Russia announces new nuclear arms race in response to hostile US moves

Originally posted by Odessit
What a nonsense, do you really think Russia cannot compete?

It cannot, and it is not, which is partially why they want to ban the use of weapons in space.

yES it can, and still does.

I am all ears sunshine.

Lets debate that further..

Us will never make russian military obsele, that is in your dreams, this is biased opinion without unsupported facts,

Well part of it is called FCS, or future combat systems. And yes, despite your poor skills to properly debate me, many do think Americas not so distant military force will make the worlds militarys obsolete. With advancements in ABM defenses, along with spaces forces such as FALCON and SUSTAIN, along with a plethora of other advancements (nano and bio tech) yes the US military is on the road to damn near invincibility. There will be no force that is as integrated, and/or as technologically advanced as the US forces is, or will be. This is all supported by fact. You base your "facts" off of your own biased opinion, all this, while I provide source material for confirmation, you simply choose not to.

Another example: The US infantry man will be damn near unstoppable. The US will be employing its soldiers with super strength in the form of exo skeletons, nano body smart armor, along with a plethora of other materials and gadgets by 2015-2020. 2-3rds of the US forces will be unmanned robotic by 2015!

it will take another 20 years for US to develop laser that will actually penetrate through the Topol-M.
Topol-M designed to survive a hit from any laser technology
en.wikipedia.org...

This is a HUGE assumption on your part. And Unless you personally know/work in the field, and know all the allocated funds, and research that is or has been going on in these various fields for the past few decades to present day, your 'opinion' is nothing more then uncorroborated fiction. Its worthless in other words..

The Pentagon's newest laser weapon has a peak power of more than a million megawatts, so intense that it warps the air around it. When the beam strikes the target it vaporises the impact site, producing a plasma fireball and a highly destructive shockwave.
source

Thats a pretty powerful 'fire ball', I doubt much could stand up to it.

The missile, with a range of about 7,000 miles (11,000 kms), is said to be immune to any current and future U.S. ABM defense. It is capable of making evasive maneuvers to avoid a kill by the use of terminal phase interceptors, and carries targeting countermeasures and decoys.
It is also shielded against radiation, electromagnetic pulse, nuclear blasts at distances more than 500 meters (1,650 feet) away, and is designed to survive a hit from any form of laser technology.

You know what they say about assumptions...

There is absolutely no fact to the above drivel (note the bold). On a lighter note, and since I am growing tired of the same old tactics employed by you, I am unconvinced.

It won't be hard for Russians to knock out american satellites from space.

But yet they cry when those mean "ol' Americans" put weapons into space.





[edit on 15-2-2008 by West Coast]

double post

[edit on 15-2-2008 by West Coast]

Makes me wonder if this is why Bush wants to make sure that we hit this satellite, with a missle. Maybe he wants to show Russia how much power we have?

Hilda

reply to post by Odessit


A word to the wise, here, but you're arguing with the wrong guy on this subject. Do a little research on West Coast's other posts and you'll find that he knows what he is talking about - even if you don't want to hear the truth.

Originally posted by West Coast
All "that" and those ruskies still lost the cold war?

Funnily after seventeen years of mostly withdrawing weapons from active service the Russian federation still has a relatively obvious parity in terms warheads , their accuracy and yield. I find it interesting that one can 'lose' and maintain them same strategic clout as the side the 'won. Can you clarify why the US 'won' but then disarmed in tandem with Russia so that open sources indicates parity?

Words cannot even describe how utterly ridiculous those claims are. A bunch of uncorroborated 'filth'.

Well i have supplied you with sources in the past that shows quite clearly that direct energy weapons were in active use by the late 70's and that both the US and USSR were 'seriously damaging' ( whatever that really means) each other's satellites. Why you think direct energy weapons in the form of various EM wave weapons as well as laser and particle beam weapons aren't in active service with both sides i do not know! If you don't think they have them now can you at least explain why you think either side would have dismantled theirs while they maintained nuclear weapons and SAM of so many descriptions?

