Sterilise parents receiving government benefits, says Tory

The idea of steralising "Chavs" brings a great amount of joy to me. If you got rid of all the chavs the UK would be a much nicer place to live in, the crime rate would drop, the national IQ would rise and the would be a hell of a lot less vandalism.

Also so what if it is selective breeding? Getting rid of the "lazy" and "criminal" genes from the gene pool sounds like a great idea to me.

All I can say is, too much control!!!!!!!!!

What makes people accept control? well thats something that will make sense to them, some may think hey this may be a good idea, letting the goverment control our lives, and stopping those who don't deserve more kids having them, but wait what gives us the right, to judge other peoples natural right to have kids? these people are also forgetting about the good people, who work hard everyday, do you think they don't deserve kids?

And the most important thing is, what's next?

[edit on 26-3-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by stumason
I can spot a council estate person from a mile off, just by how they look.

I don't think so, you can spot a chav, or a hoodie, or some drugged up looking guy or woman, or one of those mothers that always look anrgy and shout all the time a mile away, but they don't all live in estates, they can live anywhere, trust me, also there are many clever, nice looking people who live in estates, and you would have no idea if they lived in one or not.

Just stop giving them so much money! say after having more than 3 kids don't give them anymore money it's as simple as that then people won't have more than 3 kids without work. We have a big problem coming in this country with a population that is getting older and people living of benifits when they are perfectly capable of working. With Polish and Eastern Europeans flooding into this country working for under minimum wage and not paying taxes the whole country is suffering.

The govement is already over taxing people in this country whilst over spending at the same time, can only mean one thing the nation becomes poorer and the economy suffers. People need to realise the more goverment gets involved the worse the situation gets. I was against National Service 5 years ago I have changed my mind and it might put alot of kids on the right path. I mean we have prisons where you can play your PS3 and watch television, whats the point in keeping them locked up? why don't we go back to the days when prisoners did some work for a change. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer everyday in this country and no one can be bothered to do anything about it.

Funny thing is I thought I lived in England, and we fought a world war against a country who carried out medical experiments on people and thought sterilising misfits and unfortunates was a good idea.

Just because someone is down on their luck, or maybe going through hard times and just trying to get by is not justification to sterilise them.

I mean, where do you draw the line? Sterilise everyone on benefits. Then it will be those on low wages. Then maybe it will be those receiving family tax credits for more than two kids...

I suggest we sterilise people who condone this. Lets see how they like it first huh?

[edit on 26/0308/08 by neformore]

Sterilisation is not necessary. There plenty of more useful ways in which the government might address poverty. Indeed, it can be cured with lasting benefit to society. I have started a thread to discuss such a method, and have cross-referenced this thread in it.

Poverty does indeed have a cure.

While I know this is of particular importance to our British brethren, it seems difficult to accept that any government should be trusted not to abuse the power to biologically control a population. Wouldn't the temptation to exercise ideological control via sterilization be too great? I mean, here in the US I wouldn't trust an elected official to pick a color scheme for an elementary school, let alone whether someone should be allowed to raise a family.

And besides, who's to say the decider of such things should be 'allowed' to reproduce? Would their be hearings? Could someone bring a case to halt the implementation of the decision. Can Sterilization be 'undone' if proven to be the wrong course of action?

I know many people like this idea (though I shudder to think how they would react to being told that they have been deemed 'unworthy' of contributing to the gene pool).

Does anyone know of someone who contributed greatly to humankind - but wouldn't exist if this practice had been in place before he or she was born?

It never seems wise to tinker with natural selection, you never know what long-term effect might surprise future generations.

reply to post by Maxmars


Yes can we trust the goverments, use and abuse, their judgements etc,? what gives them the right to judge people's love life.

What about having brothers and sisters, I don't know about anyone else, but I appreciate having brothers and sisters.

And most importantly, if we were to accept such a crazy idea, what's next, what would be the goverments next idea, it makes me shiver.

All this talk of chavs is just a snobbish spasm ... by folks who find themselves slipping down the pecking order for whatever reason. They need someone to blame so, hell, why not blame those at the very bottom of the social pile ?

They don't bother blaming those rich people or corporations who, by the use of loopholes, manage to not pay a ha'penny in tax ... avoiding billions of pounds in tax ... they don't bother blaming themselves as they pay for that house repair "cash in hand" or as they collect their interest tax free from their savings accounts. They don't blame themselves for sending their kids to private schools - these businesses which benefit from tax free status too due to their alleged charitable status. They dont complain as the state pays benefit to cover their mortgages & service charges. They dont complain as the state buys them new cars every year through motability.

The middle classes are even worse than the chavs ... at least with the chavs you know they're just robbing you blind ...

