The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

reply to post by KosherKrackers




I'm not saying you should simply lay down, by all means raise your placards and chant your mantras.

But don't try to force the change if it doesn't look like it's going to work, because that will turn people away from you.

You need to be seen as a positive force for change instead of a negative, essentially.

And of course, we can all see how tricky that is to pull off when we look at the current elections.

edit @ another anon: So, you'd go so far as to say that ALL YOU DO is PROTEST PEACEFULLY?

Because that is, by all means - the avenue you need to be walking down.


[edit on 25-2-2008 by Throbber]

Originally posted by another anon
we are NOT attacking there religion, how many times has this been said to you? how many times have you failed to absorb it? we are attacking the organization, the corporate entity, the busyness, and all the people involved in the maintenance of this criminal enterprise.

Ladies and Gentleman, you are seeing first hand what happens when a newby disinfo agent "anon too" is lost for what to say. I have explained what I mean by intolerant and you continue to harp on this issue, telling me I haven't explained it.

You say "we are not attacking their religion ... we are attacking the organization."

Their organization is a relgion! There is no getting around this fact! If you attack the organization, then you're attacking a religion, and that is NOT what this country/the world needs right now. We need tolerance, patience and understanding. You're using basic double-think on the people reading this thread and it's not going to work. "We are not attacking their religion ... we are attacking the organization." Your credibility is fading fast anon too, explain your "opposame" double-think posts to our fellow readers and why you fail to understand my explanation.

stared and flagged. not sure of the accuracy of your OP, but, very well laid out. an outstanding example of a thread.

cheers.

reply to post by freight tomsen


Oi, stay civil or you'll see a side to me that i like to show people i especially dislike.

reply to post by Throbber


Aye, point taken in that sense then, but we haven't been attempting to force anything other than publicisation of the abuses scientology has perpetrated.

It's up to the people to make the decisions from there on, we kno where we stand, and we're not forcing anyone to stand with us.

reply to post by freight tomsen


The religion is the organisation?

I'm sorry, but you may as well that the populace is representative of that bilderberg thing and the misinformation and abuse it entails.

The general populace knows little to nothing about it, and little to nothing to do with it, therefore it is their government and their ideals and beliefs.

The general scientologist knows little to nothing about it, and little to nothing to do with it, therefore it is their religion and their ideals and beliefs.

We're attacking the abuse, not the beliefs, the beliefs are at the core of a religion, you can still be a Christian without prayer, without sunday services, without tithing, and without eating little crackers and drinking wine.

You can still be a scientologist without bankrupting people, supressing critical evidence and opinion, exploiting children and believers, driving people to suicide, etc, etc.

Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by KosherKrackers

 

So, you'd go so far as to say that ALL YOU DO is PROTEST PEACEFULLY?

Because that is, by all means - the avenue you need to be walking down.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by Throbber]

/*thinks about it*/
yeah prety much, that and disseminate information, there were some other tactics employed in the first week that we no longer use, but yeah, we are dedicated to peaceful protest. if you don't believe me, go the enturbulation.org forums, look around, make a post calling for something you would consider to be improper activities, try and mislead us.

Originally posted by freight tomsen

You say "we are not attacking their religion ... we are attacking the organization."

Their organization is a relgion! There is no getting around this fact! If you attack the organization, then you're attacking a religion, and that is NOT what this country/the world needs right now. We need tolerance, patience and understanding. You're using basic double-think on the people reading this thread and it's not going to work. "We are not attacking their religion ... we are attacking the organization." Your credibility is fading fast anon too, explain your "opposame" double-think posts to our fellow readers and why you fail to understand my explanation.

so if I protest the Catholic church because it is protecting pedophile priests I am attacking Christianity?

Remove.


[edit on 25-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by KosherKrackers


Yes, you might know where you stand, but the common sheeple doesn't.

That's why it's so important to maintain that social image.

In a twisted way you need to play the same game that scientology is playing with the public, except it doesn't seem apparent that you have any backup.

Which of course, makes me lean towards Anon instead of Scientology.

You could put this down to my chaotic nature, if you like.

Originally posted by another anon
if you don't believe me, go the enturbulation.org forums, look around, make a post calling for something you would consider to be improper activities, try and mislead us.

It's not a question of my belief, sir.

P.S: I do so hope you aren't suggesting/insinuating i'm some sort of disinfo agent, i'm not sure what the correct protocol is on ATS for deflecting that kind of accusation.



[edit on 25-2-2008 by Throbber]

Originally posted by another anon

so if I protest the Catholic church because it is protecting pedophile priests I am attacking Christianity?

