Gore's Message to Climate Change deniers

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


A petition is facts now... My god, how credible!

Wow this is going to save me a hell of a lot of time on future essays at university, think of my thesis!

"I think that X is Y and it is proven to be true, because some people with no provable qualifications signed petition Z!"

Are you serious?

Let's just take a look at the strict criteria for acceptance into that petition shall we?



So, seeing the entry form, what is stopping me adding my name to it despite not being a scientist? Absolutely. Nothing.

I'm tempted to do it in fact, just to watch it show up so I can ponder how such a ridiculous attempt at discrediting climate change is still running on the net. What is stopping me putting my name down as a PHD when I've finished my (non-scientific) degree, with my qualification, but then simply stating I have experience within my course in environmental science? That's actually not a lie, but somehow I doubt you believe this makes me as credible as these 'scientists' are to you.

This is so ridiculous.

It would be extremely easy to find 19,000 signatures for anything on the internet, it's a small number by population standards and since this petition offers no sort of checking for these 'scientists' other than their own testimony, every single one of them could be a fake name by someone with an interest in denying climate change.

Don't believe that 19,000 is a small number? Lets see what other ridiculous petitions recieved more than that... Care of PetitionOnline.com!

Petition: Save Jehrico on CBS! - 127933 Total Signatures.
www.petitiononline.com...

Petition: Bring back shows that aired during the 1990's on Nickelodeon Network - 34806 Total Signatures.
www.petitiononline.com...

Petition: Immediate and unconditional deletion of “Arabian Gulf” from Google Earth - 70964 Total Signatures.
www.petitiononline.com...

Petition: For DVD's of 7th Heaven to be Released - 21533 Total Signatures.
www.petitiononline.com...

-------------------------

The list goes on and on and on. I'll say that it is certainly easier to get signatures for a purely digital petition, but even if you cut things like Save Jehrico's petition down by a huge margain it'd still outweigh this global warming one.

Your argument is based on very little evidence and so far you've shown all of it to be dubious in nature.

As I said, you simply flat out refuse to accept credible evidence. I don't see the point in making well thought out, well substantiated posts when you're in denial of the facts.

Oh and as for the plant CO2 issue, that's already debunked and if you'd done any reading on that would be extremely obvious, but I think it's clear you haven't - or the reading you have done has been from sources such as the above petitions. I'm not going to serve you up links on a platter because you'll just ignore them anyway.

I don't see myself replying to much else in this thread, or certainly not posts by ProfEmeritus since apparently logic and scientific credibility have been thrown out and replaced with a ridiculously ignorant belief in personal opinions.

reply to post by Duality


Annnnnnd once more I must be forced to remind you that you are believing AMERICAN politicians and AMERICANNews agencies. Remember now, these were the same entities that CREATED the Iraq War. These are the same goonies taking orders from Bush & Dick Inc. to now create a new IRANIAN war.


Once more for old time sake, YOU ARE BELIEVING THE MASS MEDIA!

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Gorman91]

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Gorman91]

What is actually so wrong with believing the MSM? I don't see much difference from getting information from the MSM or alternative smaller sources. Who says that alternative (smaller) sources are the holy grail and that they don't have their own agenda too? We can make up our own minds what to believe or not by then. To totally rule out first hand that all information from MSM is a lie and propaganda, well, that will be like closing up yourself for a certain part of the facts.

Mods, beg thy forgiveness for my cocky attitude to come.m I've had a long day, sorry in advance.

Originally posted by Duality

Your argument is based on very little evidence and so far you've shown all of it to be dubious in nature.

As I said, you simply flat out refuse to accept credible evidence. I don't see the point in making well thought out, well substantiated posts when you're in denial of the facts.

You simply refuse to accept maybe, JUST MAYBE, smart people are wrong. After all, they use to say trans fats and margarita was healthy, now they shoot you if you're holding trans fats.

Let's see, smart people often jump on something as fact, look at it more, relaize their wrong, go through a bunch of # fest arguments, and eventually come up with "fact"... ONLY to be proven as wrong by the next guy. Like with Einstein. He proved a bunch of folks wrong, and now today a bunch of folks are proving him wrong with some things.

Oh and as for the plant CO2 issue, that's already debunked and if you'd done any reading on that would be extremely obvious, but I think it's clear you haven't - or the reading you have done has been from sources such as the above petitions. I'm not going to serve you up links on a platter because you'll just ignore them anyway.

Wait a sec, the Physics LAW of thermodynamics states CLEARLY that heat flow is from hot to cold. So how is it physically possible for Hot CO2 to remain in the upper atmosphere, bordering cold space, and not fall down to the plants.

By all means, I thought the fact Earth only has .03% CO2 proved it falls down and is obsorbed.

You know, what with Mars having 90% and yet still being freezing,... I'm just saying. (distance form Sun not big deal because that percentage of CO2, according to Gore, should make Mars an inferno)

I don't see myself replying to much else in this thread, or certainly not posts by ProfEmeritus since apparently logic and scientific credibility have been thrown out and replaced with a ridiculously ignorant belief in personal opinions.

