Fresno Student Shot, Killed by Police Officer After Bat Attack

I'm usually among the first to distrust the police, but if someone that large is coming at you with a bat having already hit you from behind, he's trying to kill you. The cop was right to defend himself. Forget that shoot to wound fantasy. Suppose he had shot at the guys leg or the bat and missed, and hit someone else. A shot up (cop is on the ground) at the torso of the attacker is the best and actually the only safe shot the cop could have made.

I could be wrong but it really seems that simple in this case. Stupid kid. Lucky cop.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Like I said before, I jumped to a conclusion too quickly. I almost always say its the cops fault, it is my nature. And like I said in my other post I have taken alot in from this thread and I did not mean to be so harsh and one sided. I was throwing questions out there, I never personally belived that mace would have done anything to help him. I just don't think this kid was evil. Yeah I know everyone here thinks he is this monster of a human being and he deserved to die. I now think given the situation he had to die, but is he really some evil monstorous human being, or a 17yr old student who either wanted to die, or made a huge mistake. I have felt suicidal in my life before, and I 've thought about doing very drastic things, but I never acted on them thank god. But maybe the pain for this young HUMAN being was too much and he went berserk. Does anyone remeber what it was like to be 17? It was very hard for me I'll tell you that.

But maybe he is not human, maybe he wasn't a person like the cop is. Maybe hes killed more cops with a bat that we dont know about. Maybe he was hitler reincarnated, and the cop did a service to us all. Now thats a story. But when it comes down to it a HUMAN being still lost his life. Plain and simple. And if you don't see that then I feel sorry for you.

Look Iam just going to say one thing since noone is reading this thread all the way through and automatically jumping on the I hate schism bandwagon. Then I will not check it anymore. So if you still want to continue to rip on a ghost then please send me more useless ATS points. I'm not egotistically whatsoever and I will admit when I was wrong. In my op and some of the others I was wrong. I jumped to a conclusion too fast. And thanks to those that have constructively helped me come to this conclusion. Too all others, I will not waste my time to continue to argue with someone who has not read my previous posts. I just want to say this, bats and violence and cops and medal detectors have no place in school, and in a society that requires these things to be in schools, we have all lost as a society. Soon schools will shut down in fear of their own children. Now thats a world I do not want to live in.








[edit on 17-4-2008 by schism85]

My opinion is that if a person is going to draw first blood with a bat on someone with a firearm they are either going for the kill or is just stupid. I believe it is case of self defense as many other here state.

Watch it turn out that this was actually a good officer based on his service record. Either way, service wise, it is still a bit cowardly. A bit like shooting someone in the back.

May be a gang hit?

Originally posted by schism85
.
Maybe this student was having a bad day, maybe he did make some poor decisions, but he did not have to pay the high price that he did, because the officer was incompetent or not properly trained. What do you guys think?

Wow, geez, he was having a bad day, so he decided to attack a cop with a bat. Now, everyone is suppose to get all weepy over him being shot?

Non lethal bullets? Great, so some guy comes shooting at the cop, he has to remember if he has his nonlethal rounds, or the lethal rounds?

Incompetent or not properly trained? Well, we can all Monday Morning Quarterback the cop, but I think he did what he had to do.

reply to post by Unit541


I know what kind of warped reporting the media does, and I really wonder what they are not telling us. Yes, I know there is an exception to every rule, but in my long history of interaction with police, judges, lawyers, and politicians, I have never met ONE that was a good honest decent person. Not one, including my own damn brother. The press says he was defending himself, and IF that is true, he was justified in killing. IF. And I seriously doubt we have heard NEARLY the whole story.

reply to post by Unit541


I know what kind of warped reporting the media does, and I really wonder what they are not telling us. Yes, I know there is an exception to every rule, but in my long history of interaction with police, judges, lawyers, and politicians, I have never met ONE that was a good honest decent person. Not one, including my own damn brother. The press says he was defending himself, and IF that is true, he was justified in killing. IF. And I seriously doubt we have heard NEARLY the whole story.

The cop was in a do or die situation.. Check out what happened to the cop in this video. I would have fired on the perp........

reply to post by schism85


Yes the cop have every right too shoot that kid. I just deleted what I wrote after reading your second post. I forgive ya...I am guilty of the same..

[edit on 17-4-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

Im going to copy and paste my response from the other thread, then im going to respond to schism. I have lived in fresno for many many years, here is my post.