If you want to take action against a certain priest then you take action against that priest, his organization/religion is irrelevant. If you're problem is the pedophilia, then you focus on that, not Catholicism. If your problem is criminals within Scientology, you focus on arresting those criminals, not on Scientology. Protest is your right to freedom of speech, just as it's their right to freedom of religion. I'm not saying you can't protest Scientology if you want to. What I'm saying is that the Anonymous movement was not just a random uprising from the people. The Anonymous movement, like Scientology itself, is a government operation.

Why is Anon attacking the CoS? There are a few reasons.

1) They're evil.

Check it out. They are. Anon has also gone after child molesters and white supremacists.

2) They're funny.

Just as important. I haven't had a laugh as good as I did for the whole "Marcab Confederacy" theory in months.

3) They're small and unpopular.

Their numbers are around ~50k in the US. About 90% of the US don't consider them a religion, and the best opinion they get from non-followers is usually "goofy but harmless".

4) There's no preexisting mass movement against them.

I've seen people ask "Why not protest the war?" There are already hundreds of thousands of ineffectual *expletive deleted* protesting the war. George Bush has made it clear on any number of occasions he doesn't care about public opinion on this issue. Even electing the opposition party into power merely proved they didn't have the backbone to oppose him.

5) They fight back

There are flame wars raging in forums all over the internet over this issue. General feedback is that Anon is winning that war. There are as-yet unconfirmed reports of people being targeted offline. Three protesters were assaulted on the 10th. It's no fun to launch a movement that's just going to be met with indifference.



All of these factors mean the the CoS is an excellent target for Anon.

A little history lesson


1930s & 1940s: L. Ron Hubbard hooks up with science-fiction writers, OTO, Aleister Crowley, Rocket Scientist Jack Parsons. Studies buddhism, mysticism, occultism, writes science-fiction.

1950s: Hubbard steals Crowleys teachings and Crowleys wife and money. With those techniques in his pocket and a few more from tibetan buddhism he attempts to "westernize" and "americanize" the teachings. His book Dianetics becomes a slamdunk bestseller.

1960s: Before Scientology became a totalitarian cult, it was a regular part of the "Human Potential Movement" attracting bright minds, hippies, new agers, Intellectuals. In the good ol days it even had a number of workable and effective tools that allowed people to progress (otherwise nobody would have joined). Reportedly, many of these mind-freeing tools have meanwhile been removed from the curriculum.

1970s: Hubbard started falling ill and taking prescription drugs (just like his predecessor Crowley). Strange and totalitarian guidlines started being installed. Hubbard toward into a megalomaniac. Prices for courses started peaking absurd and rip-off heights. What was once a few courses became a religion in order to be extempt from Tax. The cult begins.

1980s: Hubbard dissappears and is later declared dead. Many thousands of scientologists leave the church, dissappointed, disgruntled or out of the belief that Scientology has been hijacked and subverted by darker forces (some say the CIA). Hundreds of split-off groups, cults and seminars are founded (some of them called "Freezone"...people who teach scientology without being connected to the Cult).

1990s: The downward spiral of Scientology continues with various governments calling for a Ban of the Cult or for removing the religion-status. Germany is the forerunner of the anti-Scientology movement.

2000s: The endorsement by celebreties such as Tom Cruise gives CoS a little upswing. The latest development is the "anonymous" group which supposedly hopes to shed light on CoS and bring down criminal activity.

Originally posted by ArtfulD
There are as-yet unconfirmed reports of people being targeted offline. Three protesters were assaulted on the 10th. It's no fun to launch a movement that's just going to be met with indifference.

1: More Details, please.

This is something that can be used against scientology from the outside of the Anon movement, just incase anyone is listening who feels it nessecary to lend a hand.

2: Same country?

3: It isn't supposed to be fun.

reply to post by Throbber


Everyone loves the underdog, eh?

Seriously thuogh, I get your point, and while we may not have much in the media that's positively representative of our position, we've got plenty on the internet that's negative regarding scientology, and some that's positive about anonymous (Youtube picket videos, endorsement from a few non-anons).

While I can't speak for Anonymous, I for one am hoping that this attention, partially for us, and heavily against the Co$, will start to snowball via word of mouth, get picked up by the media, and spread throughout.

That's the core hope of any protest group really though, and without it, it'll likely just continue as it is and eventually fade into the annals of history.

And if it does garner attention, with such a wide group as we have, we inevitably have some eloquent and charismatic individuals that can take the front line.

Originally posted by TheComte
Very well thought-out and formatted thread. It's always interesting to learn something of how those agencies operate. Thanks for sharing your theory. I suspect that you are correct.

How frequently do the FBI and NSA carry out these sorts of operations? Do you know of any other examples?

