The Reason It Really Doesn't Matter if God Exists...

Can you all not see that you are all lost? You all have this common belief that GOD is out there and were are down here and you must loose this belief. Just get rid of it as if it were covered in poo. God is everything every where ( despite what ancient religions teach). We dont ever need god, god needs us, hence the reason he created us. He needs us so that he wont be so lonely. I personally believe that satan will even someday make it into heaven or even who's to say that he is not already there. What if satan had a change of heart and said "God, I'm sorry please forgive me". The point I'm tring to make is that we all have this common belief that even satan cant change and make it in to heaven and he is here to make our lives miserable, well i say ef that you are at fault for everthing that has happened to you i dont care how good or bad, everything!!!!!!

let the dead bury the dead you have better things to worry about so i will show you the light for there is not a man alive who does not deserve to see it for if he would only search for it

Your signature is appropriate, I would like to comment on it. Searching implies looking for something that could be missing. The role of a spiritual teacher (such as myself) is to lead others to new information or new light. Jah does not zap it into you but he works logically and with teachers.

Often others will be used to tell what it is that; Jah and Jesus wants mankind to know, if they will only listen. How do things get invented? The same works for spiritual thought, it has to come from somewhere. So some may look lost to you, but are actually on a different road, and it is one that you do not recognize.

Thank you kindly, as it is a make up of many quotes including my own. I practice atonement (at-one-ment) with God.

I agree it doesn't matter if God exists or not.

It's quite simple really...
There's no such thing as free will unless reality is an illusion.

Either (1) we're just biological machines created by a higher intelligence, or (2) we form the reality around us, thereby making us God.

Originally posted by Kruel
I agree it doesn't matter if God exists or not.

It's quite simple really...
There's no such thing as free will unless reality is an illusion.

Either (1) we're just biological machines created by a higher intelligence, or (2) we form the reality around us, thereby making us God.

or (3) a higher intelligence made us, we have free will, but we are pedictable

or (4) we are all strands of the same spegetti monster

or (5) a man walks into a bar.....

[edit on 7-4-2008 by miriam0566]

Fear is the primary cause of sin and the opposite of fear is faith and the primary effect is love......all fear is is the absence of faith just as darkness is the absence of light. The truth looks funny when you see it at first but when you truly examine it you'll begin to laugh at it and see how fun it really can be!!!!

reply to post by the basset hound


"Fear knocked at the door, faith went to answer it, and no one was there!"

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


To me, your argument in the OP does not really work.
Jews existed for hundreds of years without the idea that they were going to be raised from the dead and given a reward for living a life according to God's law.
They obyed God because they felt it was right to do and that it would be good for future generations to follow the dictates of God.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by EagleTalonZ

 

To me, your argument in the OP does not really work.
Jews existed for hundreds of years without the idea that they were going to be raised from the dead and given a reward for living a life according to God's law.
They obyed God because they felt it was right to do and that it would be good for future generations to follow the dictates of God.

well, thats not entirely true is it.... they we waiting for salvation through the messiah, they just didn´t know how that salvation would pan out.

Well, Miriam pretty much saved me the trouble of having to respond. They were in fact, believing, hoping, and waiting for their Messiah. They still had that promise of salvation to attain. So nothing changes.

My argument is simple:

God is supposedly loving. So if you don't believe in Him, will He still allow you to go to hell? And if He is as just, and cannot break His own word, will you ever be truly good enough to get in?

According to Eph. 2:8 says, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

So it is not merely based on works. So being good enough won't get you in anyways. The bible says in fact, that you are saved because of WHO you know... Jesus.

So in this thread, it would come to be that if you believe in God, and claim to know Jesus, you would hereby be awarded eternal life. Ahhh... but NOT true!

Rev. 3:16 says, "So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth."

And Matthew 7:22 says, "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

So knowing Jesus isn't enough.

Complicated I know... but not really.

It doesn't matter if He exists is merely a way of saying that you should live your life free of the mindset that you have to be governed by the ideals of religion. If you don't believe in Him, yet He does exist... I would have to believe He is loving enough that He will still let you pass. If He is so loving, could He truly allow His beloved children to burn?

And if He doesn't exist... then you have lost nothing anyway. Be a good person. You don't have to break laws just because there is no God. You live and you die.

The bondage of religion is as Gov. Ventura put it, "Organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people who need strength in numbers. It tells people to go out and stick their noses in other people's business."

