Chemtrails Vs Contrails... There's a MASSIVE Difference!!! Check these out...

Originally posted by zorgon
The 'capital' mentioned in that statement is for the inventor etc NOT for us... there is no 'book deal' and unlike ATS we do not make millions off ads, etc... the Livingmoon is paid for entirely out of my pocket... John does do the occasional lecture... about one per year and the fee for that barely covers the expenses, however this has nothing to do with Pegasus as he was doing that long before we ever met...

Funny that I didn’t see a single free energy system linked on the front page, only a lot of links to authors of quite controversial information. John and his appearance dates and insults slung at ATS staff, and Beth with her books.
What is it that you are hoping that potential investors come across first on that sight, the free energy, or the authors?

Pardon me for being able to read between the lines…

Originally posted by zorgon
You know I think ATS should make it an absolute rule that ANYONE claiming to be a professional anything ought to post their credential... otherwise your word is as good as mine...

There are no credentials for being a Ramp Supervisor. You go through company training and spend years out there working up to those levels. So what would you have me post, my personal information on here, not going to happen for reasons that have nothing to do with the topic. I would be willing to send my information to the web owners, but that is as far as I am going to take that.

As a matter of fact, I sent the information on who I worked for to Springer back when he was going to O’Hare for his interview.

I have no problem with letting the staff here know who I worked for so they can do a background investigation of me, but I am not putting up personal information on the web as that is just asking for trouble.

Originally posted by zorgon
Ummm I have been in Vegas for nine years.... only saw this grid work twice so I doubt its 'every day'

Grids happen because jets fly on airways which cross each other’s paths.

Originally posted by zorgon
According to the German video report... those were German military planes in that incidence... not US

According to Essan it was later found out that it was Dutch military fighters which dropped the chaff during a training exercise. I know he has already answered that to you in another thread, but it certainly does not stop you from reposting it over and over in other threads, now does it.

Originally posted by zorgon
Kindly explain to me how many U2 spy planes filed "flight planes" Since when do covert operations file flight plans with any public agency?

Weedwacker is going to have to double check this answer for me as he is more up on ATC rules then I am, but I believe that a U2 flies above normal air corridors and is not subject to normal ATC rules.

Originally posted by defcon5
You ever hear of a little thing called the Vietnam War, and something called Agent Orange?

Oh yes... that was ONE time the Military sprayed chemicals in the air covering our own troups... and people like you justify it so you could get a better line of site by wiping out a forest...

Point is it was done... so that is Exhibit C

And the government is still paying the price on that escapade...
www.js.pentagon.mil...

The reason why the military has to be able to kill pests and clear foliage should be obvious to most people, but ill explain it for you. First off, they have to kill pests to keep disease down when they are in certain environments, such as jungles. Secondly, they need to be able to quickly defoliate thick underbrush to allow line of sight to their troops who have to fight people who might use that foliage as cover.

Well yes that certainly WAS the justification for Agent Orange... so are you telling us that they STILL have the same agenda today? Please link me to that data... as you say "The reason why the military has to be able to kill pests and clear foliage should be obvious to most people"

it certainly does not form a cloud and remain in the air.

Hmmm yes quite... then there must be something else in it huh?



[edit on 23-4-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by defcon5 I know he has already answered that to you in another thread, but it certainly does not stop you from reposting it over and over in other threads, now does it.

No, that is quite true... in the same way I see your pretty face in both threads started by someone who didn't search first

Dutch you say? or do you mean Deutsche? The video was not speaking Dutch... but they were speaking Deutsche

Sorry I missed this bit:

Originally posted by zorgon

Most military aircraft use JP-8 jet fuel which is a blend of commercial Jet Aviation Fuel -1 (or Jet A-1) with three extra additives. The additives are used to control ice formation, control biogrowth (molds and slimes), and inhibit corrosion.

Funny Defcon5 made no mention of these additives

wonder what else he forgot to mention

Actually I have brought this up many times before, though maybe not in this thread.

Originally posted by defcon5

So go track down a gallon or so, and have it tested. If you want to save the time, money, and effort, though: Jet A

JET A

Jet A is a similar kerosine type of fuel, produced to an ASTM specification and normally only available in the U.S.A. It has the same flash point as Jet A-1 but a higher freeze point maximum (-40°C). It is supplied against the ASTM D1655 (Jet A) specification.

AVIATION FUEL ADDITIVES

Aviation fuel additives are compounds added to the fuel in very small quantities, usually measurable only in parts per million, to provide special or improved qualities. The quantity to be added and approval for its use in various grades of fuel is strictly controlled by the appropriate specifications.

A few additives in common use are as follows:

1. Anti-knock additives reduce the tendency of gasoline to detonate. Tetra-ethyl lead (TEL) is the only approved anti-knock additive for aviation use and has been used in motor and aviation gasolines since the early 1930s.

