Chemtrails Vs Contrails... There's a MASSIVE Difference!!! Check these out...

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

This debate is about the Government spraying not commercial which is what we have been trying to say all along.

Which raises the question of why most alleged chemtrails appear to be produced by commercial aircraft and, more importantly, why there is no difference whatsoever between trails produced by commercial and military aircraft - unless someone can show otherwise?

reply to post by Essan


jeez! Has no one, who lives in the US or Canada, bothered to check the website I mentioned??!!??

Not one, person, yet has said "Hey! Checked it out, works good, now I can see the flights over my house!"

Of course, once we dispel the stupid idea that Commercial Passenger jets are 'spraying'.....then we're forced to imagine the Military is doing it.....but same illogic crops up....it does NO GOOD to 'spray' from 30,000 feet!!!

Besides, aren't the Military busy elsewhere?!?!?!?!

Crop dusters spray at about five feet. Know why?

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


I checked out that website. Sorry!

And I thought it was pretty cool. However, hardly any commercial traffic flies over me. LOL! And when I checked, only saw 3 planes way up here at the top of the globe, in the air at that time! haha

[edit on 25-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by weedwhacker


The military is not doing it. It makes no sense. I see these trails often here....on a military base. Why on earth would they be spraying their own people? Yep, there goes that pilot spraying his family below. I can promise all the "important" people on this base are not walking around wearing chem masks...unless its ORI but they still arent walking around outside in them.

wooooops! double post

[edit on 25-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Thanks, gel!!

There's more to the site, click on 'resources', then put in KANC to pull up all the Jeppeson pages for Anchorage...the 10-9, airport diagram, the 10-1 DEP procedures, the 10-2 STARs.....the various IAPs, the 11-1 thru 13-1...

(11 denotes precision approach, the - number is just a way to sort the various approaches, theey are usually numbered according to the runway, or according to common usage. Frequency of use. 12 is for GPS approaches. 13 is for VOR approaches. 16 is for NDB approaches....NDB not being very usefull any more...) GPS is the way of the future!!

WW

Originally posted by Alien Abduct
Look they contradict on another.

So, which is it? do you have to file flight plans or not? LMFAO!

Originally posted by zorgon
AA asked you a direct question about an OBVIOUS contradiction... please answer it... do they or do they not need to file a flight plan in ALL situations... Its really a simple request, is it not? Do not try to duck out by this rhetoric..

Its not a contradiction, because you are misunderstanding what was said. First off, I was a ramp person, not a pilot, and I only had basic VFR flight training, so WW is certainly the person who is correct between the two of us if there is a contradiction. I have no idea how the military fly, beyond the basics I learned in VFR training. What I know is that when they are training they fly in restricted air space. You of course have to learn about restricted air space when you learn VFR, because you have to be able to recognize it on a map to steer clear of it…

Now what I was referring to was other flights that fly VFR, for example: student pilots, air ambulance/rescue, news agencies, and traffic spotters.

Visual flight rules (VFR) are a set of aviation regulations under which a pilot may operate an aircraft in weather conditions sufficient to allow the pilot, by visual reference to the environment outside the cockpit, to control the aircraft's attitude, navigate, and maintain safe separation from obstacles such as terrain, buildings, and other aircraft.
The essential collision safety principle guiding the VFR pilot is "see and avoid." Pilots flying under VFR assume responsibility for their separation from all other aircraft and are generally not assigned routes or altitudes by air traffic control. Near busier airports, and while operating within certain types of airspace classifications, VFR aircraft in Class B & Class C airspace are required to have a transponder. Governing agencies establish specific requirements for VFR flight, consisting of minimum visibility, distance from clouds, and altitude to ensure that aircraft operating under VFR can be seen from a far enough distance to ensure safety.

Instrument flight rules (IFR) are a set of regulations and procedures for flying aircraft whereby navigation and obstacle clearance is maintained with reference to aircraft instruments only, while separation from other aircraft is provided by Air Traffic Control. In layman's terms, a pilot who is rated for IFR can keep a plane in controlled flight solely on the data provided by his instruments, even if that pilot cannot see anything (useful) out the cockpit windows; indeed, one of the benefits of these regulations are the ability to navigate fly through clouds, which is otherwise not allowed.
IFR is an alternative to visual flight rules (VFR), where the pilot is ultimately responsible for navigation, obstacle clearance and traffic separation using the see-and-avoid concept. The vast majority of commercial traffic (any flight for hire) and all scheduled air carriers operate exclusively under IFR. Commercial aircraft providing sight seeing flights, aerial photography, or lift services for parachute jumping usually operate under VFR.

