OxmanK

If you would look at the record of Abraham Lincoln, you would be surprised by his many failures throughout his life and career. So, pointing to Bush's past can mean a lot, or it can mean nothing.

Was GWB president when GM closed down their plants and decimated Flint, MI? No, he was not. Not fair to try to tie him in with it, then.

Automakers had very hard times because of their own mismanagement and excessive demands of unions, not because of GWB.

Outsourcing jobs? I hope you're not pinning your hopes on Kerry, that he will be any different. Kerry voted for NAFTA. Kerry lives off of wifey Teresa, whose Heinz corporation has outsourced approx. 75% of their plants overseas.

I hate to see jobs exported. But how can a shoe manufacturer afford to pay workers $15/hour for a $20 pair of shoes that takes 10 minutes to make?

I think some form of protectionism is in order here in the US, like they do in Japan. It is cheaper for a Japanese person to buy some goods here in the US than it is to buy them in Japan. And I'm talking about goods that were manufactured in Japan.

john

I think you may be wrong. Fresh minds are sometimes a good thing. While all the rest of us are stuck in a rut, a new mind could come along with new ideas and pull us out. Youth isn't always a bad thing.

But then of course, you have those idiot kids who just follow everyone else and believe whatever they're told. Those don't help, and sadly they make up most of the younger population.

I don't know, overall, I'd say they are just like the rest of us.

Originally posted by jsobecky
OxmanK

If you would look at the record of Abraham Lincoln, you would be surprised by his many failures throughout his life and career. So, pointing to Bush's past can mean a lot, or it can mean nothing.

Alright, you got me...or...How many great things did good ole Abe do? He went to war and freed slaves. I'm even willing to go as far as to say that anyone who would have been the 16th President would have done that, bar Jefferson Davis. Yes his failures do matter, because he is running the country the same way he ran those businesses...to the ground.

Was GWB president when GM closed down their plants and decimated Flint, MI? No, he was not. Not fair to try to tie him in with it, then.

Automakers had very hard times because of their own mismanagement and excessive demands of unions, not because of GWB.

I am not saying that GWB was responsible for Flint. After all, it was Bush and Reagan who were in power during that time. What I was attempting to do was draw a clever parralell to it and the outsourcing problem of today. Scary thing of all of this is that you missed the obvious and went with the dumbest retort. If you watch ROGER AND ME you know that it wasn't GWB's fault. Anybody who would claim the downfall of Flint on GWB is a RETARD. I was giving an example of how outsourcing and moving jobs #S over the people.

Outsourcing jobs? I hope you're not pinning your hopes on Kerry, that he will be any different. Kerry voted for NAFTA. Kerry lives off of wifey Teresa, whose Heinz corporation has outsourced approx. 75% of their plants overseas.

There does seem to be a problem on this board. People would rather point out "The oppositions white knight" and destroy that then destroy the issue. It bothers me. WRONG IS WRONG IS WRONG. Why must people be so god damned idiotic when it comes to politics. Did I even mention Kerry in my previous post? Go ahead...take some time....re-read it. There isn't even some type of sarcastic hint at Kerry in my post or any of them in this topic. This is a way to dodge the problem and not admit your guy is wrong.

I hate to see jobs exported. But how can a shoe manufacturer afford to pay workers $15/hour for a $20 pair of shoes that takes 10 minutes to make?

Oh dammit no. Not the rich guy not being able to afford his gold plated bar by his swimming pool this year. At those rates, him and his family can make a damn nice lump of money that year. Do you honestly believe that that guy would not make money? That is ludicrous. Even if half of what is made off of the shoes is paid to tax and other costs of operation, he still makes damn good money. I get your point, but I don't see how the owner of the company would not profit at those rates. A better analogy is $10 an hour lettuce picker...Besides, most of those jobs like that are ENTRY LEVEL POSITIONS. $5.15 to $7.15 an hour...tops.