The unwashed Masses control the Internet. And what with all of us rejecting Gore and his bull, YOU LOSE!



Kay, thanx

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
What is actually so wrong with believing the MSM? I don't see much difference from getting information from the MSM or alternative smaller sources. Who says that alternative (smaller) sources are the holy grail and that they don't have their own agenda too? We can make up our own minds what to believe or not by then. To totally rule out first hand that all information from MSM is a lie and propaganda, well, that will be like closing up yourself for a certain part of the facts.

Msn, or nbc, is owned by GE. A company riddled with Environment problems.

Hmm, I wonder why they'd want to look like the crusaders of planet Earth?

reply to post by Duality


There's some work to be done, don't get too cynical about the general opinions of carbon dioxide emissions. I've sent a U2U, maybe you can set out and bring about better awareness to the devastating effects of cloud seeding. If anybody cares, this is a subject nobody should turn away from. You can put the bullseye on the industry and also those responsible for cloud seeding.

If this practise continues, and the upper atmosphere reaches a concentration of critical mass with these aerosols, the world will be witness to a catastrophic phenomenon.

If you could fathom the impact cloud seeding would have when one of these clouds were to ever pass over any burning oil field, or acres of unfiltered smoke stacks... it's a looming death sentence: Russian Cloud Seeding

Australia's Cloud Seeding

United States Cloud Seeding

These aerosols will join with industrial exhaust fumes.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Kinesis]

> One melts, one grows

From everything I've read, most are melting.

The people who scare me are the ones at each extreme of this argument.
Keep your mind open, and your eyes open wider still.

This is too important an issue to let 'polarity' cloud our view of it.

reply to post by Gorman91


Wow, that post just screamed maturity and good reasoning I think readers can see clearly now how poorly strung together your understanding of this issue really is.

Hot CO2 and the comments about theromodynamics? Oh my god. I think it's time to head back to highschool.

Anyway you've done your own reputation more damage than any external force ever could.

I've got nothing more to add to this, I bring logical discussion, you jump around flinging feces. I'd welcome you to the internet too... but, well, you're not welcome in my eyes. I agree with the latter part of the image though, you lose. I'm out.

reply to post by Sublime620


Oh, sorry to burst your bubble. But Al Gore is full of himself, and the debate is indeed over. Global Warming is a scam, climate change is occurring, but not because of us.

The Earth is some 4 billion years old. A star exploded recently that was over 7 billion light years away, and we just got the news.

That proves there is definitley something bigger in this world than AGW, Al Gore, or you.

Sorry about your luck!

half and half

half because of our fault which is speeding it up and half is a natural phenomenom

who ever asked for concrete evidence why dont you go to la, see how hot and how much polution there is.

I have learned some new techniques in this thread, the best of which is how to prove one is right. Simply say "the debate is over" "you lose". It IS much simpler that way.

Now I believe the debate was over Gore's recent name calling of those people that apparently do not believe in the climate change scenerio as he has laid it out. Funny thing is the outrage of being called names has resulted in hurled insults at those on two (notice I did not say both) sides of the climate change debate.

Try to be civilized.

reply to post by stikkinikki


They act like all Gore does it whine about carbon emissions. Gore has taken steps to make this world an overall better place. That includes preservation of wildlife, safe disposal of nuclear waste and other toxins, and cutting down on carbon emissions.

While I agree that his carbon tax is a stretch, everything else this man has done is generally helpful.

Oh wait, I forgot, they watched a YouTube video that says that Gore is part of some giant conspiracy to control the world.

Originally posted by Sublime620
reply to post by stikkinikki

 

They act like all Gore does it whine about carbon emissions. Gore has taken steps to make this world an overall better place. That includes preservation of wildlife, safe disposal of nuclear waste and other toxins, and cutting down on carbon emissions.

While I agree that his carbon tax is a stretch, everything else this man has done is generally helpful.

Oh wait, I forgot, they watched a YouTube video that says that Gore is part of some giant conspiracy to control the world.

It's not about Gore. It's about the Gore-cult. Say what you will about the things you say he has 'done.' He has not been the instrument of truth in this regard. He has taken a position (and a good one at that - I'll grant you) but allowed the profiteers to latch on (as usual) to promote an agenda they can take advantage of (go on - say it's worth it) and failed to accept that the 'declarations' he has put forth as the truth was quite metaphorically speaking, half-baked. He should have poured all this energy into research not 'declarations.'

By the way, I at least, would never say that he is part of a giant conspiracy to control the world, I would say he is their bitch (pardon the vernacular - but it is the most apropos.) If the CFR called him in today, and told him to stop - he would.

reply to post by Maxmars


Al Gore is going what he thinks is right. What nobody realizes is that cloud seeding could be biggest mistake mankind could make. The more I read up about how it works, and how it's used, I have no doubt this will have a devastating impact. Silver ionized aerosols capable of holding 100x its own weight. The Chinese government is using this to clear their airspace of pollution of the Olympics. This stuff will hover like black clouds and rain down an acidic studge and rust coloured snow, bringing with it sulfur, lead, silver and many forms of toxic bacteria that are currently suspended in the air. This is what we should focus our attention on, not whether or not Al Gore is a good or bad man.

