Jesus Nail Sale

Originally posted by Tnoel
Millions have the same or some form of the same arguement I do -- that's pretty strong support for having no side.

Millions? I'd say billions. This does NOT make it any more true AT ALL. If billions believe a lie, does it make it more true? The number of "believers" doesn't add to the validity of something. It just makes it more difficult to reveal for what it is, as you simply have more opposition from close-minded sheeple who will die before their insecurities are shown to them.

How we live our lives are very different from one another. This discussion could simply go on for days, weeks, months, years, because we are coming at it from 2 different playing fields with 2 completely different play books.

I support what Mel is doing and I hope this film is a financial success. Above all it may lead to additional efforts on his part and that is an important thing to happen in this world at this time.

The details are not as important in this issue as the main thrust of the story, the message that Christ tried to give to all mankind.

Originally posted by Tnoel
How we live our lives are very different from one another.

Can we say, understatement?

This discussion could simply go on for days, weeks, months, years, because we are coming at it from 2 different playing fields with 2 completely different play books.

We've seen enough points from both sides, the rest is upto the mental exercises, not written. You made your point, I made mine.

So yes, there is no reason to continue the discussion as we've obviously made clear our stances on life and reality, as contrasting as they seem to be. Thanks for the stimulating talk though, I seem to learn more by discussion than by solitary thinking.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Tnoel
So crosses can do neither good nor evil.

I think the symbol of the cross is simply a reminder of what Jesus sacrificed for you. To die for our sin. If you look at a cross and you remember that then it has done some good.

What YOU believe is irrelevant. What did God say?

Leviticus 26
1 " 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.


Joshua 24

23 "Now then," said Joshua, "throw away the foreign gods that are among you and yield your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel."

Idolatry the bible speaks of is more than just an object; it is the worship of another god.

The dictionary defines the word:

idol�a�try

Pronunciation: -trE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tries
1: the worship of a physical object as a god

So it�s deeper than the worship of an object, it is the worship and allegiance to another god.

Genesis 31

19 When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father's household gods.
Many people in the Old Testament kept small wooden or metal idols (�gods�) in their homes. These idols were called teraphim, and they were thought to protect the home and offer advice in times of need. They had legal significance as well, when they were passed on to an heir, the person could claim the greatest part of the family inheritance


Hmm so God is a liar then? There ARE other Gods to worship? I knew he was hiding something, that rascal!

You don�t know how to respond because you can�t backup your statements, sarcasm and mockery is your only defense. It seems you are unwilling to learn because of your pride. Pride is also a sin against God.

Originally posted by THENEO
I support what Mel is doing and I hope this film is a financial success. Above all it may lead to additional efforts on his part and that is an important thing to happen in this world at this time.

The details are not as important in this issue as the main thrust of the story, the message that Christ tried to give to all mankind.

Maybe so, but hopefully the people will not pay as much attention to events as they have been portrayed, and see the deeper meaning of the message.

But one must be careful before jumping to conclusions such as "suffering is important because Jesus suffered, so I shall make myself suffer too" etc... they'd be missing the point altogether.

Suffering in itself would not do you much good, it is the REASON for suffering, and of course the lessons one learns. In Christ's case is *could* be simply because he taught truth to the people whose beliefs and religious ideas conflicted with Christ's teachings, and therefore it caused HIM suffering. Yet he would persevere, which would eventually end up causing him to die.

So suffering ALONE means nothing, it is always WHY one would suffer, and the lessons learned.

Another thing you may take away from the movie is that at any time when someone shows up to this world to teach the truth, it is suppressed, destroyed, reviled, and basically eliminated. The question would then be posed, would it be ANY different TODAY than it was 2000 years ago?

Wouldn't it be naive to assume the teachings of someone like Jesus, if he existed, would NOT be corrupted to this day to suit the power-hungry elite?

Thanks for the stimulating talk though, I seem to learn more by discussion than by solitary thinking.

That is also an understatement and works both ways. Thanks.

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by kinglizard

Originally posted by Tnoel
So crosses can do neither good nor evil.

