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Fresno Student Shot, Killed by Police Officer After Bat Attack

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posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:02 PM
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FRESNO, Calif. — A police officer shot and killed a 17-year-old high school student Wednesday after authorities said the teenager clubbed the officer with a baseball bat on the packed, urban campus.

The officer fired at the student shortly before noon, after the Roosevelt High School sophomore allegedly came from behind and struck the officer in the head with a crude wooden baseball bat, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer said.

The officer fell down dazed, and reached for the gun in his hip holster, but the clip fell out.

As the student came at him a second time, the officer grabbed a secondary weapon — a semiautomatic handgun he carried as backup — from his ankle holster and fired one or two rounds, Dyer said. The student reportedly died within a few minutes.


Now ok, I know this officer was attacked, but this killing of this student was senseless and preventable. Where was the officers mace? Where was his back up? Why didn't the officer shoot to disarm or incapacitate this student, instead of taking his life? I don't think enough cops are properly trained for this type of situation, and non-lethal bullets should be more widley used. I mean he could'nt even pull out his own gun without the clip falling out. That reeks of incompetence. This death WAS preventable. I hope that this officer can see that, and do something to ensure it does not happen again to someone else.

Maybe this student was having a bad day, maybe he did make some poor decisions, but he did not have to pay the high price that he did, because the officer was incompetent or not properly trained. What do you guys think?
Read the entire thread before posting!!!!!!!!


[edit on 17-4-2008 by schism85]



+9 more 
posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:08 PM
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Ok I really don't like cops that much but come on. How could he have shot just to disarm him? He was dazed! He was hit with a baseball bat! There should be no blame put on the cop for this one, that stupid kid deserved to be shot because he was attacking someone.

Wow I'm beginning to see it. People really do try to blame the cop no matter what the situation. Thanks for opening my eyes



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by theendisnear69
 


I will feel sorry for you when you are mistreated by the police. He could have shot him in the leg, why would this be so impossible? Maybe instead of killing him, it would have disarmed him. I have known people who have been hit in the head with a bat, none of them died, not one. Maybe his life was not in danger at all, and the cop was quick to FATALLY shoot him. He does not even remeber how man times he shot, this cop panicked. He obviously panicked and killed the kid. He did'nt black out after being hit, so he must have not been hit that hard or he would have been out. Go ahead and believe everything you read buddy and I'll still be here questioning authority, and not just taking their word for it.


CX

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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Sorry but i don't agree that the officer was in the wrong on this occasion.

That baseball bat could have quite easily killed the officer first strike. The next strike could have finished him off too.

The student was obviously intent on seriously harming the officer, so who is to say the student would'nt have gone for his gun too?

Harsh as it sounds, but if you attack anyone seriously enough and in a way that could cause death, expect it back when a person defends themselves.

As far as "why was'nt mace or other non-deadly weapons used" is concerned, i'd like to see anyone who has been smacked around the head with a bat, not want to do anything they can to prevent the next blow which could be lethal. You won't be thinking straight after a crack on the head like that if you are lucky enough to still be conscious.

In the past whilst on duty as an MP sorting out a bar fight, i had a solid gin bottled wrapped around my head, knocking me out for a few seconds. When i came to, the only thing that stopped me getting attacked again was the threat of the guy being shot. If he had'nt have stopped after that warning, i'd have shot him.

I was lucky, but not everyone has time to issue warnings.

At the end of the day, i know a lot of police are OTT with the use of force these days, but when you seriously injure a cop, you should expect to not just get a telling off.

Shame that a kid so young had to die this way, but a shame too that he had to do something so damn stupid!

CX.

[edit on 17/4/08 by CX]



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by schism85
 


Hey like I said before I really don't like cops either, I mean I have gotten maced at protests numerous times for doing nothing. And i will always question authority. But the cop was just defending himself. Really have you ever gotten hit with a baseball bat? I can tell you it hurts like hell and cracked a few of my ribs. And that was an accident. I could barely move. Now imagine the idiot that hit you with a bat is coming at you for another swing, I sure as hell would not let him get close enough to use mace on him, seeing as how the next hit could kill you!!!

