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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:11 PM by Odium
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 Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by Odium
So if they exercise self defense- that is aggression by your standard?
You seem to conveniently omit the circumstances in each instance where they've responded to an event. 
Self-defence, means they have to attack first.
I've seen that sort of logic from chavs in court.
"He looked at me as though he was going to attack me, so I stabbed him."
"They moved their tanks to our boreder, so we bombed them."
What's the difference?
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:12 PM by BlueRaja
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Originally posted by raresf
"If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more
Israel" - Benjamin Netanyahu.
That's the truth, but the anti Israel cheerleaders will never admit it, as it doesn't fit in with their agenda.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:15 PM by LLoyd45
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reply to post by raresf
Did Natanyahu believe they were that hated? I can't imagine why? Why have they been driven out of practically every country in the World aside
from the US?
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:19 PM by BlueRaja
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Originally posted by Odium
Self-defence, means they have to attack first.
I've seen that sort of logic from chavs in court.
"He looked at me as though he was going to attack me, so I stabbed him."
"They moved their tanks to our boreder, so we bombed them."
What's the difference?
If they didn't attack first, they wouldn't get a second chance, so the answer to your question is yes. It's not a matter of using some kind of
logic. When large formations of armor are offensively postured, with logistical support necessary for an invasion(and too large to just be an
exercise), one would have to be pretty obtuse to see any other intent behind it. Especially when one looks at the historical context of the Arabs
continually attacking Israel since its inception. If they'd had no history of war, it might could be argued differently. The Israelis had to take
all threats seriously. It doesn't take long for armor to roll from one side of the country to the other.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:22 PM by BlueRaja
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So I guess that justifies the hatred of the jewish people then, because hey- everybody's doing it. It wasn't a matter of believing they were hated.
It was a matter of knowing. They've been hated since the time of Abraham when Isaac got the blessing rather than Ishmael, and the Arabs have been
resentful ever since.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:24 PM by Dark Crystalline
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Originally posted by BlueRaja
That's the truth, but the anti Israel cheerleaders will never admit it, as it doesn't fit in with their agenda.
You create your enemies. Live with it guys.
Here is a little forecast. The U.S. is going to stop the support of that little terror country. The people already have enough about the Jews, so they
will be banished from here sooner or later. I know few country, where the citizens are attacking some Jewish property with Molotov cocktails, because
they believe they're the ruler of that country and treating the natives like animals (It's in the European Union. And it's self-defense of the
native citizens, because not the natives have started.). Then Iran, Syria or one of the other noble country is going to push those guys also back into
the red sea... then happy end. Everyone is live happily even after... without Israel and some mega-lo-maniac asshole.
OR TRY TO LIVE WITH THE REST OF WORLD AND LIVE IN PEACE! You're not chosen one, nor superior beings and you never was. Accept that. And we may be
friends.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:25 PM by centurion1211
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Another thread for the anti-Israel crowd. These people are almost as rabid as the anti-Bush people here. There is no solution (carefully chosen word
- as in "final solution"), for these folks short of the derstruction of the state of Israel.
And the only time Israel has attacked pre-emptively was because they had overwhelming evidence that they were about to be attacked from all sides.
Bodrul, check your facts before posting more anti-Israel vitriol.
6 Day War
 Six-Day War
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Six-Day War
(Arab-Israeli conflict)
The Six-Day War (Arabic: حرب الأيام الستة, Ḥarb al‑Ayyam as‑Sitta or more commonly Arabic: حرب 1967, Ḥarb 1967; Hebrew:
מלחמת ששת הימים, Milhemet Sheshet Ha‑Yamim), also known as the 1967 Arab-Israeli War, the Third Arab-Israeli War, Six Days' War,
an‑Naksah (The Setback), or the June War, was fought between Israel and Arab neighbors Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. The nations of Iraq, Saudi Arabia,
Kuwait and Algeria also contributed troops and arms to the Arab forces.
In May 1967, Egypt expelled the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) from the Sinai Peninsula, which had been stationed there since 1957 (following
the 1956 Sinai invasion to allow for a free Suez Canal), to provide a peace-keeping buffer zone. In reaction to Israeli-Syrian tensions, Egypt amassed
1000 tanks and 100,000 soldiers on the border, closed the Straits of Tiran to all ships flying Israeli flags or carrying strategic materials, and
called for unified Arab action against Israel.[4] In response, on June 5, 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive attack[5] against Egypt's airforce.
Jordan, which had signed a mutual defence treaty with Egypt on May 30, then attacked western Jerusalem and Netanya.[6][7][8] At the war's end, Israel
had gained control of the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, eastern Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. The results of the war affect the
geopolitics of the region to this day.
Anyone can clearly see that the Israel's attack was in response to provacative moves by the arab nations surrounding it.
[edit on 4/7/2008 by centurion1211]
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:27 PM by Odium
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reply to post by BlueRaja
There is no way to proove they had any intention to actually attack.
Your arguement uses the same logic as the man who stabs someone for looking at him, the rapist who attacks a woman for what she is wearing. You create
a false illuision that Israel had no other choice - but it had many.
It easily could have got support from International Organizations and other countries, to openly state attacking them would result in the other
Nation's helping Israel.