I can not overstate the importance of getting this message out. CO2 will work itself out, but this new method of getting rid of airborn toxicity is flat out destructive!

reply to post by Maxmars


I agree with you on that.

The simple fact is, it is impossible for our government to get anything productive done these days. Any good bill seems to have malicious intent behind it once all the pork has been attached.

reply to post by Kinesis

I fail to understand how any scientist worth his or her salt would agree with governments who think they can 'adjust' the environment. After all, we can't even seem to agree on what all the factors are, and here we are spraying 'additional' tons of substances in the air.

I assume when their houses stink they just spray air freshener until that's all you can smell. I am not a professional scientist, but as an amateur logician I can't see the reasoning behind it. What makes anyone think you can stabilize a dynamic system, whose variables you are only partially aware of, by throwing more 'stuff' into the mix? Remind me never to go to their house for dinner on pot luck night.

I think you are correct in that the CO2 cycle, given time for plant life to adjust, will stabilize itself (barring any cataclysmic unforeseen changes). But for crying out loud - where is the hard science that says we can 'seed' 'normality' back into the atmosphere? We can't even agree what should be there in the first place.

Could these 'government people' really only care about the short-term and not be concerned about the havoc they are causing in the environment? What could possibly be so important about 'politics' that you would destroy a planet to maintain an illusion 'normalcy?' Don't they have children? The degree of dysfunction is mind-boggling.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Maxmars]

reply to post by Duality


You're not God. Just because you say I'm wrong does nothing at all. And what with most of the community believing my words, I believe I'm doing good to my rep.

Anyway, by all means, please explain how the hell hot CO2 stays hot in the upper atmosphere. And not to mention why the entire solar system is heating up?

It also seems odd to me that people say "OMFG! It's the highest CO2 EVER!"

Because looking at the fossil records, bugs use to be big, then got small. Then their niche was replaced by big reptiles, then they collapsed and got small, got big (up and down for 500 million years) and then went out, allowing mammals to replace them,and grow big.

This shows that more CO2= smaller life. And what with life being average size, I'd say we're in the middle of a flux.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Maxmars
I think you are correct in that the CO2 cycle, given time for plant life to adjust, will stabilize itself (barring any cataclysmic unforeseen changes). But for crying out loud - where is the hard science that says we can 'seed' 'normality' back into the atmosphere? We can't even agree what should be there in the first place.

Could these 'government people' really only care about the short-term and not be concerned about the havoc they are causing in the environment? What could possibly be so important about 'politics' that you would destroy a planet to maintain an illusion 'normalcy?' Don't they have children? The degree of dysfunction is mind-boggling.

This is the brutal reality of it all. The more I read up on cloud seeding, and how it's used, it just "clicked". This CO2 awareness and Al Gore being the frontman for change is just an elaborate decoy. Forget about Al Gore, let him do what's right in his own time, in his own way. Cloud seeding will be the dawn of destruction for humanity. It's a domino effect after that. People will see how these clouds attract toxic pollutants and infection bacteria, and precipitate over vast areas ruining everything. It won't be one or two years, if we don't stop it, the phenomenon will last TWELVE years! When critical mass is reached, as all the countries embark on this new destructive cloud seeding, it will be too late.

Silver is a neurotoxic, that causes rashes and when it enters the system in inhibits the immune system. It is said that these aerosols can carry up to 100x its weight in these cloud clusters. This won't be just water vapour and silver. If you're the slightest bit aware of what is in these exhaust fumes, then you'll know that's what these clouds will precipitate in a thick granular acidic sludge.

Cloud Seeding Aerosols

cloud seeding seems a wee bit "meh"

A little meteor 65 million years ago pumped IMMENSE pollution into the air. Bacteria got to it, trees cleaned it, and everything returned to normal on its own in a few millennial. With human influence, it can be a decade and it's fixed.

Originally posted by Gorman91
cloud seeding seems a wee bit "meh"

A little meteor 65 million years ago pumped IMMENSE pollution into the air. Bacteria got to it, trees cleaned it, and everything returned to normal on its own in a few millennial. With human influence, it can be a decade and it's fixed.

That's a pretty dismissive opinion. Too many people make the same assumptions you do. 65 millions years ago, whatever meteors hit this planet wasn't cleaned up in a couple of decades, that's for sure. Trees don't spring up overnight with the threat of encroachment, and dead animals of extinct species don't suddenly spring to life, like some Walt Disney cartoon.

Cloud seeding can't be compared to a meteor. And a meteor can't be compared to industrial pollution. There already is human influence in the ecosystem, and it's worsening what precious little that's left.

If you can't grasp the severity of the problem, why comment on it?