Flight plans are documents filed by pilots with the local Civil Aviation Authority (e.g. FAA in the USA) prior to departure. They generally include basic information such as departure and arrival points, estimated time en route, alternate airports in case of bad weather, type of flight (whether instrument flight rules or visual flight rules), pilot's name and number of people on board. In most countries, flight plans are required for flights under IFR. Under VFR, they are optional unless crossing national borders, however they are highly recommended, especially when flying over inhospitable areas, such as water, as they provide a way of alerting rescuers if the flight is overdue.

In general, flight planners are expected to avoid areas called Special Use Airspace (SUA) when planning a flight. In the United States, there are several types of SUA, including Restricted, Warning, Prohibited, Alert, and Military Operations Area (MOA). Examples of Special Use Airspace include a region around the White House in Washington, D.C., and the country of Cuba. Government and military aircraft may have different requirements for particular SUA areas, or may be able to acquire special clearances to traverse through these areas.

Hopefully that helps clarify what I meant…

[edit on 4/25/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


Yup! No legal requirement to file a flight plan, VFR.

I had the hankerin' a few years ago, to fly a light airplane again, after many years away.

I call it the $500 hamburger event.

You see, you don't just walk into an FBO and rent an airplane, like you rent a car from Hertz. They check your license, your medical.....now, due to insurance requirements, you take a 'written' test (basically reading from the 'FOH'....the Flight Operating Handbook...think of it as the owner's manual from your car, but more detailed)....oh, yeah, sometimes it's called the 'FOM' (substitute the word 'manual' for 'handbook'....GA keeps changing)

ANYWAY, the whole time I'm filling out this 'test' the CFI (see, he gets paid to sit there with you) just keeps asking my about flying, 'cause he just got hired with a commuter airline and starts in two weeks...but I have to pay his 'ground school' rate, then we go fly, I have to pay his rate, and of course, the hourly rate on the airplane (Cessna 182 in this case). He's eager, and young....and I do everything....steep turns, slow flight, all the stalls....AND need three landings, order to be current again in a single-engine airplane. So he's jabbering, and I'm just filling out the 'test', and talking to him, answering his questions about the Airline business....

Finally, I'm 'checked out' to fly their airplane....I went from an airport outside DC to see an old friend of my Dad's near Hershey, PA. Where we had the hamburger at the airport restaurant. Hence, the $500 hamburger story.

ps....took a friend along, made him (not a pilot) 'help' me navigate so I'd stay clear of the Class B airspace...(I had two VORs and a GPS on the airplane, but I pretended to let him 'help' me....)

On the way back, it was getting dark....I just called Approach and they gave me a squawk and I went direct back.....right over the top of Dulles....no Flight Plan needed, just something called 'Flight Following'.

I could have filed IFR, but no need....friendly ATC is happy to help!!!

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker

Yeah, you’ll find the same kind of thing happens in diving. Its nothing more then an excuse to bill you for an hour with one of their instructors. I never had to do that with flying because I only ever flew out of KVDF, but I have heard other guys complain about it.

reply to post by defcon5


Yeah, but diving is off-topic!!

Kidding....I need to brush-up my diving skills, seriously.

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


Not really, because the best way to avoid breathing Chemtrail stuff and getting Megellons , would be to breath only out of SCUBA gear as its filtered at the fill station. I can get about two hours of a tank at 1Bar, so they should buy about 12 tanks per day.

I think its time to invest in the dive shop industry…

reply to post by defcon5


LOL!! I'm going to invent a BCD they can wear...a small tank of Helium to inflate the vest!! Light on your feet, what?!?

Talk about chemtrails, if the BCD springs a leak....well, we'll have to inhale it and talk funny, lest we allow it to pollute the atmosphere!!

You invest in SCUBA gear, I'll start a clothing trend to incorporate it! We'll be rich!!! BuHaHaHa!!!!

WW

WW I see that Zorgon kind of already helped you with linking, but I find the interface to be cumbersome, and type in a text editor. So there is actually an easier way to do this stuff. Just remember each of these combinations:

i=italicized
b=Bold
ex=external quote
url=web address
img=image
quote=internal quote
/=is stop doing whatever you were doing.

So if you want to do something it is going start with one of these above things, and end with a backslash followed by the same thing. Each one has to be inside a set of brackets, such as this: [ ], but in this example I will do them with curly que’s like these [ ] so you can see them. Simply replace the [‘s with [‘s and it will work.

So if I want to make something italicized I type:
[i]something[/i]
and it comes out like this

For bold:
[b]This is bold[/b]
and you get this

If I want to make an external quote then do this:
[ex]external quote[/ex]

and you get this

For an internal quote:
[quote] Defcon said [/quote]

Defcon said

To make a link:
www.yahoo.com...
www.yahoo.com...