I think the symbol of the cross is simply a reminder of what Jesus sacrificed for you. To die for our sin. If you look at a cross and you remember that then it has done some good.

What YOU believe is irrelevant. What did God say?

Leviticus 26
1 " 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

Joshua 24

23 "Now then," said Joshua, "throw away the foreign gods that are among you and yield your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel."

Idolatry the bible speaks of is more than just an object; it is the worship of another god.

The dictionary defines the word:

idol�a�try

Pronunciation: -trE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -tries
1: the worship of a physical object as a god

So it�s deeper than the worship of an object, it is the worship and allegiance to another god.

Genesis 31

19 When Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole her father's household gods.
Many people in the Old Testament kept small wooden or metal idols (�gods�) in their homes. These idols were called teraphim, and they were thought to protect the home and offer advice in times of need. They had legal significance as well, when they were passed on to an heir, the person could claim the greatest part of the family inheritance


Hmm so God is a liar then? There ARE other Gods to worship? I knew he was hiding something, that rascal!

You don�t know how to respond because you can�t backup your statements, sarcasm and mockery is your only defense. It seems you are unwilling to learn because of your pride. Pride is also a sin against God.

What sarcasm? What mockery? God could have no reason to be so defensive unless there are other Gods, but he's not telling us. Maybe he's not GOD after all, but a pretentious controller that just wants to rule this planet and passes himself off as God?

Pride is only a sin against God if you BELIEVE that is what God (who you ASSUME exists) said. You also assume that this statement is made based on my PRIDE? So I cannot be proud of my accomplishments, as that would be a sin? Well that's your own opinion.

Originally posted by Tnoel

Thanks for the stimulating talk though, I seem to learn more by discussion than by solitary thinking.

That is also an understatement and works both ways. Thanks.

But ain't that da truth? Whenever you try to explain something to someone, you almost inevitably begin to understand it much better yourself? And rather than attempting to compare and contrast your views with other people exclusively in your mind, you get real live feed back!

I do hope you question your beliefs, as that is how one learns. But perhaps I should be more tolerant and less rash in my assessments, as they may possibly hurt your feelings and would distract us into an emotional/defensive confrontation from an originally-intended discussion.

And since you are the translation expert Colonel and obviously believe the translations offered forth...

Wasn't it thought that Jesus was born in a manger? The word was "Kataluma". The original Greek word has no strict English translation. Kataluma, means literally "to loose down". It is used to describe a place that travellers could use when travelling or visiting away from home. The 17th century "authorised" version translates it as "an Inn" as does the Good News Bible, the New International version, the Jerusalem Bible & the Living Bible. The New English Bible, however, translates it as "house".

So now, with all of the possiblilities of translation, are you saying that your take on it is the correct one and no possible alternatives exist?

Now, how about a little "education" for you then...

What does Exodus say?

31 And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same.

32 And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side:

33 Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.

34 And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.

35 And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.

36 Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.

37 And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it.

38 And the tongs thereof, and the snuffdishes thereof, shall be of pure gold.

39 Of a talent of pure gold shall he make it, with all these vessels.

40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Presto! The Menorah. So HE instructs the making of Menorah but all other symbols are wrong? But then HE instructs the making of the veil...

31 And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:

32 And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of #tim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

And instructs to hang it in as a symbol?

And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel

Burning a lamp not a symbol?

And thou shalt receive them of their hands, and burn them upon the altar for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour before the LORD: it is an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

A fire offering not a symbol?

The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,

8 And the table and his furniture, and the pure candlestick with all his furniture, and the altar of incense,

9 And the altar of burnt offering with all his furniture, and the laver and his foot,

Hmmm...plenty of symbols here.

43 And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they had done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.

And finally...HE blessed them. But wait, the Colonel's translation says NO symbols? How can this be? So now which is wrong, the Colonel or GOD? Hmmm....


And I suppose this man is totally wrong too...

So that Yamacha on the Pope's head does not make him Jewish? And why is the cross bent? There was another thread made a few minutes ago about the possibility of satanic influences and that Pope may not be Catholic at all...

