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Fresno Student Shot, Killed by Police Officer After Bat Attack

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posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 01:47 PM
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The school resource officer is there to protect the lives of the students there. In this the cop failed miserably. If they have to end the life of a student to protect themselves, they shouldn't be there. "I had to kill the kid to protect him."

Also, 'Geodon' is one of those SSRIs where the user sometimes is no longer able to distinguish between the dream state and conscious reality, so the kid might have just been having a bad dream.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by starviego]




posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by starviego
 



The school resource officer is there to protect the lives of the students there. In this the cop failed miserably. If they have to end the life of a student to protect themselves, they shouldn't be there. "I had to kill the kid to protect him."


What about the rest of the students? Didn't the officer have a responsibility to them to neutralize a clearly violent threat? What would have happened if the student had gotten the officer's gun? Perhaps yet another campus shooting spree?



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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You're dealing in hypotheticals. My point was the cop is there to protect all the kids, not himself. If he can't handle the problem without whacking the kid, he should not have been there in the first place. But as our police are trained to handle any threat by killing it, we shouldn't be surprised at the outcome. Anyway a nation that puts an armed police officer in every secondary school has lost its bearings anyway....



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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schism85

I was all prepared to jump dead in your liberal, all cops are bad, psyche. Fortunately for me, I read the whole thread first.


It is often very eay to armchair a situation like that and without being there, judgment can seem so correct.

I applaud you for keeping an open mind. That is a commodity which is, more often than not, notable by it's absence on ATS lately.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by starviego
You're dealing in hypotheticals. My point was the cop is there to protect all the kids, not himself. If he can't handle the problem without whacking the kid, he should not have been there in the first place. But as our police are trained to handle any threat by killing it, we shouldn't be surprised at the outcome. Anyway a nation that puts an armed police officer in every secondary school has lost its bearings anyway....


This is probably going to get me in trouble or banned, and after just getting my password reset. I won't have a chance to educate you. But, starviego, you are basically an idiot.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by starviego
You're dealing in hypotheticals. My point was the cop is there to protect all the kids, not himself. If he can't handle the problem without whacking the kid, he should not have been there in the first place.


Yeah, he should have laid there and died like a man
.

Really, what are you implying he should have done. Everyone, regardless of whether or not they are a cop, has the right to defend themselves when their life is in danger. This is an inalienable human right, it's got nothing to do with the fact that he is a cop.

I'm the first to side with the victims of excessive police force, but this is a cut and dry case. Are you telling us that if a 250lb man, who had already whacked you over the head with a bat, was coming at you again to take another swing, and you had a gun, you wouldn't save yourself? Do some reading on Darwin, I think the principals apply here...



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by sigung86
 


Thanks for your post, I gave it a star as I did with many of the posts on this thread. I always try to keep an opened mind, and know that I am not always going to be right, but the beauty of it is, I can learn from my mistakes, and I can continue to grow as a person by seeking truth. If I am wrong sometimes it is okay, as long as I keep an open mind, it will lead me to the truth. Thank you for seeing that.

And as for starviego I went down that road already, read the entire thread, then this story may make a little more sense to you. I thought the same thing untill you come to the conclusion that there was no other possible outcome. I understand what you are saying but the cop is just a human being too, he is not superman. And I also believe that a society that has to have a cop and medal detectors in schools have lost its bearings, and unfortunately that is what has to be done nowadays to protect people from themselves and others. Its just the wicked world we live in today, nothing like the 50s and 60s.





[edit on 18-4-2008 by schism85]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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Until you are that cop and took the hit from the baseball bat, nobody can say what they would have done or what he should of done. I'm saying self defense all the way and it's a shame that a seventeen year old student has to act out his frustration that got the cop hurt and himself killed. Life is to precious to let things get to you. There's to many people out there that have it worse, but they wouldn't hurt someone because of it. Seventeen years old and never got to experience what comes with becoming an adult and maybe giving life and becoming a daddy. It's a shame that some just want to give up life.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by starviego
 



You're dealing in hypotheticals. My point was the cop is there to protect all the kids, not himself. If he can't handle the problem without whacking the kid, he should not have been there in the first place. But as our police are trained to handle any threat by killing it, we shouldn't be surprised at the outcome.


This is not hpothetical by any means. The student attacked an armed officer with a deadly weapon. That student, regardless of who he happened to attack, represented a threat to the safety of the entire student body, and every other person on that campus at the very least.

The uniform represents safety, and the student attacked the person wearing it. In other words, he was not just attacking a man in uniform, but the safety that the uniform represents and the duty to safety the officer held.

EDIT to add: Here's a hypothetical for you. What if the officer shot and killed a student who was beating a little old librarian in the head with a club? I'll bet that more people would be coming out to call "hero."