It was self defense man. If he was allready dazed from one hit just imagine what the next hit was gonna do. It was either the cop or the idiot.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by CX
 


I agree with you to an extent. Maybe he did think that he was saving his life? But let me ask you this. when you got hit on the head with a bottle of gin, you blacked out for a few seconds right? But you were still in the frame of mind that you warned the guy before you would have shot him, and he stoped. What was so diffrent in this case? Iam not saying the cop was not trying to save his life, but he did not black out, and there was no warning. These questions and many more come to mind when I think of this story, it does not make it true, but I still am skeptical on what exactly happened. I know this attack on the cop was brutall, and damn right I would have shot him too to save my own life, anyone would, but was it preventable? Maybe.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by schism85
this killing of this student was senseless and preventable.

I agree completely. If the kid wouldn't have gone cave-man on the policeman he would still be alive. How intelligent is it to attack someone with a club when they're armed with a gun? Also, wasn't beating the officer down once enough? Continuing to beat someone that's down is low-class. That's hardly fair. It seems he didn't want a fair fight and got what he asked for.

Warning shots are probably not allowed. If a gun is fired it's to kill. I know in the miltary we had to sign papers saying we agreed to not fire warning shots or shoot to injure. Every bullet fired should be considered deadly force. Rightly so since you could die from a leg injury if an artery was hit.

A club to the back of the head can be just as deadly as a gun. Sounds like appropriate force was used. Sure it would have been nice if the officer tried pepper spray, but he didn't have that luxury. He was already beat down on the ground and the attacker was coming at him again.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by schism85

I know this attack on the cop was brutall, and damn right I would have shot him too to save my own life, anyone would, but was it preventable?


Your own words. You would have shot him too. But the cop's actions were indefensible?

Self-defense. Had the cop shot after one blow, I would possibly be in some agreement with you. But second attack? Nope, the kid has to accept the responsibility for his actions. Also, you did notice that the cop was hit from behind initially? If I were hit from behind, I doubt it would occur to me that a kid just did it. I would be thinking much worse.

I think it's sad that a kid had to die, but in some situations, there's nothing else you can do.

TheRedneck



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by theendisnear69
 


Sure I would have shot him before he swung again, but was he really going for the second blow? Right self defense I get it, but my question is was it preventable? Thats all, I understand that he was attacked, I would have shot him too, if I thought my life was in danger.

Still you have not answered the question as to why it was so impossible to shoot him in the leg at ground level. What is the definition of dazed? It doesnt mean brain dead, he could have shot him in the leg. All Im saying is it might have been prevented. Will I lose sleep over it? No probably not, but I still wonder about these cases sometimes.

I have been a target for police brutality at a young age in Illinois, and I know how cops can be. Maybe I'm biased, maybe you are right? Maybe I am just one of those guys that always blame the police no matter what, but it does not make me wrong, or right. But if I am one of those people, I can see I will be fighting a losing battle. Thank you for opening my eyes.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by schism85]

[edit on 17-4-2008 by schism85]


CX

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by dbates

Warning shots are probably not allowed. If a gun is fired it's to kill. I know in the miltary we had to sign papers saying we agreed to not fire warning shots or shoot to injure. Every bullet fired should be considered deadly force.


Exactly right.


I know the British forces are not trained to "shoot to maim", i certainly never was. Our rules of engagement stated that we could use our firearms if someone was carying out an act likely to endanger life.

Getting clubbed around the head can kill and has done many times before.

We were never trained to go for the legs and arms, always the head and main torso.

It always made me laugh when people moaned about the SAS having a "shoot to kill policy". All of us did!


You can bet your life that if police or the military started maiming using thier firearms, there would be something in there which would be against the victims human rights due to the suffering caused!


I'm sure that even as a police officer, you still have the basic law of the land that states that self defence may be used to defend oneself. He may have been a police officer, but he can still use the laws of the land.

CX.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by dbates
 


Right beating someone when he is already down is low-class. But the cop pulled his gun immediatly after being hit, understandable. It happens all the time, a cop is threatened, he pulls his gun. And by all means he should protect himself when dealing with the crap that a cop faces everyday. But maybe this student panicked as well when he saw the gun. Maybe he thought the cop was going to shoot him regardless, and he got scared also, and went to hit him again before the cop pulled out the second gun. Im begining to understand that this kid had to die regardless of what this cop could have done to prevent it. He pulled his gun as part of a procedure and instinct, the kid freaked out (I dont know what he was expecting the cop to do) and went in for another blow, and blam the kids dead. Regardless of what happened this was senseless, I dont think anyone here would disagree. I am just trying to put the pieces together in my own mind. This kid made a huge mistake, and I just can't make sense of it.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by schism85]



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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reply to post by schism85
 


I have very little tolerance for police brutality or exessive use of force. I've seen many posts on ATS that highlighted disgusting behavior by LEOs

That said, on the face of it, this sounds like a completely justified shooting. Hard to see how someone can argue that he should not have defended himself with whatever he had available. One solid hit with a baseball bat can kill. Sad event as all acts of senseless violence, but unless there's a lot more to the story, it was the student, not the police officer that perpetrated it.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 03:02 PM
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Read the article. The 250 lb student hit the officer in the head with a bat. The officer reached for his primary weapon, a pistol, and the clip fell out. The student came at him again with the bat and he used his secondary gun and fired one or two shots.