Na lets just blame that single mother down the road for all the country's woes. That £59.15 she gets to keep herself every week, well my God that'd make such a difference to the nations finances. What's that ? £5 billion a year ? A drop in the ocean.

The middle classes have some ENORMOUS chips on their shoulders.

Originally posted by easystreet
I work in an area of high disadvantage in England...... on a HUGE council estate. At the end of the day I return to my 'middle class' home 5 miles away....

I applaud your work easystreet, though you should take into account this theory when you are next at work. Think about how it would be if the miscreants were subjected to sterilization, and would it help the few around them who are actually interested in working.

It is not as simple as sterlising people, there are many other issues... some listed below:

of those I work with - where teenage pregnancies run at 10%... those young people make the choice to get pregnant, most of them not for the benefits. They get pregnant because they want someone to love, that will love them back... like a 'real doll'. For these young people who have poor quality of life it is a real positive choice.

Its understandable. I can understand their thinking, because they are of low intelligence and don't know any better. I cannot however, condone this behaviour. They are simply bringing children into the world unecessarily. The child is going to be subjected to a poor upbringing and will most likely become a criminal or another leech on the state.

Many people on these estates are working, however they earn minimum wages which gives them a low income. What you find is that family life is very important to these people, even if it is a different way of living than perhaps we may be used to.

These are the sorts of people who I would like benefit to work in favour of, those that are actually making the effort. The sterilization measure is for those who dont make the effort and instead rely on having children to procure state income.

I know whenever there is a problem on estates, the residents close ranks and support each other. Everyone knows everyone and although there is conflict, there is also a cameradrie which I think most people have lost over the years as we have become more affluent.

They may be well intentioned people towards each other, but I assure you that when I walk near these people I get a less than warm welcome. They are antisocial and frankly, poorly mannered.

Parents I meet on benefits are largely uneducated.... didn't attend school much and left with little or no qualifications.

We are a country with free education for all. If these people left school, they are to be blamed entirely. I hate to think of the opportunities that these people are wasting, when children in third world countries pack into classrooms 60 at a time trying to learn to better themselves.

This is a cycle of deprivation which goes on and on through generations... sterlising people would not necessarily break this cycle.... it would be selective breeding.

Hehe. Actually it would do exactly that : break the cycle. Stop the cycle of breeding of the benefits abusers, stop the cycle itself. Indeed it would be selective breeding, but with a fair premise. This is not nazism, where some were arbitrarily persecuted; this is a system to better humanity by continuing where evolution left off.

We need to educate people and work with them to give them quality of life, pride in themselves and ambition to get out of the situation that they are in.

You know thats kind of hard when these people refuse to go to school or refuse to take jobs that they are given. And even if they go to school they are abusive and rowdy, thereby distracting other children who are interested in learning.

You mention pride. I think a viable alternative would be to re-introduce National Service/ conscription for those who dont want to continue school after 16. The army would gain much needed recruits. They would be drilled in discipline and they would gain extremely valuable career skills. #Hell, they may even become productive members of society again.

Originally posted by Niall197
All this talk of chavs is just a snobbish spasm ... by folks who find themselves slipping down the pecking order for whatever reason. They need someone to blame so, hell, why not blame those at the very bottom of the social pile ?

Because its the logical conclusion, aka the truth.

They don't bother blaming those rich people or corporations who, by the use of loopholes, manage to not pay a ha'penny in tax ... avoiding billions of pounds in tax

This simply doesnt occur. Care to offer some evidence behind your jelousy-driven rantings?

... they don't bother blaming themselves as they pay for that house repair "cash in hand" or as they collect their interest tax free from their savings accounts.

Did the state have anything to do with these activities? Why the hell should I have to pay tax for no reason whatsoever when the government has had nothing to do with the generation of that wealth. Want to live in a society which appropriates the proceeds of wealth then I suggest you live in a communist country.

They don't blame themselves for sending their kids to private schools - these businesses which benefit from tax free status too due to their alleged charitable status.

And you don't complain when these very same people grow up to get high paying jobs and are divested of their earnings by the state in unfairly high income taxes, VAT taxes, corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, and death taxes.

The middle classes are even worse than the chavs ... at least with the chavs you know they're just robbing you blind ...

Na lets just blame that single mother down the road for all the country's woes. That £59.15 she gets to keep herself every week, well my God that'd make such a difference to the nations finances. What's that ? £5 billion a year ? A drop in the ocean.

The middle classes have some ENORMOUS chips on their shoulders.

And the lower classes have some ENORMOUS jelousy issues.

Frankly sir, your contempt for people who are doing better in life is pathetic. The very venom with which you speak of those with an ounce of ambition is evidence of the roots of the Labour movement.