To make a link with a heading:
This is Yahoo
This is Yahoo

To do an image:



Then you can do all kinds of cool combinations of them too after you get used to it. I hope that helps some.

[edit on 4/25/2008 by defcon5]

Oh dear gawd! Are y’all being facetious about having us live in a bubble? There is nothing to fear or get paranoid about inhaling ‘chemtrails’ into our lungs. This is our atmosphere we are talking about there is no way to replace a breath of fresh, crispy clean air with something from a pressurized tank! No tight fitted mask or special clothing could prevent us from experiencing freedom to the fullest and under the warm sun! No!



[edit on 2008-4-25 by pikypiky]

I came across this site where pilots chat about stuff, and I though that maybe some of our believers here would enjoy hearing other aviation professionals opinions of this topic considering that those of us here are all disinfo agents and such…

NE_Pilot
So, maybe I have been living under a rock all this time, but I have only recently heard of this things called chemtrails. From what I have read, it seems that there is a group of people who believe that a contrail should last no more than 5 minutes, and if it does then it is a chemtrail. They seem to believe that the government is spraying chemicals, from some unknown reason.

I saw some pictures of the supposed chemtrails, and they looked like contrails. I personnaly think it is all crap, and just some guys poor understanding of meteorology, and have tried to explain that to some of these people, but they won't hear it, because contrails, by some unknown law, can only last a short time.

Have you guys heard about this stuff, and what are your opinions??

played a golf with one of those tree-hugger types last year who spent the first 5 holes complaining about how the airlines are shortening our life spans. the next 13 holes he decided to complain about how contrails ruin his blue sky and how the EWR traffic makes him suffer day in and day out...

... meanwhile, i spent 18 holes kickin' his ass, taking his money, and demolishing his pride

NE_Pilot

Well, from what it seems, they don't think all contrails are chemtrails, just the ones that last more than 5 minutes.

I can imagine seeing these people sitting in lawn chairs, with tin foil hats on, and a timer, timing each contrail, then when it exccedes 5 minutes they start running and yelling about the government spraying them with chemicals. I kinda feel bad for them.

I thought I was the only one who had to deal with these people.

Your pilot license should be revoked just for posting this. What sort of chemicals do you put in YOUR fuel tank?

ROFLMAO

Great stuff here:
www.airlinepilotforums.com...

Maybe you’ll all start to see exactly how patient folks like WW have been through all of this…

reply to post by pikypiky


piky....you're not getting it yet!

You are breathing more bad stuff from the exhaust pipes of the thousands of cars and buses that surround you every day, than from some imagined 'menace' in the sky!!!

Ever heard of 'smog'? It's been around for decades....heck, I grew up in Los Angeles, we had it in the 1960s!!!! Even the Beverly Hillbillys (Hillbillies?) did a show about smog!!! In the 1960s.

No need to 'spray from 35,000 feet, when we're doing it already down here at two feet!!!

WW

edit to add....please read my quote from Carl Sagan, in my signature. Contemplate.....

[edit on 4/25/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by weedwhacker


Okay then: I’ll be ordering a nice scuba tank along with the softest face mask for added comfort because, frankly, my friend, those manufacturer of smog-producing machines and/or chemtrail-spewing equipments are not letting up on the pollution of our air.

The mockery of the following English saying to ‘Kill two birds with one stone’ doesn’t pass up with me when the potential for dual action harm of any living organism could be done both at ground level and in higher altitudes.

I read the quote from your signature and contemplated. I don’t understand, really, (because it’s late and I’m getting tired); other than what do we really know about the truth behind anything at all that does not involve science and technology.



[edit on 2008-4-25 by pikypiky]

reply to post by pikypiky


This is why I like ATS....the multi-national, multi-lingual nature of it.

Piky, all SCUBA masks are soft....else they wouldn't fit your face.

When you buy a mask, be sure to inhale through your nose, with the mask on our face, if you want to assure a good seal.

When you SCUBA, you have to learn to breathe through your mouth only.

IF chemtrails are real, then buy some breathing equipment. Of course, a SCUBA tank weighs dozens of pounds and is not practical.

OR, go live in the country, away from cities. Good luck!!

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hm… Not necessarily…
This is what I use, works great if you’re a new diver. it’s a bit pricey, but it provides protection from contaminated water (Chemwake ) and if you get knocked unconscious for some reason you still can breath. Also allows you to use underwater communications units …
Ocean Reef Space, Best mask for your Chemtrail needs!

[edit on 4/26/2008 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


Very cool! The mask and octopus integrated into one piece?

So off topic....we should start a thread about SCUBA!!!

WW