Anyway a nation that puts an armed police officer in every secondary school has lost its bearings anyway....


This statement I have to agree with.



[edit on 4/18/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Anyway a nation that puts an armed police officer in every secondary school has lost its bearings anyway....


This statement I have to agree with.



Yeah, and I know Roosevelt has had a full-time On-Campus Police Officer since back in '82/'83, but I do not remember having any non-police campus security...



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by FewWorldOrder
 


It seems that this "Roosevelt" is a special needs school for problem students. That would probably explain the need for armed security. Just in case something like this ever happened.

EDIT to add: But there is plenty of armed security in regular schools too, and is is proof positive that our society has lost its way.

[edit on 4/18/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Jackinthebox:
"It seems that this "Roosevelt" is a special needs school for problem students. That would probably explain the need for armed security. Just in case something like this ever happened."

It is actually a "Magnet" school, the "Magnet" is Roosevelts' Performing Arts program.

It has its "special needs" curriculum/program for those students that require that, but it is not exclusively a "special needs" school.


[edit on 18-4-2008 by FewWorldOrder]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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reply to post by FewWorldOrder
 


Thanks for pointing that out. We have a school here for "problem" students who can't stay in their regular public schools.

Any thoughts on why an armed officer would have been placed in this school all the way back in the 80's? Bad neighborhood maybe?



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


I don't know. Have you ever heard of Robbins Illinois. Well it isn't the best neighborhood and many people from the area would agree. It is a poverty stricken town. I went to a "behavior school" there in roughly 2002. I went there from freshman year to sophmore year untill I left, and there were no armed guards there at all. In fact at least once a day the class erupted from someone acting out and the teachers handled it fine, they would just restrain the students and put them in a locked room about 5' by 5' with a steel door, untill they calmed down enough to go back to class. They had it under control.

But the classes were tiny, about 8-10 students per class with one main teacher and a teachers aid. And you were not allowed to leave the class without a teachers aid unless you had special privileges. Maybe in "Roosevelt" there are to many kids that are possible gang bangers and trouble makers and not enough teachers or force to control the situation if something were to happen. Therefore they hire an armed guard to do it for them. To keep the peace when necessary.










[edit on 18-4-2008 by schism85]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


I believe most people would consider it a "bad" area/neighborhood.
Gangs have been a problem here for a long time.
I'm confident in saying latinos are the overwhelming majority in this area of town, not trying to infer anything, just stating what I know.

Most of the wealth in Fresno is in the north of the city, Roosevelt is sort of south/centrally located in a predominately minority area.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:37 PM
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Okay I went threw and read this story before I posted. And let me add, Ive been mistreated by cops. They are not on my good side and lets leave it at that.

However.. I dont think the cop was in the wrong for killing this kid.
The kid was armed with a baseball bat! Not only was a bat in this kids hand, but he used it on the cop!! Baseball bats in the hand of an elven year old can be very deadly!!!
Im not one to stick up for most cops, but in this case, I have to agree, deadly force was his way to defend himself from being killed himself.
Bashed over the head with a bat can be as deadly as a firearm.

Let this be a lesson. If you want to die.. Go up and attack a cop with a deadly weapon.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by zysin5
Let this be a lesson. If you want to die.. Go up and attack a cop with a deadly weapon.


Or pull out a cell phone from your waist band in front of him. It will work just as well.

They are always looking out for their own safety as there are alot of nuts out there. No one can blame the cop for what happened. You are right.


[edit on 18-4-2008 by schism85]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by schism85
 


We have a Roosevelt High School here, where the police are having a hard time. There are some ongoing racial tensions between students, among some other problems going on there. A year or two ago, a cop was jumped and at the school by a bunch of kids. No one got killed, but it seems to me that there were no armed officers posted at the school until after this incident...


Principal arrested for own stabbing


...No wonder kids have no respect for authority.



[edit on 4/18/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by zysin5
 


That "kid" wasn't small either. Over six-foot and nearing 300 pounds I think it said.



posted on Apr, 18 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


Thats funny you say that because we have one here too. It is located in Chicago in another bad neighborhood. And there was an incident that happened right in front of the school on Feb. 7th 2002.

Here is the link:School Violence 2001-2002
Scroll down almost to the bottom untill you read Illinois.


As classes were dismissing for today, two 16-year-old boys began fighting in front of Roosevelt High when 15-year-old Jose Vela began firing on his classmates. Jose injured the two boys and a female student. The girl attended Roosevelt and was shot in the arm. The two boys, one being Jason Chavez, were from nearby Schurz High School. This shooting happened at 2:50 p.m. One of the boys was shot in the back and in serious condition at Advocate Illinoise Masonic Medical Center. The other boy and the girl were treated and released.


It seems like "Roosevelt" schools all over are prone to gangs and violence.


[edit on 18-4-2008 by schism85]



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