We need to move on beyond such oppression and judgmental doctrines.

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ


We need to move on beyond such oppression and judgmental doctrines.

love youre god with your whole mind body and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself is oppresion?

reply to post by miriam0566



Those are good and basic concepts for humanity. Be kind to others. Forgive. Try to live in peace. But we don't need religion to teach us these things. They should be taught by our parents to us, and down the line. It's a basic moral instruction.

The oppression I am talking about is all the hate over things that are perhaps not right according to the bible. I don't find homosexuality to be in the least be appropriate, but I don't think they're wrong. And though I completely hate abortion, I don't think the mother needs to be verbally stoned. And when people want to believe in something else, I don't think they should be told, "believe in Jesus or burn in hell". These are the oppressive actions I'm referring to.

If you only pull out true and noble concepts, the bible doesn't seem so bad. But then again, that is a lot of the problem. But the bible doesn't come in parts. It is only taught as a whole. You take the good with the bad.

It's misleading, incorrect, inconclusive, judgmental, contradictory, hypocritical, and down right deceitful. And religion is holding our world back from being great. Look at all the divisions among men because "our religion is true, yours is a lie" mentalities.

How many men and women will give their lives trying to prove that their religion is right and someone else's is wrong? It's ok to die for what you believe in, but not to oppress others because they have a different point of view.

reply to post by EagleTalonZ


so what your saying is its our world, not god. god has no right to set rules for us. we should know whats right and wrong.

how ironic is it that this was the same arguement in the garden of eden?

I am intruiged by the sin that is unforgivable:

Blaspheme the Holy Ghost. That is unforgivable. So, even if you repented and said sorry, you would still be unforgiven. What if you blasphemed the Holy Ghost and didn't know that you had or didn't mean to?

I am just a little unclear on that one.

reply to post by miriam0566



This tends to come off point about the OP I made. That regardless, it won't matter. But since I love intelligent conversations, this is still fun for me.

I don't think this can be truly compared to the original argument. What I'm saying is that men have developed a "code of ethics" to live by. We know that hurting others is wrong, and helping and love is right. If you aren't harming anyone, I say do what you want. But if your actions cause others pain, you probably shouldn't.

I think we are in fact, our own rulers. We make our own decisions and should not be governed by a being who has the right to say, "I am so loving, I have made a place for you. But should you choose not to listen to me and only me, you will 'be allowed' to burn forever" How is that love? And how is that benevolent? It sounds like a dictatorship if anything. It basically says you can only live in the confines of a tight box of rules. Don't try to step out.

When I was a Christian, I felt completely free. I lived on cloud 9 most of the time. Nothing could upset me because my soul was safe with Jesus. But when it came down to it, there were rules, and more rules. Some say you can't cuss, some say you can. Some say you shouldn't sleep with a girl before marriage, while others interpret the bible to say it doesn't matter. And some even go as far as to say you shouldn't be fat, cuz fat is not perfect, and imperfection is what? You guessed it... SIN!

I don't believe in Him. I believe in us. In our abilities to choose. In our abilities to live, or die. No one else should have control over our ideas, and our lives. After all... isn't that the true concept of "free will"?

reply to post by Thurisaz



You bring up a good argument. But that is also like the mark of the beast. once you get it, you can't go back. You're done.

Thanks for bringing up valid points of question.

oh and the burn in hell topic.

when people die, there soul departs leaving an empty vessel. what do people do at funerals? They cremate or bury the deceased. why? cos it is not needed anymore.

Now, it is interesting that when you consider 'from dust you were created and dust you will return'. When we die, our physical body decomposes. so, I don't think that is punishment per say, I do however think that it is the natural cycle of things. Now, did Adam and Eve know anything about death prior to the fall? They went from spiritual existance in a spiritual body to becoming skin/sin thus being physical, living and dead cells etc. Nothing is immune from the cycle of life, but I believe in a spirit state we are not in the cycle of life.

so that is what I think hell is about. your body is destroyed and the soul gets another go at living without the same body. maybe after many goes, you can be resurrected?

In Revelations, the part where the false prophet, etc are thrown into the fire alive. That is a horrible thought and not quite sure how to logically process that.

But that is also like the mark of the beast. once you get it, you can't go back. You're done.