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander
And since you are the translation expert Colonel and obviously believe the translations offered forth...

Wasn't it thought that Jesus was born in a manger? The word was "Kataluma". The original Greek word has no strict English translation. Kataluma, means literally "to loose down". It is used to describe a place that travellers could use when travelling or visiting away from home. The 17th century "authorised" version translates it as "an Inn" as does the Good News Bible, the New International version, the Jerusalem Bible & the Living Bible. The New English Bible, however, translates it as "house".

So now, with all of the possiblilities of translation, are you saying that your take on it is the correct one and no possible alternatives exist?

Now, how about a little "education" for you then...

What does Exodus say?

31 And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same.

32 And six branches shall come out of the sides of it; three branches of the candlestick out of the one side, and three branches of the candlestick out of the other side:

33 Three bowls made like unto almonds, with a knop and a flower in one branch; and three bowls made like almonds in the other branch, with a knop and a flower: so in the six branches that come out of the candlestick.

34 And in the candlestick shall be four bowls made like unto almonds, with their knops and their flowers.

35 And there shall be a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, and a knop under two branches of the same, according to the six branches that proceed out of the candlestick.

36 Their knops and their branches shall be of the same: all it shall be one beaten work of pure gold.

37 And thou shalt make the seven lamps thereof: and they shall light the lamps thereof, that they may give light over against it.

38 And the tongs thereof, and the snuffdishes thereof, shall be of pure gold.

39 Of a talent of pure gold shall he make it, with all these vessels.

40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Presto! The Menorah. So HE instructs the making of Menorah but all other symbols are wrong? But then HE instructs the making of the veil...

31 And thou shalt make a vail of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen of cunning work: with cherubims shall it be made:

32 And thou shalt hang it upon four pillars of #tim wood overlaid with gold: their hooks shall be of gold, upon the four sockets of silver.

33 And thou shalt hang up the vail under the taches, that thou mayest bring in thither within the vail the ark of the testimony: and the vail shall divide unto you between the holy place and the most holy.

And instructs to hang it in as a symbol?

And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always.

21 In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel

Burning a lamp not a symbol?

And thou shalt receive them of their hands, and burn them upon the altar for a burnt offering, for a sweet savour before the LORD: it is an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

A fire offering not a symbol?

The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle,

8 And the table and his furniture, and the pure candlestick with all his furniture, and the altar of incense,

9 And the altar of burnt offering with all his furniture, and the laver and his foot,

Hmmm...plenty of symbols here.

43 And Moses did look upon all the work, and, behold, they had done it as the LORD had commanded, even so had they done it: and Moses blessed them.

And finally...HE blessed them. But wait, the Colonel's translation says NO symbols? How can this be? So now which is wrong, the Colonel or GOD? Hmmm....

And I suppose this man is totally wrong too...

I�m glad you posted what you did. All those things you mentioned are symbols not idols. That�s why idolatry is a sin and symbology isn�t, they are completely different. Symbology is the art of expression by symbols. Idolatry is the worship of a physical object as a god. I think people easily confuse them.

More education? How about yet another symbol in the bible, straight from GOD. And, get this...it's a serpent!

God told Moses to make a bronze serpent (Numbers 21.6-9) and set it on a pole so that all who looked at it would be saved from snakebite. The serpent was here received as a symbol of Christ (in that salvation was granted through it).

How about another?

The Bible is a mere book made of paper, ink, and cloth. Nevertheless, we hold it in special esteem because, though the book is itself made of ordinary material, it is an symbol of the Word of God. We honor the Word and show the Bible respect because that respect passes on to the prototype.

So in the end, it is just a symbol itself.

Here's a pic of the nail pendant for anyone who is interested.
Needless to say, it was on sale on Ebay - although the bidding has finished now.



cgi.ebay.com...

the interesting thing is that, during my search for a picture of this item that has caused so much controversy, I discovered this. It's a cross made with nails and sold by a Christian store.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

And finally...HE blessed them. But wait, the Colonel's translation says NO symbols? How can this be? So now which is wrong, the Colonel or GOD? Hmmm....