The original poster's theory is that Anonymous is assisted by agencies such as the CIA and the NSA to create distrust of them by allying them with secret organizations, which naturally foster distrust. In truth, Anonymous is not organized in any standard way and has no real secrets because all of their work is done openly online. Anyone with a little understanding of the internet can observe or participate in what they are doing.

Now secrets naturally breed lies and often violence because they require protection. Non-transparency is often the primary source of danger from any conventional organization. That's what this whole web site is about.

One of the main complaints Anonymous has against the Church of Scientology is that it operates as organized crime to protect its secrets. It even has an internal intelligence agency called the Office of Special Affairs.
en.wikipedia.org...

The original poster is most likely a plant from the OSA because he is creating "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt" about Anonymous, which is actually a transparent group (not organization) of people from all walks of life who can finally stand up to the Church of Scientology (not against their religion, but the crimes) because of their Anonymity. The Church has a long history of attacking critics, which it calls "Suppressive Persons."

Here is an ex-OSA operative describing A. How he tried to destroy a psychiatrist and his pregnat wife by lacing their toothpaste with '___' and B. How he broke into the CA Attorney General's office to steal documents relating to the "church's" tax exemption. That was Operation Snow White.

This stuff is very fascinating. [Mod Edit]

This is serious business, however, and one prominent critic dies in a mysterious way just days ago. There were some false flag warnings about it beforehand, too. His name was Shawn Lonsdale, the guy in the BBC espose on criminal practices of the cult.

edit Scientology OSA crime videos link added
www.youtube.com...
[edit on 25-2-2008 by GoblinBlix]

[edit on 25-2-2008 by GoblinBlix]




[Mod Edit: In order to foster as free a discussion as possible ATS remains neutral on matters. In order that this should be seen as such potential advertising/recruitment in the manner here is not accepted. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use 1e and 4. Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 25/2/08 by JAK]

reply to post by KosherKrackers


And therein lies the critical difference between a simple protest group and Anon.

You're not dead yet.

The trick is to find a way that will ensure not only your survival, but your supremacy on a long-term basis, instead of trying to challenge things short-term.

That way, you enter the big leagues of power.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
If you want to take action against a certain priest then you take action against that priest, his organization/religion is irrelevant. If you're problem is the pedophilia, then you focus on that, not Catholicism. If your problem is criminals within Scientology, you focus on arresting those criminals, not on Scientology.

but, to use the Catholic metaphor some more, my problem is not simply with one or two pedophile priests, but with the organizational structure that white washed there history and moved them from place to place as they molested more kids so that the bad PR of pedophile priests would be hidden even if it caused more suffering. it's bigger than just one or two people, there are problems across the whole organization that are criminal and need to be dealt with. I have a beef with the corporate entity as well as the people who that corporate entity enabled.

reply to post by freight tomsen


Well, you're certainloy free to your opinion, I exercise my right to this by holding an opposing one.

If you had any information about Anonymous, and s pentsome time researching into it, you'd find it as ridiculous as I do, to say that the government is pulling the strings.

No-one in Anonymous has more voice than anyone else, especially not in the places this whole thing started snowballing from, so while it may potentially have been instigated by a third party in the government, it certainly isn't influenced by them now.

Anonymous is simply too chaotic, and anyone higher up would realise that this would be just as likely to fall around about his ears, as to succeed.

Secondly, the abuse is perpetrated by the church, the changing of leadership changed nothing in the past, again, on what basis do you assume that it will now?

Regard my post about religion/organisation above. You earlier mentioned strawmen, I ask you then, why do you not adress what I have to say?

If it hasn't been mentioned already, one could research "Carnivore" and "Eschelon" to look into the evidence of intelligence agencies monitoring the internet. However, you must also realize that even the conversations caught by the key words are then further filtered, etc. by complex programming, and condensed down to a level to be reviewed by actual people.

Statistically, this would still be akin to capturing a bucket of information, but only being able to look at one drop of water at a time...so even if your communications have keywords in them, unless they are a) often, b) connecting to suspicious servers, and/or c) prioritized by the programming as high risk, you don't really have to worry about someone looking in on your text message or chatroom posting in everyday conversation...they simply don't have the manpower or computing power to handle the overwhelming amount of information to look at everything....

Originally posted by Throbber
It's not a question of my belief, sir.

P.S: I do so hope you aren't suggesting/insinuating i'm some sort of disinfo agent, i'm not sure what the correct protocol is on ATS for deflecting that kind of accusation.

nah, we sort have a thing about "don't just take my word for it look it up your self", it's better to see in cold hard undeniable reality than to simply take some one's word for it. I don't think you are any sort of OSA plant, I just wanted to remind you there is more to what I say than just taking my word for it.