Please, do me a favor and read the site motto, meantime, deny your own ignorance.

There is enough iron in that irony to break someone's back. You really need to stop making so many accusations when the best you can do is talk about future combat systems and civilian airframes with lasers!

"Q: Let me ask you specifically about last week's scare here in Washington, and what we might have learned from how prepared we are to deal with that (inaudible), at B'nai Brith.

A: Well, it points out the nature of the threat. It turned out to be a false threat under the circumstances. But as we've learned in the intelligence community, we had something called -- and we have James Woolsey here to perhaps even address this question about phantom moles. The mere fear that there is a mole within an agency can set off a chain reaction and a hunt for that particular mole which can paralyze the agency for weeks and months and years even, in a search. The same thing is true about just the false scare of a threat of using some kind of a chemical weapon or a biological one. There are some reports, for example, that some countries have been trying to construct something like an Ebola Virus, and that would be a very dangerous phenomenon, to say the least. Alvin Toeffler has written about this in terms of some scientists in their laboratories trying to devise certain types of pathogens that would be ethnic specific so that they could just eliminate certain ethnic groups and races; and others are designing some sort of engineering, some sort of insects that can destroy specific crops. Others are engaging even in an eco- type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

So there are plenty of ingenious minds out there that are at work finding ways in which they can wreak terror upon other nations. It's real, and that's the reason why we have to intensify our efforts, and that's why this is so important.

DoD News Briefing Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen

My question to you is just this: Who are these 'others' who can "alter the climate and set of earthquakes" and why can't the US just invade and or bomb them into submission? Would you really need DDX destroyers with rail guns as well as F-22's and aircraft carriers to fight 'terrorist' in caves? Just tell me how you have managed this fantasy where Russia is weak while having most of the capabilities , and i would argue the important one's, that they had back in 1990!

Stellar

[edit on 15-2-2008 by StellarX]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by Odessit
What a nonsense, do you really think Russia cannot compete?

It cannot, and it is not, which is partially why they want to ban the use of weapons in space.

yES it can, and still does.

I am all ears sunshine.

Lets debate that further..

Us will never make russian military obsele, that is in your dreams, this is biased opinion without unsupported facts,

Well part of it is called FCS, or future combat systems. And yes, despite your poor skills to properly debate me, many do think Americas not so distant military force will make the worlds militarys obsolete. With advancements in ABM defenses, along with spaces forces such as FALCON and SUSTAIN, along with a plethora of other advancements (nano and bio tech) yes the US military is on the road to damn near invincibility. There will be no force that is as integrated, and/or as technologically advanced as the US forces is, or will be. This is all supported by fact. You base your "facts" off of your own biased opinion, all this, while I provide source material for confirmation, you simply choose not to.

Another example: The US infantry man will be damn near unstoppable. The US will be employing its soldiers with super strength in the form of exo skeletons, nano body smart armor, along with a plethora of other materials and gadgets by 2015-2020. 2-3rds of the US forces will be unmanned robotic by 2015!

it will take another 20 years for US to develop laser that will actually penetrate through the Topol-M.
Topol-M designed to survive a hit from any laser technology
en.wikipedia.org...

This is a HUGE assumption on your part. And Unless you personally know/work in the field, and know all the allocated funds, and research that is or has been going on in these various fields for the past few decades to present day, your 'opinion' is nothing more then uncorroborated fiction. Its worthless in other words..

The Pentagon's newest laser weapon has a peak power of more than a million megawatts, so intense that it warps the air around it. When the beam strikes the target it vaporises the impact site, producing a plasma fireball and a highly destructive shockwave.
source

There is absolutely no fact to the above drivel (note the bold). On a lighter note, and since I am growing tired of the same old tactics employed by you, I am unconvinced.

It won't be hard for Russians to knock out american satellites from space.