Theres nothing fishy about it. Im sure if you lived in a town of 3/4 of a million, thats fresno and clovis combined, and knew the area that roosevelt high is in (i lived across the street from RHS 2yrs), you would understand why they have armed police there. That is in a bad side of town and is ran by gangs. Alot of the gang kids think they run the schools in fresno. I wouldnt doubt it was some sort of gang initiation.

As previous posters stated, if you attack a man that is carrying a gun with a baseball bat, you had better expect to get shot. The kid suckered him from behind and split his skull open, could have possibly killed him, and he paid the price for his stupidity. In his situation i would have done the same thing(except i dont carry autos, i carry revolvers) so my clip would not have fallen out on first attempt at reaching.

Just my .02 from a local fresno yocal.

Now to respond to schism

Look Iam just going to say one thing since noone is reading this thread all the way through and automatically jumping on the I hate schism bandwagon. Then I will not check it anymore. So if you still want to continue to rip on a ghost then please send me more useless ATS points. I'm not egotistically whatsoever and I will admit when I was wrong. In my op and some of the others I was wrong. I jumped to a conclusion too fast. And thanks to those that have constructively helped me come to this conclusion. Too all others, I will not waste my time to continue to argue with someone who has not read my previous posts. I just want to say this, bats and violence and cops and medal detectors have no place in school, and in a society that requires these things to be in schools, we have all lost as a society. Soon schools will shut down in fear of their own children. Now thats a world I do not want to live in.

I have read every post on this and the other thread so Im not gonna rip on a ghost, as you so eloquently put it. Why bail on a thread you started. You need to grow some thicker skin if you are gonna hang around ATS and put up threads. Everyone around here has opinions. Just because they dont agree with you is no need to run and hide. Just read right on past them and respond to whomever you desire.

Now, why is it the schools obligation to raise "YOUR" children. When the parents aren't raising their children correctly or at all to begin with. Some of the students going to those schools are actually there to learn something. So just because a child lives in a bad neighborhood, the school shouldn't try to provide a safe environment for them? Officers and metal detectors are there to protect the ones that DO want to learn from the ones that dont. The degenerates that have no discipline at home, are allowed to run the streets from 5yrs old on. They are the ones ruining it for the rest of the ones that want to learn. I do not fear the schools. I fear the parents that raise the hoodlums, gangsters and straight hellions that have turned a section of town in every good sized city into a freakin warzone.

I have a distrust for police. In this case, I am completely on the officer's side. He was attacked with a deadly weapon and the assailant continued to be aggressive even when the officer was down. He made the right decision. Had he not, it would have been a different headline on this thread. Something to the effect of "17 year old kid beats cop to death with bat."

One less lowlife polluting this earth. Multiply that by a few million and we're in business.

reply to post by Aaron_Justin


And along those same lines Aaron, would he have stopped at the officer. Would he have moved on to a teacher that had disciplined him recently, the principal maybe?

We will never know, thank goodness and i applaud the officer. He is dam lucky he wasn't one shotted by this kid. 6' 250lbs is a big boy no matter how you look at. A punch to the temple can kill a man. A bat or club or nightstick to the skull in many places can kill you. The side of the head is where most of them are and that is where the kid hit him.

This kid wanted to die and thats about it. We will never know why.
From the fresno bee article.

The suspect continued to advance toward Perry with the bat over his head, yelling profanities and telling the officer, "What are you going to do now?"

Dyer said Perry yelled for help, drew a backup firearm from an ankle holster and fired once. The suspect fell backward, Dyer said. While the student was on ground, he yelled. "Go ahead, kill me," Dyer said.

Dyer said Fresno police had had two prior contacts with Carrizales. In February 2005, he was found to be in possession of a butcher knife. Then, last Aug. 8, Carrizales' parents summoned police regarding their son. Dyer said he was precluded from discussing what prompted that contact.

[edit on 18-4-2008 by S1LV3R4D0]

Oh wow.. I can't believe people are defending the guy who tried to kill the cop. Get a life!! Everyone knows you don't hit cops with bats if you don't want shot to death!

This isn't one of those "Cops taze grandma for walking her puppy" threads. This is a cop who was attacked by a huge guy with a deadly weapon and he used his gun to save his life.

THIS IS WHY COPS HAVE GUNS!!!!