Oh I am not confident with that. I think that isn't from a decision of God, I feel it will be a consequence of getting the mark. Many suggest it is a chip device and the more I see of technology, I am wary. Perhaps it will keep people slaves? Or alter the persons DNA so that they can never die. I just read in another thread where a person spoke of forced evolution and that man would have to at some stage merge with some facets of technology. We see much of this in the medical world as it is, pacemakers for eg. I am not suggesting this is a bad thing, but I mention it to illustrate the potential.

I think the chip will be able to alter the DNA so that it is irreversable. The Matrix comes to mind here.

I mean how many people are already relying on freezing their body so that when technology finds a cure, they can be brought back to life. Vanilla Sky comes to mind here. lol

The cloning issue is really coming to the fore. We are already eating cloned meat and no one has a problem with it.

So, these are just my thoughts, sorry to ramble on, but I do think the mark of the beast is something that will alter the state of the recipient so that it cannot be reversed.

cheers




[edit on 9-4-2008 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by EagleTalonZ
reply to post by miriam0566

 

This tends to come off point about the OP I made. That regardless, it won't matter. But since I love intelligent conversations, this is still fun for me.

I don't think this can be truly compared to the original argument. What I'm saying is that men have developed a "code of ethics" to live by. We know that hurting others is wrong, and helping and love is right. If you aren't harming anyone, I say do what you want. But if your actions cause others pain, you probably shouldn't.

I think we are in fact, our own rulers. We make our own decisions and should not be governed by a being who has the right to say, "I am so loving, I have made a place for you. But should you choose not to listen to me and only me, you will 'be allowed' to burn forever" How is that love? And how is that benevolent? It sounds like a dictatorship if anything. It basically says you can only live in the confines of a tight box of rules. Don't try to step out.

When I was a Christian, I felt completely free. I lived on cloud 9 most of the time. Nothing could upset me because my soul was safe with Jesus. But when it came down to it, there were rules, and more rules. Some say you can't cuss, some say you can. Some say you shouldn't sleep with a girl before marriage, while others interpret the bible to say it doesn't matter. And some even go as far as to say you shouldn't be fat, cuz fat is not perfect, and imperfection is what? You guessed it... SIN!

I don't believe in Him. I believe in us. In our abilities to choose. In our abilities to live, or die. No one else should have control over our ideas, and our lives. After all... isn't that the true concept of "free will"?

but that is the exact reason for the rebellion. adam and eve said the same thing basically. they wanted thier eyes to be opened knowing right and wrong (instead of god telling them what right or wrong is). apparently for them, not eating from the tree was appereantly a tox box of rules for them. they wanted independance from god, so he gave it to them.

keep in mind, god never told them they would burn in hell, he said they would return to the dust. BIG difference

this is my thoery on that. again, just a theory

god makes man. man requires food to live, man also require spiritual food to live also (there are a few references to this in the bible.

man says, i want to do things my way, separate from you. god says fine, be on your way. problem is the connection from which we recieve spiritual food is severed. spiritually we starve to death which also kills us in a literal way.

my theory is that maybe god ISN´t saying, serve me or ill kill you. maybe hes saying serve me because without me you wont survive.

this a theory, no formal evidence to back it up

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I am intruiged by the sin that is unforgivable:

Blaspheme the Holy Ghost. That is unforgivable. So, even if you repented and said sorry, you would still be unforgiven. What if you blasphemed the Holy Ghost and didn't know that you had or didn't mean to?

I am just a little unclear on that one.

i can´t remember the scripture at the moment, ill look it up for you if you like but it says basically that there is no repentance when someone sins unforgivably

satan will not be forgiven because he will never repent. something like that

Originally posted by Thurisaz
oh and the burn in hell topic.

when people die, there soul departs leaving an empty vessel. what do people do at funerals? They cremate or bury the deceased. why? cos it is not needed anymore.

Now, it is interesting that when you consider 'from dust you were created and dust you will return'. When we die, our physical body decomposes. so, I don't think that is punishment per say, I do however think that it is the natural cycle of things. Now, did Adam and Eve know anything about death prior to the fall? They went from spiritual existance in a spiritual body to becoming skin/sin thus being physical, living and dead cells etc. Nothing is immune from the cycle of life, but I believe in a spirit state we are not in the cycle of life.

gen 2:[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

he wasn´t given a soul

eccl 9:[5] For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

[10] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

consider too the question of why would god say they would die for disobediance if they were going to die anyway?

its because they weren´t, death didn´t come into the picture before the sin