I think some form of protectionism is in order here in the US, like they do in Japan. It is cheaper for a Japanese person to buy some goods here in the US than it is to buy them in Japan. And I'm talking about goods that were manufactured in Japan.

john

Bush: Best president ever???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Bush proves that it is not what you know, but who you know. I am embarased for all of America when morons like Bush can slither their way into office.

Originally posted by kramtronix

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Let's see.

Economy unable to add jobs and the ones being added are near minimum wage.

I guess 2.2 million new jobs since 2000 is not big deal, huh?

It's a HUGE DEAL, but not in the way you're thinking. The demographics of our country being what they are, 500,000 jobs a year does not keep pace with the number of High School/College/Trade School graduates who enter the work force each year. Not even remotely close. Add to that those existing workers displaced from company closures due to the Bush economy, and it's a multiple of despair.
This, and the the statement that Bush is a better President than Clinton beggers the question: "Does the crack pipe ever leave your hand, or is it a hard wired appendage" ?

Oxman

Does it matter if GWB shouts from the rooftops that outsourcing jobs is a good idea? Whose decision is it to ship the jobs overseas? Unless he is shipping government jobs overseas, he can voice his own opinion and you can take it or leave it.

On the same tack, does it matter who was president during the GM thing? NO it does not. It was MISMANAGEMENT and GREEDY UNIONS and POOR QUALITY that was the cause of GM's woes. You want to protect poor workmanship? Don't expect to survive in a global economy, if you do.

As far as Kerry goes, I mentioned it because I was hoping that you would have a better solution to GWB, not just "replace him at all costs". Since it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that one of those two will be in charge for the next 4 years, it was a valid point to bring up Kerry's record. I was not attacking anybody's white knight, I was pointing out that he has already done what it is that people are accusing GWB of favoring. Get the distinction?

john

Originally posted by kramtronix

Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Let's see.

Economy unable to add jobs and the ones being added are near minimum wage.

I guess 2.2 million new jobs since 2000 is not big deal, huh?

You are mistaken friend. The net job LOSS since 2000 is 2.2 million. Apparently, you need a little more studying of the situation.

clinton was one of the worst you can see it because bush would have send troups to rwanda but clinton didn't and because of the lack of suport UN troups where pulled out of rwanda and in the mean time 800000 people were murdered.
Bush would have send in soldiers.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Oxman

Does it matter if GWB shouts from the rooftops that outsourcing jobs is a good idea? Whose decision is it to ship the jobs overseas? Unless he is shipping government jobs overseas, he can voice his own opinion and you can take it or leave it.

Would it matter if he stood ontop of a rooftop and shouted, "I support internation terrorism or extreme anti-semitism?" You bet your ass it does. It makes him a bad person and leader for it. Believe it or not, there are people who still believe in him and trust in his word.

And don't you think that he might start shipping government jobs overseas? He obviously supports that train of thought, so why won't he put it into practice? Outsourcing is a problem in this country. If the head honcho says it's alright, he not only supports the practice of it, but also those who do ship off those jobs and the people who profit.

On the same tack, does it matter who was president during the GM thing? NO it does not. It was MISMANAGEMENT and GREEDY UNIONS and POOR QUALITY that was the cause of GM's woes. You want to protect poor workmanship? Don't expect to survive in a global economy, if you do.

No it does not. Again you missed my Flint point, which is pretty #ing valid, and I am pretty damned tired of you trying to make me look like a goob on it. IT DOES NOT #ING MATTER WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT. THE MOTHER #ING POINT OF IT WAS TO POINT OUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OUTSOURCING HAPPENS. (Notice, the goddamned period.) It was not GWB's faut for that. I acknowledged that in the last post.

As far as Kerry goes, I mentioned it because I was hoping that you would have a better solution to GWB, not just "replace him at all costs". Since it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that one of those two will be in charge for the next 4 years, it was a valid point to bring up Kerry's record. I was not attacking anybody's white knight, I was pointing out that he has already done what it is that people are accusing GWB of favoring. Get the distinction?