If you'd been hit in the head with a bat and the person was coming at you again, what would you do?

You could try and convince him that we should all just get along.
You could try to use your pepper spray.
You could allow him to wack you in the head again.
You could use your gun.

Of course, since you've already been hit in the head once with the bat, you may not be thinking as clearly as you would when sitting behing a keyboard.

When I read the article, I felt sorry for the officer but I thought he was justified in using his gun. I also feel sorry for the family of the dead 17 year old. What a sensless act.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by Wildbob77
 


Like I said in the post above, I would have pulled my gun. No doubt, and if he was coming at me again, I would have shot him. what I also said is after the officer got hit, he pulled out his gun, then maybe the kid freaked and thought he was going to get shot, and went in for the second hit to prevent the cop from shooting him. Like I said before I dont know what the kid thought the cop would do after he hit him, but when he saw the gun, maybe he thought the cop was going to shoot him no matter what, so he went to hit him again. I never said he was not justified for drawing his weapon. Like I said above, Im begining to see there was no other possible ending to this scenario. My heart goes out to the families, I do not mean to be harsh on anyone, and sorry if I have been.


CX

posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by schism85
Like I said above, Im begining to see there was no other possible ending to this scenario. My heart goes out to the families, I do not mean to be harsh on anyone, and sorry if I have been.


I would'nt worry about sounding harsh, at the end of the day you have an opinion too, whether thats the same or different than others.

This does'nt mean you were wrong either, maybe there could have been another possible ending to the incident. It just happens that on this occasion the officer did what he thought he had to do to protect himself.

The next officer in this situation may handle it different. So i definately would'nt beat yourself up about anything you've written.

The beauty of ATS, one of the last places you can voice a difference of opinion. For now.

CX.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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As far as the Fresno Police Chief is concerned, the student wanted to die and declared his death a case of suicide-by-cop.


Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer says investigators of the death of 17-year-old Jesus Carrizales strongly believe that "this was a case of suicide by cop." cbs5.com


As unfortunate as this case is, I think Junus Perry was right to defend himself by whatever means and degree necessary. The man was hit with a bat. Should he have waited to see if he would be struck again?



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by Alexi Humi
 

You know I never thought of that possibility. Suicide by cop, doesn't sound right. There are easier ways to go, but I guess it was quick and painless. Thank you for the post. Thanks to everyone else too for the posts, I certainly took alot in from this thread, as it will make me think twice before I rush to a descision. Thanks for not completely tearing me a new one guys.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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The kid brought a ball bat to a gun fight. Gun won. I don't have any problems with the cop defending himself or the outcome. Maybe, just maybe, some kids in that area may see what the outcome can be for stupidity.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:17 PM
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I'm one of the first to call out cops for unjustified excessive use of force, but given the information we have on this particular case, I have to agree that the officers actions were justified. A bat, especially in the hands of a 250lb man, is capable of killing just as quickly as a gun. In my opinion, the cop is lucky to be alive, and likely wouldn't be had he not reacted the way he did.

If it wasn't suicide by cop, it was Darwinism at work. If you don't want to get shot, don't sneak up on a person you know is carrying a gun, and hit them in the head with a bat.



posted on Apr, 17 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by schism85
 




Now ok, I know this officer was attacked, but this killing of this student was senseless and preventable. Where was the officers mace?


I cannot explain to you how angry this line makes me... infuriating..

The guy was HIT IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD.

The Student attacked him with the INTENT TO KILL ... you do NOT hit a guy in the back of the head with a wooden bat without the intent to murder.

The officer is then lying on the ground, his primary gun is no good, the kid is about to take another swing, probably at the officers head AGAIN .. and the officer was lucky enough to get a shot or two off before the stupid kid hit him.

The kid deserved to die.

I hope the officer shot him right between the eyes.

And I hope the kids that where probably watching learned a valuable lesson that day. don't resort to violence, because one time and it may be your last time. Good on the cop. Hope he gets a medal for ridding the world of 1 less ignorant Human.



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