2. Anti-oxidants prevent the formation of gum deposits on fuel system components caused by oxidation of the fuel in storage and also inhibit the formation of peroxide compounds in certain jet fuels.

3. Static dissipator additives reduce the hazardous effects of static electricity generated by movement of fuel through modern high flow-rate fuel transfer systems. Static dissipator additives do not reduce the need for `bonding' to ensure electrical continuity between metal components (e.g. aircraft and fuelling equipment) nor do they influence hazards from lightning strikes.

4. Corrosion inhibitors protect ferrous metals in fuel handling systems, such as pipelines and fuel storage tanks, from corrosion. Some corrosion inhibitors also improve the lubricating properties (lubricity) of certain jet fuels.

5. Fuel System Icing Inhibitors (Anti-icing additives) reduce the freezing point of water precipitated from jet fuels due to cooling at high altitudes and prevent the formation of ice crystals which restrict the flow of fuel to the engine. This type of additive does not affect the freezing point of the fuel itself. Anti-icing additives can also provide some protection against microbiological growth in jet fuel.

6. Metal de-activators suppress the catalytic effect which some metals, particularly copper, have on fuel oxidation.

7. Biocide additives are sometimes used to combat microbiological growths in jet fuel, often by direct addition to aircraft tanks; as indicated above some anti-icing additives appear to possess biocidal properties.

8. Thermal Stability Improver additives are sometimes used in military JP-8 fuel, to produce a grade referred to as JP-8+100, to inhibit deposit formation in the high temperature areas of the aircraft fuel system.

POWER BOOSTING FLUIDS

It used to be commonplace for large piston engines to require special fluids to increase their take-off power. Similar injection systems are also incorporated in some turbo-jet and turbo-prop engines. The power increase is achieved by cooling the air consumed, to raise its density and thereby increase the weight of air available for combustion. This effect can be obtained by using water alone but it is usual to inject a mixture of methanol and water to produce a greater degree of evaporative cooling and also to provide additional fuel energy.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by defcon5 I know he has already answered that to you in another thread, but it certainly does not stop you from reposting it over and over in other threads, now does it.

No, that is quite true... in the same way I see your pretty face in both threads started by someone who didn't search first

Dutch you say? or do you mean Deutsche? The video was not speaking Dutch... but they were speaking Deutsche

The German news report makes no mention whatsoever of chemtrails. The communications on which the story is based reveal that the chaff which produced anomalous reading on meteorological radar was dropped by Dutch aircraft.

Source

According to a study of radar records of the Air Force, we found that at the end of March 2006, in the night of 22 On 23.03.2006 about 1 hour before the occurrence of the phenomenon in Dutch airspace an aerial combat exercise took place. The records show that very small amounts of chaff were issued, but which demonstrably after about 1 hour and 10 minutes had disbanded.

However the video has been deliberately mistranslated - I wonder why?

Who is misleading who?


(btw re-reading the correct account, I'm not entirely sure whether they're saying it was Dutch of German aircraft responsible for the chaff - but that hardly matters.)

[edit on 23-4-2008 by Essan]

Originally posted by zorgon
Oh yes... that was ONE time the Military sprayed chemicals in the air covering our own troups... and people like you justify it so you could get a better line of site by wiping out a forest...

Point is it was done... so that is Exhibit C

This was done in a combat zone during a war, it hardly has any bearing on what we see in the skies today. Besides this, I have linked pictures of Agent Orange spraying above, and it obviously looks nothing at all like these supposed chemtrails.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well yes that certainly WAS the justification for Agent Orange... so are you telling us that they STILL have the same agenda today?

No, but the military has to remain ready to fight a battle in an entirely different environment at short notice, so they do maintain that type of equipment.

Originally posted by zorgon
Hmmm yes quite... then there must be something else in it huh?

Or it is something totally different, maybe the same thing that clouds are made of….. Say water vapor….

Originally posted by zorgon
No, that is quite true... in the same way I see your pretty face in both threads started by someone who didn't search first

I got both threads off the recent posts page, I did not go searching for them.