But yet they cry when those mean "ol' Americans" put weapons into space.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by West Coast]

haha you saying that my opinion worthless but you forget to look at yours. what a hypocrite , aren't we? No one can predict how the russia's future army will develop, especially you, therefore saying that Russia's everything will be obsolete is a SLANDER , that is right. Because this is your BIASED assumption. You might want to check this out,
Russian future soldier www.youtube.com...
too bad you won't understand a single word of it, because you are to ignorant ot learn second language.

Sorry guys, but West Coast is right.
He has presented nothing but straight facts.

Have you even watched the video on
DARPA’s iXo Artificial Intelligence Control Grid?

I have yet to see what the Russians have that compares to
what the United States Military Industrial Complex is developing.
Seriously, if anyone can present something that remotely compares
to what is being developed I would love to see it.

AGI, FCS, Space-based weapons, Railguns, Lasers, most of what
West Coast brought up, can you present anything that compares?
(And that's the tech stuff they tell us about)
I've seen nothing so far that can compete.



[edit on 2/15/08 by aecreate]

Originally posted by aecreate
Sorry guys, but West Coast is right.
He has presented nothing but straight facts.

Have you even watched the video on
DARPA’s iXo Artificial Intelligence Control Grid?

I have yet to see what the Russians have that compares to
what the United States Military Industrial Complex is developing.
Seriously, if anyone can present something that remotely compares
to what is being developed I would love to see it.

AGI, FCS, Space-based weapons, Railguns, Lasers, most of what
West Coast brought up, can you present anything that compares?
(And that's the tech stuff they tell us about)
I've seen nothing so far that can compete.



[edit on 2/15/08 by aecreate]

Any country that has a big military budget can develop their own laser technology. You just said, West Coast is right, wow that is quiete a statement there , if you seriously believe that US will be invisible , then you must quickly as possible be checked to a nearest asylum, because if I am going to decide to show you some facts regarding russian future weaponary , you will be crying that you can't read it because it is in Russian, sad but true, that majority Americans speak only ONE language, and they don't even bother learning another one.
How things go in Life is that, there will always be a balance, it is a destiny, therefore US will never dominate, neither will Russia or any other country. So you can scream with your spit leaking out of your mouth, it won't change the situation.

Centruian1211,

You are quite right. I already applied the 'Coup de Grace' to Odessit and thus consider him to be utterly and completely defeated in this debate.

Odessit, no one is screaming here, my friend.

Have you watched the video? It was made by someone who is against the
United State's imperialisitic ways. Everything that's in that video is REAL.
You can actually "see" some of the systems they have. It certainly isn't
41 seconds of a CG soldier spinning around. Its 21 minutes of cold hard facts.

Full Spectrum Domination. Do yourself a favor and educate
yourself on what they are developing, and what they already have
available. Don't you think it's kinda funny how we police the world?
This is Manifest Destiny to the max.

I would still love to see what you can provide that's
comparable to what has been presented thus far.
I don't care if its in Russian.

Did you read the Future Combat Systems article?

Here's another good one:
Massive defense software under scrutiny

Here's a great thread:
DARPA AI .mil & more

This is the being called the biggest government commitment to technological research since the space program. They are building a "God on Earth" system. It's unprecedented. I don't even think they know the implications. You are sadly wrong to think this technology won't "change the situation". It's going to change everything.

IIB, the one who made the DARPA video,
covers the issue quite well in these threads,
which I encourage everyone to check out:

Beyond Conspiracy: Artificial General Intelligence (Newsletter Special)

DARPA's iXo Artificial Intelligence Control Grid: 'The Official Version'

An Inconvenient Truth ON Al Gore: The Google A.I. Conspiracy

Couple More Years: Artificial Intelligence and "Religions Last Stand"

Another thread:
Beyond AI today! "The Beast"?

Can you refute anything that has been brought up?

I feel I have derailed this thread. To make this short, if Russia thinks it has anything on the MIC, its in for a huge reailty check.