Instead it decided to attack first.
It decided to also attack a US ship and blame it on the Egyptian's to attempt to get support. (CAn you explain that one please?)
They are terrorists and you can try and argue otherwise, but anyone who bothers to think about things clearly knows they are.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:27 PM by LLoyd45
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Originally posted by BlueRaja
So I guess that justifies the hatred of the jewish people then, because hey- everybody's doing it. It wasn't a matter of believing they were hated.
It was a matter of knowing. They've been hated since the time of Abraham when Isaac got the blessing rather than Ishmael, and the Arabs have been
resentful ever since. You seem to know a great deal about the Jews, so you tell me why so many nations (not just the Arabs)throughout history
have driven them out of their lands?
I'm really curious why you believe this was? 
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:27 PM by BlueRaja
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reply to post by Dark Crystalline
Exactly what kind of Peace are you talking about? Dhimmitude? Israel is willing to compromise. The Arabs aren't. Who's holding up the peace
process? I stand by Netanyahu's statement. Without Arab violence, you won't see Israeli retaliation.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:29 PM by Dark Crystalline
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reply to post by centurion1211
Wikipedia, the greatest source of disinformation, where everyone may edit what he wants. Congratulations. You have shown the best evidences of the
world, that they have right.
You guys are paranoid and mega-lo-maniac. It's in your genes (AVPR1, which is also affecting your behavior.). No offense, but that's going to cause
your doom, even if no one is turning against you. You're destined to be destroy by yourself. Maybe we should just sit back, eat some popcorn and
relax, because not even God can save you from your own foolishness.
BlueRaja. Israel is never willed to make peace. They're continuously violating everything what they're promising. And of course, they're always
lieing. You should check their news and not the U.S. or European news. They're not lieing to each other, just to us. Oh. And check their comments.
Almost every second is about killing others. Peace loving nations. Yeah. Sure.
[edit on 7-4-2008 by Dark Crystalline]
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:30 PM by Odium
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reply to post by centurion1211
Well done for quoting wikipedia.
Again it adds nothing to the debate in anyway shape or form, aside from showing Israel didn't take the alternative actions but instead decided to use
violence.
Thank you for displaying my point that they use violence whenever they can.:-)
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:34 PM by manticore
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I believe Israel has the right to defend itself. However, doesn't Iran have the same right?
If my neighbor around the block has weapons to defend his house and family, what right does that neighbor have to tell me I can't have the same
weapon to defend my family?
Isn't it a bit hypocritical? And please, don't tell me the Ayatollahs are trigger happy. They may be extremists but they are not dumb to know if
they even try, their country will become a glass parking lot.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:34 PM by BlueRaja
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reply to post by Odium
Using your "logic" the evidence needed, would be Arab armies rolling through Israel, before Israel would be justified in taking action. It's not
at all similar to being at a pub and a guy looking at you funny, so you hit him first. It's more like an armed assailant pointing a gun at you, and
you take them out before they pull the trigger.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:34 PM by centurion1211
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Actually, I'm more curious as to why you think this was? I mean do you have any reasons for that happening beyond prejudice (religious?) and
anti-semitism? And what are your reasons for seeming to be so anti-Jewish?
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:35 PM by MegaCurious
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reply to post by ergoli
Sounds like that John Titor stuff, where he says that Israel will nuke the middle east, or something like that. Seems like the only news these days
is this John Titor stuff...
I mean, if they do it after this "John Titor" dude told them all this ahead of time, that just shows folks that its all made up...
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:38 PM by BlueRaja
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Originally posted by LLoyd45
You seem to know a great deal about the Jews, so you tell me why so many nations (not just the Arabs)throughout history have driven them out of their
lands?
I'm really curious why you believe this was?
There are a few reasons- bigotry, ignorance, racism, jealousy, resentment, suspicion, blame shifting, etc.. It's no different than having an
irrational hatred of any other group of people.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:40 PM by Odium
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reply to post by BlueRaja
Egypt has the right to place it's own Military wherever it likes it its country.
To make it even easier for you.
Person A and B dislike one another, they live next door to one another. Person A buys a gun and stands in his garden which over-looks Person B's
garden. Person B then kills Person A.
A was stood with a weapon, in a position he could of course cause B death. But A wasn't doing anything wrong, he had the full legal right to do
that.
Furthermore, Israel could easily have got support from the USA in a matter of hours. Furthermore if Egypt has attacked, Syria would not have had any
legal right to get involved they only did because of Israel attacking Egypt.
P.S: Why aren't you explainign Israel's attack on a US boat?
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:41 PM by BlueRaja
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reply to post by Dark Crystalline
So are you saying that the information in that wikipedia quote isn't factually correct, or are you just generalizing? You didn't address the
factual claims, only the source.
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reply posted on 7-4-2008 @ 01:41 PM by mybigunit
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All of you guys are making this more complicated than it is. There is a peace found after a war. This war needs to happen. The US needs to stay out
of it because it is not our war. Isreal vs whoever they have qualms with (Iran or Palestine) Just get it over with. World and UN stay out of it let
them fight and when its over then we can have peace over there. But as long as the world keeps stepping in and not letting these guys finish this
fight there will always be issues there. You cant force peace on people who dont want it.
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