Jet engine sim for testing 9/11 planes

reply to post by ULTIMA1


In case you missed it, I have been doing research and analysis and attempting to do it in an impartial way because I have no agenda to defend or political views on the matter.

I have a source closely associated with Boeing (not wanting any involvement in any conspiracy talk BTW) who tells me the 757-200 main gear wheels were specifically manufactured for that model - they had 8 slots and a lot of other defining features that are all evident in the wheel pictured at the Pentagon. The '10 slot' confusion is caused by the smaller nose wheels which have 10 bolt holes (but no slots) and it's as simple as that. The only other Boeing with a wheel that looks at all similar is the 757-300. If you consider this to be incorrect then simply show the planes you believe use those identical (in every respect) wheels so I can check it out (Airbus perhaps?). Bear in mind that no manufacturer is going to use a heavier than necessary component because every kg saved in components equates to an extra kg of payload and profit.

I'll take your refusal to challenge my calcs on the distributed blast as either reluctant agreement or denial.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
I have a source closely associated with Boeing (not wanting any involvement in any conspiracy talk BTW) who tells me the 757-200 main gear wheels were specifically manufactured for that model - they had 8 slots and a lot of other defining features that are all evident in the wheel pictured at the Pentagon.

If you would do impartial research to find the truth instead of trying to support the official story you would see that other planes use the same wheel.

Maybe you should talk to your source about the Airbus A320 family of planes. They also use Dunlop or Goodrich wheels.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

If you would do impartial research to find the truth instead of trying to support the official story you would see that other planes use the same wheel.

Maybe you should talk to your source about the Airbus A320 family of planes. They also use Dunlop or Goodrich wheels.

[edit on 20-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

If I read this other forum right, these are supposed to be the nose wheels of an A320 that somehow landed with them turned 90 degrees (perpendicular to the runway). JetBlue Airways Flight 292 on September 21, 2005 by an Airbus A320-232.

www.gruntdoc.com...

From whatever's left after that malfunction in the picture above, do they match anything found from 9/11?

Can anyone find a good shot of the main landing gear wheels for an A320?

[edit on 20-6-2008 by HLR53K]

Originally posted by HLR53K
If I read this other forum right, these are supposed to be the nose wheels of an A320 that somehow landed with them turned 90 degrees (perpendicular to the runway).

Well for 1 we are not talking about the nose wheels we are talking about the main wheels.

Maybe you should pull up a few photos of an Airbus A319 or 320 and look at the main wheels, oh and count the slots in the wheels.



[edit on 20-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


That's what I'm trying to do. Most of the pictures of the A319 and A320 with the gears down are either just landing or taking off and the shadows under the fuselage make it difficult to get a good look at the mains to count the bolt holes.

Originally posted by HLR53K
reply to post by ULTIMA1

 

That's what I'm trying to do. Most of the pictures of the A319 and A320 with the gears down are either just landing or taking off and the shadows under the fuselage make it difficult to get a good look at the mains to count the bolt holes.

Let me seee what i can find.

www.luftfahrt.net...

www.luftfahrt.net...

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Let me seee what i can find.

www.luftfahrt.net...

www.luftfahrt.net...

Where there 10 holes or 9 bolt holes on the wheels found for 9/11?

Originally posted by HLR53K
Where there 10 holes or 9 bolt holes on the wheels found for 9/11?

Please look at the photo of Flight 77, the main wheel has the 10 slots.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Please look at the photo of Flight 77, the main wheel has the 10 slots.

I zoomed into the pictures you provided and while they weren't the clearest things in the world zoomed in to a pixelated level, I only counted 9 bolt holes.

I assumed that each of the white "dots" around the axle was a bolt. Can you confirm that?

Originally posted by HLR53K
I zoomed into the pictures you provided and while they weren't the clearest things in the world zoomed in to a pixelated level, I only counted 9 bolt holes.

Did you compare the wheels from the photos i posted to the photo of flight 77 prior to 9/11 ?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Did you compare the wheels from the photos i posted to the photo of flight 77 prior to 9/11 ?

Clear pictures of Flight 77's wheels are somewhat hard to find, so I found a decent shot of Flight 77 and did the same zoom.

If I'm counting right, there appear to be 8 "slots", as you called them, instead of the bolts on the Airbus. Again, this is on a zoomed in picture of Flight 77. Unless you have a clearer one?

Originally posted by HLR53K
If I'm counting right, there appear to be 8 "slots", as you called them, instead of the bolts on the Airbus. Again, this is on a zoomed in picture of Flight 77. Unless you have a clearer one?

www.pentagonresearch.com...