How about opening your eyes to the economic issues rather than sitting there green with envy, ranting about the middle class who pay the taxes that keep this barge of a country going.

An MP can claim £4000 for a kitchen ontop of their allocated salary (which they vote for by the way)

Thats only £503 less than the average weekly payment of £86.66 across a year.

Shall we sterlise them too?

reply to post by neformore


[sarcasm]
Sterilise those useless wasters...they do nothing but subvert and manipulate the system to their own ends, don't put any effort into justifying their government support, claim vast amounts of child-benefit needlessly, and are generally parasites on the arse of decent society...

...I was referring to the MPs

[/sarcasm]

edit to include [sarcasm] tags for clarity



[edit on 26-3-2008 by citizen smith]

Originally posted by neformore
An MP can claim £4000 for a kitchen ontop of their allocated salary (which they vote for by the way)

Thats only £503 less than the average weekly payment of £86.66 across a year.

Shall we sterlise them too?

Neformore the problem is that we are a parliamentary democracy.

Who votes these money wasters into power as MPs? Yup youve guessed it, the unintelligent masses.

Sterilize the idiots and you stop getting stupid politicians who waste money into power.

Id 100% be up for sterilizing Derek Conway, but I take pity on the doctor who would have to perform such a procedure.

en.wikipedia.org...

The problem with this kind of rule is, I can see a group of people taking revenge on the goverment, kidnap a few politicians who were a part of this and chop their balls off.

Seems fair to me.

All I can say is that the day something like this happens, is the day I will gather my family together and leave the country with them.

Because it won't be England, or Britain anymore. It will be some facist nightmare. Half a million British people would have died in WW2 in vain so that such things could not happen

I won't want to live in it, or have anything to do with it.

Its a crassly stupid and unhuman idea.

[edit on 26/0308/08 by neformore]

[edit on 26/0308/08 by neformore]

reply to post by 44soulslayer

I worry that you support this.

Your problem is that you assume that people receiving benefits are unintelligent, scum and useless, I find that, well "unintelligent".

Quite a few of the people in my school who were top in the class, very clever, were on benefits.

Your judgements worry me.

I also worry that you start to blame these so called "unintelligent" people for who is in charge of the country. I think you need to stop generalizing.

I'm not sure how it works in the UK, but I know that here in the US you pay for these 'govt funds' through your taxes. I was once on medicaid for a pregnancy and have four children, your saying I should have been sterilized? I paid over the years way more than I ever took out and it was a very temporary situation. Not everyone who gets on some sort of govt program is out to mooch off of it. Some use it as it was intended to be, just a temporary help while you were getting back on your feet. I used it for 6 months and was back on my own insurance and have never looked back. I am not poor by most any standards and I work my ass off to provide for all of mine.

I think there is this perception that anyone who is on welfare or some sort of govt program is automatically mooching off the system or some sort of impoverished breeder who wants nothing more than to live off the govt. Not true and beyond that I don't think taking away someones rights is an effective way to solve the problem of taking too much from the govt assistance programs. There are other ways to get people back up on their feet and being a productive member of society.

What a stupid idea, everyone on benefits that can actually get any sort of job should be shot or thrown off a cliff not sterilised.
And anyone faking a disability should be beaten until they have said disability and taken off benefits indefinietly. That would certainly get rid of unemployment.I'm tired of people being afraid to walk the streets at night and not being able to walk past a certain group of people without being hit with abuse or beaten up for fighting back.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

I worry that you support this.

Your problem is that you assume that people receiving benefits are unintelligent, scum and useless, I find that, well "unintelligent".

Quite a few of the people in my school who were top in the class, very clever, were on benefits.

Your judgements worry me.

I also worry that you start to blame these so called "unintelligent" people for who is in charge of the country. I think you need to stop generalizing.

This is why I sometimes find it hard to debate with bleeding heart liberals.

I never said everyone on benefits ought to be sterilized did I?? At least do me the courtesy of reading my posts before you launch a tirade against me.

I said I support sterilization in cases of indemic inbreeding, and the use of procreation as a means to get money off the government.

I support the benefit system when it helps people that are down on luck. I dont support it when it subsidizes laziness... those who are able to work and refuse to are scum, plain and simple. Would you care to advance a position defending the workshy?

And yes, I do blame the unintelligent masses for electing in a government that has managed to destroy any semblance of pride this country had. When I came to this country in the 90s, it was for the fair working opportunities and ability to build a life here. The masses voted in a labour government in for 3 terms and they have taken all that away. They have taken any incentive for me to remain in this country away.
So please excuse me for blaming the ignorant masses of this country, but they are the ones who voted in this tyrannical government.