Originally posted by zorgon
Dutch you say? or do you mean Deutsche? The video was not speaking Dutch... but they were speaking Deutsche

I don’t know, and don’t care to go digging through the thread again to fix a possible grammatical mistake. If you want to report it here then feel free to do so, it might be the only battle you win today…

Originally posted by defcon5If you want to report it here then feel free to do so, it might be the only battle you win today…

Well I looked at the thread where Essan answered and his 'claim' is the video was 'mistranslated' and linked to a skeptic site Funny thing is, the translation is just fine... I do not need help understanding Deutsche





[edit on 23-4-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
Well I looked at the thread where Essan answered and his 'claim' is the video was 'mistranslated' and linked to a skeptic site

Funny thing is, the translation is just fine... I do not need help understanding Deutsche

Considering that earlier you tried to tell me that a CNN video about Morgellons Disease was about Chemtrails, when the word Chemtrail was never even in the CNN portion of the Video, I think I’ll trust Essans Video translation skills…

Originally posted by zorgon
Funny thing is, the translation is just fine... I do not need help understanding Deutsche

Perhaps then you can tell me why the English subtitles (which actually only translate a part of what is said) include the word chemtrail - which does not occur anywhere in the original German. But omits to translate the word düppel which crops up on several occasions?

(and I've included dictionary links there so you can't try and mislead people by falsely claiming that Germans use the word düppel to mean chemtrail - not that I think you ever would )

[edit on 23-4-2008 by Essan]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by zorgon
Well I looked at the thread where Essan answered and his 'claim' is the video was 'mistranslated' and linked to a skeptic site

Funny thing is, the translation is just fine... I do not need help understanding Deutsche

Considering that earlier you tried to tell me that a CNN video about Morgellons Disease was about Chemtrails, when the word Chemtrail was never even in the CNN portion of the Video, I think I’ll trust Essans Video translation skills…

Regardless of if CNN's video discussed Morgellons and Chemtrails in the same story, they are linked.

Self assembling silicone nanostructures. Sounds like "alien life" to me!!!

Have you ever seen Morgellons? Go down to San Antonio, it is more common there.

The question is: what is it supposed to do?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Self assembling silicone nanostructures. Sounds like "alien life" to me!!!

Please show me one credible researcher who is claiming this. So far the credible researchers are leaning toward this being a fungal infection that is picked up by people with a low immune system which is unable to fight off a fungus that is harmless to most people. The presence of plant related cellulose has been documented in these patients. Also, as was reported in that video, there seems to be a connection between Morgellons and those who work the earth, such as farmers/ranchers. This fits with your observation that many folk in Texas, a well known farming/ranching area, have the disease. …

Morgellons
Dr. Stricker, along with Dr. Citovsky, MRF board member from the State University of New York at Stony Brook and an expert on plant pathogens, reported in January, 2007, that Morgellons skin fibers appear to contain cellulose.

Morgellons Org
To date, various clinicians have seen...and occasionally identified...certain common dermato-pathogens OR organisms not found on humans but on animals or on inert material. This suggests the possibility that the skin immunity of Morgellons is seriously deficient, allowing numerous animal or plant parasites to live on human skin.

Morgellons Research Org
These loops and traps creations are typical characteristics of nematicidal fungi.

I CAN go on with these type of quotes all day long, because they are the leading theory as to the TRUE origins of Morgellons disease. You’re looking in the opposite direction of its true source. You need to look down, not up…

[edit on 4/23/2008 by defcon5]

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
You see Defcon your talking about commercial flights.
Not the Government flights that are producing the chemtrails.
Commercial flights and Government flights are two different things.
Clear enough?

Fine, so you think that the US maintains enough aircraft and ground personnel to cover the entire world with “chemtrails” on a daily basis? You think that other countries have no problem with allowing US military flights to be doing this in their airspace? How about the fact, which Weedwacker brought up, that military flights that are operating outside of restricted airspace have to file a flight plane same as commercial flights, and operate in accordance with ATC rules? Do you really think that there would not be a single Air Traffic controller who would come forward with this information? You think that the FAA would have no problem with aircraft intentionally creating a constant IFR environment that poses a potential air visibility hazard?

You think those questions through and see if you can answer them, then let me know.


[edit on 4/23/2008 by defcon5]

"PORTLAND, Maine... A senior air traffic control manager responsible for commercial aircraft over the northeastern United States has confirmed in a second exclusive interview with radio reporter S.T. Brendt that large formations of U.S. Air Force tanker aircraft are conducting ongoing operations over the USA and Canada.

The sky-obscuring chemicals laid down in criss-cross patterns by the big jets have been observed by thousands of eyewitnesses across North America over the past two years. When asked the purpose of these missions, the FAA official said he was told "weather modification" after a "higher civil authority" ordered him to divert incoming trans-Atlantic airliners around military formations flying over 37,000 feet on March 12, 20 and 21, 2001."

Source

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


"self-assembling amino acids"....sounds like alien life to me!

Oops....I meant to say Earth life.

Gee, if it could happen here?.........Seems a strong case for life everywhere in the Galaxy (well, not everywhere....lots of radiation in the center).

Now, we only have to calculate the time factor. 65,000,000 Earth years, or so, ago....Man had not yet evolved. Reptiles ruled the planet. Could intelligence have evolved out of this mix? Who knows....