No, Kerry is not valid here. This, I believe, is "Bush the best president ever". Do you see Kerry up there. Is this "Kerry the worst candidate ever" or "Kerry is a # faced cock master and a douchbag"? I don't think it is. Also, that type of indifference in your statement is what is wrong with this country. It is born of the same type of mindset as "If you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it." How much kicking and screaming are you doing so that we don't have either of those two in the office? It's never too late to change people's mind until their vote has been casted.

john

Yeah....eat me.

Clinton isn't my fave either, but at least all other nations did was point to us and snicker a little at sexual misdeeds, instead of hate us for imperialism...not to mention, we had a budget surplus, instead of a defecit for the first time in years....

Originally posted by OXmanK


Would it matter if he stood ontop of a rooftop and shouted, "I support internation terrorism or extreme anti-semitism?" You bet your ass it does. It makes him a bad person and leader for it. Believe it or not, there are people who still believe in him and trust in his word.

And don't you think that he might start shipping government jobs overseas? He obviously supports that train of thought, so why won't he put it into practice? Outsourcing is a problem in this country. If the head honcho says it's alright, he not only supports the practice of it, but also those who do ship off those jobs and the people who profit.

How in the world you can compare his support for outsourcing - which, BTW, you have never proven - with anti-semitic remarks is beyond the pale. As far as him shipping gov't jobs overseas, that's not even debatable until it actually happens, is it? Stop shouting that the sky is falling.


On the same tack, does it matter who was president during the GM thing? NO it does not. It was MISMANAGEMENT and GREEDY UNIONS and POOR QUALITY that was the cause of GM's woes. You want to protect poor workmanship? Don't expect to survive in a global economy, if you do.

No it does not. Again you missed my Flint point, which is pretty #ing valid, and I am pretty damned tired of you trying to make me look like a goob on it. IT DOES NOT #ING MATTER WHO WAS THE PRESIDENT. THE MOTHER #ING POINT OF IT WAS TO POINT OUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OUTSOURCING HAPPENS. (Notice, the goddamned period.) It was not GWB's faut for that. I acknowledged that in the last post.

Your point is, "outsourcing is bad"? Wow! Thanks for the revelation, but I don't think that point was ever in dispute.

And you continue to avoid the point that it does not matter what the president "believes" to be a good idea, it is up to the BOD of a company to make outsourcing decisions. Go hate them instead (too).


No, Kerry is not valid here. This, I believe, is "Bush the best president ever". Do you see Kerry up there. Is this "Kerry the worst candidate ever" or "Kerry is a # faced cock master and a douchbag"? I don't think it is. Also, that type of indifference in your statement is what is wrong with this country. It is born of the same type of mindset as "If you're going to get raped, you might as well lay back and enjoy it." How much kicking and screaming are you doing so that we don't have either of those two in the office? It's never too late to change people's mind until their vote has been casted.


No, it's not the Kerry topic. Nor is it the Roger Smith or Michael Moore topic. And please tell me just what it is that YOU are doing to change things other than kicking and screaming? It's easy to make noise, not so easy to come up with a better solution, is it?

john

Yeah....eat me.

No, you're too anxious, and I don't go that way. Go ask your boyfriend to do it for you.

I'm just curious, does your IQ drop 50 points for entering this thread? I'm leaving before it's too late.

Originally posted by RANT
I'm just curious, does your IQ drop 50 points for entering this thread? I'm leaving before it's too late.

Why so shy - fearing you drop below zero?

it obvious why he have a deifeceit.


1. The tax cut

2. War with Iraq

3. War with afghanistan

4.Energy Bill

5. Medicare Bill

ive got to disagree on this one. A president who doesn't want to play fair with other countries... he lied about wmd... i could go on and on...

Originally posted by bushfriend
it obvious why he have a deifeceit.


1. The tax cut

2. War with Iraq

3. War with afghanistan

4.Energy Bill

5. Medicare Bill

No dude, we have a deficit because of government waste and government being too big.

-Social spending in general

-Over extention of troops (bases worldwide)

-Bankrolling numberous countries, or at least sending them some AID

-Over/redundant/wrongful use of funds we do have.