KEY NOTES: There were actually two versions of this rim on the 757-200. One with 10 slots and one with 8. The hub assembly is slightly different between the two. Airlines are not obligated to use the same rim and gear manufacturer on a particular aircraft. The following photo is a close-up of N644AA's landing gear taken in August of 2001. You can see that it had the 8 slot configuration.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Did you compare the wheels from the photos i posted to the photo of flight 77 prior to 9/11 ?

I did and they are somewhat similar but definitely not the same, having 9 slots. The only pic of the actual N644AA I've seen shows wheels with 8 cutouts.



757-200 main gear:



Part of main gear recovered at the Pentagon:



I greatly doubt that an Airbus (MTOW 77000kg) would use the exact same wheels as a 757-200 (MTOW 116000kg).

Airbus A319:



Airbus A320:



All of which of course has nothing at all to do with the subject of jet blast and turbulence as the landing gear on AA77 was not lowered at the time it crossed the road.

Still no evaluation of my estimates of the geometry of the blast effect felt by the vehicles?

Originally posted by Pilgrum
All of which of course has nothing at all to do with the subject of jet blast and turbulence as the landing gear on AA77 was not lowered at the time it crossed the road.

Oh so now you want to change the subject since you failed again to post any evidence to support the official story.

Well see your wrong again about the landing gear being lowered becasue 1 of the military witnesses (that you believers love to quote and believe in so much) that was very close to the Pentagon stated the landing gear was lowered.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Oh so now you want to change the subject since you failed again to post any evidence to support the official story.

I'm not trying to change the subject at all but you seem reluctant to deal with the topic of jet blast and turbulence any further, and more content with arguing about wheels for some reason.

I'd prefer to talk about the geometry of the jetblast as it would at least be on topic.

Are you trying to suggest that those Airbus wheels are identical to the 757 wheel?

Please... You must have something better than that to suggest other planes use the identical wheel.

Well see your wrong again about the landing gear being lowered becasue 1 of the military witnesses (that you believers love to quote and believe in so much) that was very close to the Pentagon stated the landing gear was lowered.

You mean Noel Sepulveda who suffered a temporary blackout and a concussion as a result of the explosion as the plane struck the building?

He's the only witness who imagined the landing gear was lowered and every other witness (over a dozen of them) who made specific mention of the landing gear said it wasn't lowered, including military people and at least 2 aviators (Tim Timmerman and Terry Morin). The DFDR also indicates the gear was up.

For the record, I'm not a 'believer' in the derogatory sense you present. I'll believe in what can be proven, whatever it is.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
You mean Noel Sepulveda who suffered a temporary blackout and a concussion as a result of the explosion as the plane struck the building?

Oh so now the witnesses at the Pentagon that you believers like to quote as being a good source are not so reliable?

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Have you abandoned your original topic because it failed to prove anything related to the 9/11 planes - the Pentagon and AA77 in particular?

If you believe it proves anything just say what it is so your audience can comment on the methodology you used or am I simply wasting my time asking?

Originally posted by Pilgrum
If you believe it proves anything just say what it is so your audience can comment on the methodology you used or am I simply wasting my time asking?

My OP has facts and evidence and has NOT been proven wrong with facts and evidence. I have posted plenty of informaton to support the OP.

Still waiting for any actual evidence that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by ULTIMA1]

reply to post by ULTIMA1


Your OP was a link to a small jet engine simulator applet and all it proved is that such engines produce heat and a strong exhaust blast which I hope didn't require any proof in the first place for the majority of people viewing the post.

We've drifted all over the place including trying to show that a totally different wheel on an Airbus is the same as the wheels found at the Pentagon crash site which is just plain obviously incorrect.

Just one question: do you think the turbulence felt by witnesses in their cars was too little, too much or about right for the circumstances?

It must be one of those 3 options and if you can answer that we can move forward to analyse the geometry to see if your assumption holds any credence or perhaps that's what you're trying to avoid by deflecting off on different topics.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
We've drifted all over the place including trying to show that a totally different wheel on an Airbus is the same as the wheels found at the Pentagon crash site which is just plain obviously incorrect.

I was showing that there are other planes that use the same wheel as the 757.

Just one question: do you think the turbulence felt by witnesses in their cars was too little, too much or about right for the circumstances?

Thats a good question since most witnesses at the Pentagon do not even talk about turbulence. Also when i first brought up turbulence years ago most beleivers would not even admit to turbulence at the pentagon untill i had to bring up facts and evidence.