voted for Boris under a much fairer voting system than first-past-the-post.

Unless you are a fascist*, you should not have any problem with a democratic decision

*Or Hazel Blears

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 04:14 PM by budski

Sorry for this sminkey, and I know I said the same thing in another thread, but are you sure you're not Polly Toynbee?

jk

Seriously though, I find the bitterness a little unbecoming in someone as well educated about the political process as you.

And I never thought that you'd be so upset about the election results - but I am assuming you're very passionate about your politics, and that's why you feel the way you do about boris (or should we call him BJ? for Boris Johnson?)

Nevertheless, let's at least give boris a chance.

Even if he messes it up, at the very least we'll be able to chuckle at his antics occasionally.

Who knows, he may even do a good job....

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 04:53 PM by Ste2652

Originally posted by budski
(or should we call him BJ? for Boris Johnson?)

The Conservatives have branded 'BJ' an unfortunate acronym (for obvious reasons) and have thus decided to call him BoJo, apparently...

We'll see how he goes. I still feel Ken was the stronger candidate despite his faults, but the next four years will be interesting for Londoners if nothing else.

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 05:28 PM by 44soulslayer

Did anyone else watching the televised debates feel an inexplicable sympathy for Ken? I am a card carrying Conservative, but I almost wanted to vote for him at one stage; it was as if I was under hypnosis!

I disliked most of his policies, yet I really liked the chap's demeanour. I disliked his anti-semitic outbursts and his comradeship with Chavez, yet I liked the way he was quiet and composed as opposed to the flamboyance of Boris and the belligerence of Paddick.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by 44soulslayer]

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 05:31 PM by infinite

reply to post by 44soulslayer

Yeah, it was an emotional end. Red Ken was amazing during July 7th, but the corruption linked to him (not his fault) probably cost him the job.

And, lets not forget, The Evening Standard carried out a hate campaign against him

reply posted on 3-5-2008 @ 06:20 PM by budski

Originally posted by infinite
reply to post by 44soulslayer

And, lets not forget, The Evening Standard carried out a hate campaign against him

Pretty much the same as the guardian did to boris then.

Or tried to...

Seems it backfired a bit when BoJo started behaving with a touch of professionalism.

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 04:48 AM by TKainZero

Intresting...

This is the first conservative that has won Mayor of London in 30 years... thats great...

Red Ken... now thats a nickname... you say he was Anti-semetic? And was buddies with Chavez... hmmm...

I wonder if this tread will carry to the national elections...

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 09:41 AM by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Im sick and tired of people using phrases such as "old etonian" or "public schoolboy" as a pejorative label.

- Actually it was a descriptive (and 100% accurate) label.

You're the one taking it a "pejorative" of itself.

I think it's only fair that people are aware of the minute and incredibly privileged strata these people are from & only have experience of for large parts of their formative lives.

Of course not all old Etonians/public school boys are from incredibly privileged backgrounds, that's true, just almost all of them.

If you don't think that's relevant that's up to you but you're in a small minority there yourself on that one.

In fact your remarks remind me of the ridiculous 'MOPE' claims of the white middle class male (most oppressed people ever).

Originally posted by infinite
Nice to see NuLabour supporters still do not support democratic wishes and think the whole of the UK should be under a one party state

- Bl**dy hell infinite, slight exaggeration there or what?!

Of course I respect the democratic wishes of the electorate but I'm entitled to support the party & policies I prefer, I don't have to 'endorse' the opposition's just because they won now, do I?

Originally posted by TKainZero
This is the first conservative that has won Mayor of London in 30 years... thats great...

- I'd look him up a little before lauding him too highly, he has a career strewn with unfortunate and unpleasant 'moments' from casually offensive racist comments to insulting the entire people of a major British city with stupidly crass remarks.

Originally posted by TKainZero
Red Ken... now thats a nickname...

- That comes from the old GLC days, a typical tory smear......and some of the laughably infantile & wildly outrageous stuff that they used to spout about KL & their lurid little gulag day-dreams about what would happen if he and his mates ever got into power have to be heard to be believed.

He was Mayor for 8 years......did London become a soviet city?

I think not.

In fact he was so not "red" that even the tory party here have to admit he did a lot of good for London & Londoners in his 8yrs.

Originally posted by TKainZero
you say he was Anti-semetic?