OP, you say you know people who've been hit with bats. Do you know anyone who was beaten down with one? Do you know how hard it is to actually "just shoot to incapacitate?" With a handgun it's difficult. With a backup gun that you can wear on your ankle it's probably darn near impossible.

The bottom line is, WHEN THE GUNS COME OUT, IT'S TIME TO AIM FOR CENTER MASS!!!!

Somebody else hoped the kid was shot between the eyes. I disagree. I hope he took one in the stomach and the other in a lung. Let him really feel the stupidity of his actions before he goes.

For the record, I have a 9mm and if some huge guy came at me with a bat, I'd start shooting and I wouldn't stop until the 16 round clip was empty.

reply to post by mattifikation

In my op and some of the others I was wrong. I jumped to a conclusion too fast. And thanks to those that have constructively helped me come to this conclusion.

Its Ok matti, The Op understands the error of his/her opening post.

For the record, I have a 9mm and if some huge guy came at me with a bat, I'd start shooting and I wouldn't stop until the 16 round clip was empty.

Sadly enough, you would probably be prosecuted for excessive force. Thats what the courts have become. The officer would probably be in deep trouble had he not been struck from behind ambush style. If he had a chance to confront the guy before the attack and didnt attempt to use his tazer before shooting him, then it would have been excessive force in somes eyes.

Well, how's the saying go? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6?

Im sorry, i should have kept typing up there on my last post. Im not saying Yay matti, empty the clip. Im saying why would you feel the need to use that much force. One or two rounds is more than sufficient to kill most. Shooting and killing a human being is a life changing event for anyone. Crazy psychopaths and whackjobs of the like not included.

Yes during the adrenaline rush of the moment its kill or be killed. But if you train regularly with your weapon(s) i would hope your training would kickin and do exactly what you trained for it to do. Mine has. Not go off on some blind rampage and empty a clip, especially in a schoolyard such as this attack was.

id like to add some further clarity. i just joined right now because of all this hooplah about the cop used excessive force. well im here to give background. i grew up in fresno all my life and the school this happened at, Roosevelt High School is one of the most dangerous schools in the city.

Why do you think the officer carried two guns? the school has a high population of immigrant mexican gang members, black drug dealers, skanks, skeezer's, an occasional smart kid, and alot of viatemese charlie's. it is a rough area and a rough school.

Now, also the cop was attacked from behind. the bat was broken at the end and had electrical tape wrapped around the bottom, so it was a lethal weapon in the likes of a club, and not really a bat. after attacking the officer. he was obviously dazed, and upon reaching for his weapon, the clip fell out. the kid then looked at the cop, yelling out what are you going to do now....while charging towards the fallen officer. thankfully he had a second weapon attached on his foot. at which point, he fired to save his life. he had a 2 inch gash on his head. to anyone who has ever had to have such a cut, its no joke, and he is lucky to be alive, and still in the hospital might i remind you.

once i saw the school, i was like go figure, its no surprise if you know the area. and i said to my self, thank god i went to clovis west and grew up in the clovis school district

reply to post by schism85


He was attacked with a baseball bat... Again the officer had every right in the world to shoot this kid, this isn't about pulling out a billy club and playing swords either. This is about a kid assaulting an officer with a deadly weapon and getting the full extent of punishment for it. A 17 year old with a bat might as well be a 26 year old with a bat and if that happened in a project somewhere you'd never hear about it and your'd careless. Great job by the officer, one less dip-sh*t to worry about.

As I look at it...as most here do. I applaud the the officer for his actions. Getting hit in the back of the head w/ a bat. Man, what effect does that have on your fine motor skills or reasoning and everything else. You know the guy is in trouble when he ejects the mag from his pistol while trying to switch the safety...He is in survival mode now and I agree...I would have shot the guy...As far as the kid having a bad day? When was the last time anyone that you know of had "a bad day" and decided to attack an armed person with a bat? The thought is laughable.

Just my opinion though

reply to post by schism85


After bare hands and bare knuckles, the wooden club was probably considered the first deadly weapon. A wooden baseball bat used in the manner of a physical attack on another person is certainly within the deadly weapon category. The cop followed his training and his actions were justified. Under the law, both natural and legal law, the kid got what he deserved.

The death was preventable by the kid, not by the cop. The kid should have known that an attack on a police officer with a deadly weapon is likely to draw an equally deadly response. That kid made a stupid move.