God is right and I am right. In none of those passages did, any worship them as idols or beleive them to be idols. They were "things" for use or things that werved a purpose like the vail that devided the Holy from the Most Holy.

And I suppose this man is totally wrong too...



Yes, he is, THE MOST WRONG.

Originally posted by THENEO
I support what Mel is doing and I hope this film is a financial success. Above all it may lead to additional efforts on his part and that is an important thing to happen in this world at this time.

The details are not as important in this issue as the main thrust of the story, the message that Christ tried to give to all mankind.

and that he was white, right?

that's nothing. i found a baby jesus butt plug and a jesus dildo once

Originally posted by silQ
that's nothing. i found a baby jesus butt plug and a jesus dildo once

HAHAHA!!! Mirth! Jesus Dildo...

Well they say if you have faith in Jesus, he is all "pleasure" you'll need.

But a butt plug? Thanks silQ, great way to end your day in hysterical laughter...

Originally posted by Colonel
This is the kind of crap I'm talking about. You got this fake-ass movie supposedly depicting the "true" story of Jesus when it can't be true if Jesus isn't black in the film. Then, all the Jesus Freaks get all goofy and reverant, saying, "In the name of God, you must see this gory bloodfest of a film. See the blood. See the gore. See the torture. Praise Jesus."

Then, tis not bad enough that they will be making filthy lucre off the lie but now look what their doing!

February 19, 2004 -- Replicas of the nails used to hang Jesus on the cross have become the red-hot official merchandise linked to Mel Gibson's controversial new movie, "The Passion of the Christ."
Pendants made from the pewter, 2 1/2-inch nails - selling for $16.99 - all but flew out of the Christian Publications Bookstore on West 43rd Street as soon as they were put on display.

Hundreds of stores across the country will be selling licensed items tied to the movie, a graphically violent depiction of the last 12 hours of Christ's life, which opens next week on Ash Wednesday.

The souvenirs include a book, pins, key chains, coffee mugs and T-shirts.

But the most unusual collectibles are the nails, each of which hangs on a leather cord.

Its side bears the inscription "Isaiah 53:5," referring to a Bible verse that begins, "He was pierced for our transgressions . . ."

www.nypost.com...

[Edited on 20-2-2004 by Colonel]

HA HA HA! and you think you know what jesus looked like? your so funny im pissing myslef from laughing so hard.

I think I'm going to make my own movie , entitled "The Passions of Satan, or, How The Devil Got Screwed." LOL

Just kidding,
my .02 (opinion/on), It's like this....I'm sure there are some religious people SOMEWHERE with some sense,I hope. But, the more that I meet in my real life, the more I doubt that. There's always gonna be somebody making money off religion, because there's always gonna be gullible people that'll buy anything if they think it makes them better buddies with their good (imaginary) friend god.

Frankly, I haven't saw themovie yet...though I WILL see it, just so I can yell "Cut off his head! That'll keep his coniving arse fromreappearing in the next scene!"" and watch all the jesus freaks trip out and preach at me...lol. That should be some entertainment.
You guys want to see an example of how deep into religion my local community is..?? go to this... www.news-expressky.com and click on "message board." My name on there is James Roberts by the way, not afraid one bit to tell ya, though it should be obvious that I'm the differing one in the debates... Read what the others post though, you'll get an idea of the "becawse GAWD sed SO!!!" and "THE BUY BULL SAYS SO!!! SO IT IS!!!" attitude that is taken in nowadays, sadly...

If you wanna buy nails, go to lowes....they are probably stronger anyways....

If you REALLY wanna show how religious you are, go hang a railroad spike on your necklace....that way people can see it from farther away, and will know to avoid you.

IF you don't agree with me, I really don't care. Please point the "god loves you, ill pray for you, youre gonna burn, someday youll see, read the bible" or other christian comebacks in some other direction. Im not trying to fight with the xians, just stating MY OPINION.

peace to ALL