- You ought to look into the incident and KL's background.

Ken Livingstone wiki biog

Ken Livingstone is not anti-semitic

Originally posted by TKainZero
And was buddies with Chavez... hmmm...

- He arranged an oil deal beneficial to both the people of London (but especially the least well off and London's public transportation system) & the Venezuelans.......and what?

Originally posted by TKainZero
I wonder if this tread will carry to the national elections...

- We've a couple of years to go before then most likely.

If a week is a long time in politics a couple of years is a lifetime.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 10:01 AM by 44soulslayer

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

Impressive. I see you have attended the Anthony Blair school of Spin.

You can't possibly wash your hands of such a comment by saying it was "descriptive".

Replace "Old Etonian" with "Black" or "Jewish" or "Pikey" and see if it is still descriptive rather than perjorative and offensive!

Edit: Additionally, what if I made the claim that black, inner city born and state school educated people have no idea about the lives of those living in the suburbs? Such an idea would be branded racist and classist.

How about giving Boris a chance to exercise his abilities before pre-judging him based on your percieved notions of his exposure to the issues or his ability to govern London.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by 44soulslayer]

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 11:00 AM by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
You can't possibly wash your hands of such a comment by saying it was "descriptive".

Replace "Old Etonian" with "Black" or "Jewish" or "Pikey" and see if it is still descriptive rather than perjorative and offensive!

- No, that merely indicates the absurdity of what you are trying to do here.

"Old Etonian" is not an ethnic, religious or sexist description:
you might wish that it were and therefore get away with this nonsense but it isn't, plain and simple.

The fact is that you're flogging a dead horse to try and claim that the most privileged social strata in Britain is being oppressed by people being reminded of their very unusual & highly privileged social 'position'.

.....and for those day-dreaming of a tory victory at the next general election I'd just add this little nugget of truth -

David Cameron will require the largest swing ever achieved by a Tory opposition in modern times, a swing greater even than that pulled off by Margaret Thatcher with the help of the Winter of Discontent.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by sminkeypinkey]

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 11:48 AM by 44soulslayer

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

"Old Etonian", employed in the context by yourself is not racist, sexist or religious but it is classist .

How about if I said "Gordon Brown... great, just what this country needs- another state school, non-oxbridge educated man with a family entrenched attitude of dourness and inclination to collectivism".

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that such a comment would not get me branded as a classist, aristocratic bastard by the Guardian et al?

I wouldnt dream of branding anyone by where they came from, but would rather judge them by their actions. Evidently you are not of the same opinion.

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 12:38 PM by infinite

reply to post by sminkeypinkey

As for your nugget...

If Thursday vote was a general election. Cameron would have a majority of 154 based on the Poll. So, your propaganda from Zanu-PF HQ is wrong.

Tories 44%
Lib Dems 25%
Labour 24%

44soulslayer

Those guardianist have a problem with anyone from a public school. It is not an issue, but people on the left want us all educated in run down state schools whilst being taught how bad Britain was to the world

Sorry if I sound rude, but the communist group at my uni felt Boris had no right to run in an election. Apparently, democracy is a bad term on the left

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 01:30 PM by Ste2652

Originally posted by infinite
Sorry if I sound rude, but the communist group at my uni felt Boris had no right to run in an election. Apparently, democracy is a bad term on the left

It's a communist party... what do you expect? Communism isn't democratic and isn't compatible with democracy.

If sminkey was saying there has been an unrepresentative bias towards public school educated, Oxbridge Prime Ministers in recent times he would be right. Since the end of World War II, only three of our Prime Ministers (Callaghan, Major and Brown) haven't been to either Oxford or Cambridge. Callaghan and Major didn't get to university at all, in fact. But they are two out of eleven Prime Ministers... the majority of people don't go to university, and 98% of those that do go to universities other than Oxford or Cambridge. Is it right that our Prime Ministers aren't representative of us? Does it even matter? Does someone from a state school understand Britain's problems in different/better/worse terms to someone from a public school? I honestly don't know the answer to that.

My local MP is Labour, yet she's been to Oxford and Harvard University in the USA. I can honestly say that vast majority in people in this constituency don't get to University, and only a handful that do go to Oxbridge. Does that matter? Does it mean she can't represent us? Not to me... as long as she does her job, I really don't mind.

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