All the while, other planetary systems, far, far away, are developing, all at different rates....but this is best sent to a new thread.....

A contrail is produced because of the hot engine exhaust interacting with the cold air. Period.

It makes no sense to 'spray' a chemical from over 30,000 feet, it is illogical because it has no targeting ability. Upper level winds are constantly changing, they cannot be predicted.

"Chemtrails" is a load of nonsense, and should be quashed at every opportunity, because it is bad 'science'.

WW

reply to post by Alien Abduct


AA....you posted a 'source' (of dubious nature) from 2001!?!

Don't you see? This crap is made up, re-packaged to look legitimate, and then presented as 'evidence' so they can SELL BOOKS!!!

It is nonsense.

I could write a 'news' article to convince you that rainbows come out of a Unicorn's butt....and Unicorns fly around, making rainbows....and in two years' time, I'll write a book to confirm that Unicorns fly around and spread rainbows, because the 'foundation' has already been laid, on the Internet. So, with the 'foundation' already laid, my book would be a huge success!

See the similarities?

Originally posted by OpusMarkII
I'm curious does any one else believe that Chem Trail activity was much more intense back in 2004-2005.

Yes, I noticed more activity with these trails during that time. I have nothing else to add to this thread.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Well if you don't believe it then why don't you track the source and prove me wrong.

reply to post by Alien Abduct


AA, a 'senior ATC official' near Portland, Maine?

Is this person a contoller at Boston ARTCC? Or does he/she work at the TRACON?

Any ideas what those acronyms mean? NO?

You cite an unnamed 'source', and expect us to believe it???

Really? Truly, you have to do better than that.

WW

"........Johnson responded to the DoT and CAA asking that, if their assertions were correct and the chemtrails were just contrails, it must mean that the picture of the "grid" he took in 2005 and the 42 aircraft he recorded leaving persistent trails over a period of 212 hours on Feb 4th 2007 must be ordinary air traffic. He therefore asked if they could please supply flight data for these days? "As I have videoed the actual aircraft from 4th of Feb and have the files time-stamped on a disk, I can prove they flew over the place where I was. I have received no response to this request so far."

"One important consideration, for example is that most commercial aircraft are tracked by the FAA within the U.S. Other countries may have similar tracking programs and in turn make that tracking data available to the public via tracking programs such as 'FlightAware' and 'Flight Explorer' in near real time.
If the aircraft that you have observed do not show up on these tracking programs then you must assume that they are exempt from being tracked. Only military type aircraft, and some Government aircraft are exempt from tracking. That should cause many questions to be asked as it is against FAA regulations as well as military flight regulations for any large body jet aircraft to conduct operations, manoeuvres, or training exercises over populated civilian areas without notification by the Secretary of Defence ninety days prior to any such operation - and only then with the express permission of the Governor(s) of the affected state(s), unless National Security is at issue."

Source

Here is that report

-Ailen

I, for one, am not buying that story. I say we contact this person and see if we can find out who this FAA official was:

About S.T. Brendt: Tiffany Brendt has been a broadcast journalist and on-air personality for the past eight years with Maine and New Hampshire radio stations
WMWV, WCYY AND WLKZ. Working primarily in the political arena, Ms. Brendt has interviewed candidates for the House of Representatives - most recently Martha Fuller Clark - as well as Presidential candidates Al Gore and Bill Bradley. Her interviews air on the award winning "Drive Time News Hour" on WMWV.

Because the person she worked on the story with is this person:

About William Thomas: William Thomas has been investigating "chemtrails" since breaking this story for the Environment News Service in January, 1998. He is the author of Bringing The War Home, Scorched Earth, and Probing The Chemtrails Conundrum. His documentary videos include the award-winning "Eco War", and "Chemtrails: Mystery Lines In The Sky" Specializing in health and environment, Thomas's award-winning writing has appeared in more than 50 publications in eight countries. His editorial commentaries have appeared in The Globe and Mail, The Toronto Star, The Vancouver Sun and Times-Colonist newspapers - as well as Earth
Island Journal and Ecodecision magazines. William Thomas has also appeared on CBC radio and television, CNN and New Zealand national television.

A Chemtrail author…
I would not put it past some folks like this to come up with false witnesses. I do not trust anyone that is researching a supposed conspiracy and making money off their research, it tends to be a conflict of interest in the impartiality department IHMO. I find the same to hold true with the 911 truth movement types.

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
If the aircraft that you have observed do not show up on these tracking programs then you must assume that they are exempt from being tracked.

No it simply means that they do not have to file a flight plan. Lots of flights fly without a flight plan, which are not military. We certainly never filed flight plans to fly VFR.

Please do me a favor and go take a flying lesson.