Originally posted by aecreate
Odessit, no one is screaming here, my friend.

Have you watched the video? It was made by someone who is against the
United State's imperialisitic ways. Everything that's in that video is REAL.
You can actually "see" some of the systems they have. It certainly isn't
41 seconds of a CG soldier spinning around. Its 21 minutes of cold hard facts.

Full Spectrum Domination. Do yourself a favor and educate
yourself on what they are developing, and what they already have
available. Don't you think it's kinda funny how we police the world?
This is Manifest Destiny to the max.

I would still love to see what you can provide that's
comparable to what has been presented thus far.
I don't care if its in Russian.

Did you read the Future Combat Systems article?

Here's another good one:
Massive defense software under scrutiny

Here's a great thread:
DARPA AI .mil & more

This is the being called the biggest government commitment to technological research since the space program. They are building a "God on Earth" system. It's unprecedented. I don't even think they know the implications. You are sadly wrong to think this technology won't "change the situation". It's going to change everything.

IIB, the one who made the DARPA video,
covers the issue quite well in these threads,
which I encourage everyone to check out:

Beyond Conspiracy: Artificial General Intelligence (Newsletter Special)

DARPA's iXo Artificial Intelligence Control Grid: 'The Official Version'

An Inconvenient Truth ON Al Gore: The Google A.I. Conspiracy

Couple More Years: Artificial Intelligence and "Religions Last Stand"

Another thread:
Beyond AI today! "The Beast"?

Can you refute anything that has been brought up?

I feel I have derailed this thread. To make this short, if Russia thinks it has anything on the MIC, its in for a huge reailty check.

I don't need to educate myself, you're the one who needs it, I already seen all those videos, who's going to pay for it, what money? Your debt is bought by CHINESE, your economy is becoming worse every year, thanks to people Bush, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice.
You should check how many dictators did US have created since WWII.
I love how US boomed # out of Iraq,destroyed Medicare system which was the best and free in a entire region, and robbed them from oil. That's how you democracy works.

US powerful nation but can't afford universal Medicare System for own citizens - what a joke!

Originally posted by Odessit
reply to post by West Coast

 

you obviously don't realize that Russians don't need to spend as much as US , and still produce equal if not superior weapons to counter. There is a saying in Russia, that US spend billions of dollars for these defense missiles and we will develop for 1/3 price of what Americans spend , something that will counter it".
So it is out of question West Coast.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by Odessit]

That is quite funny, afterall, US equipment has dominated over Russian equipment in every battle since 45. Only the AK-47 is a better weapon made by Russia. Ask the arabs how well their soviet junk did against the Israeli's and their American Equipment!

And that soviet equipment the iraqi's had sure did well against the US didn't it?

So you read all that material in less than 13 minutes?

I'm still waiting for you to provide something interesting.

How's it being funded? Why do you think the opium production
has sky-rocketed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Who do you think is
profiting from that? How about all that oil? Where did Condoleeza
Rice work before?

Get real man.

Hah, what are the Chinese going to do when the dollar tanks?
Their economy is very dependent on ours, we buy a lot of their crap.

Our economy is becoming weak on purpose, in my opinion.
They need it to tank, they need this depression, they need
a very long and large war. This is a "war economy" afterall.

Don't think for a second that I promote or support American Foreign Policy.
Now that's a joke!

I really hope you can comprehend what's in the works.
This converstaion is over. Good luck on ATS.

Originally posted by US Monitor

Originally posted by Odessit
reply to post by West Coast

 

you obviously don't realize that Russians don't need to spend as much as US , and still produce equal if not superior weapons to counter. There is a saying in Russia, that US spend billions of dollars for these defense missiles and we will develop for 1/3 price of what Americans spend , something that will counter it".
So it is out of question West Coast.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by Odessit]

That is quite funny, afterall, US equipment has dominated over Russian equipment in every battle since 45. Only the AK-47 is a better weapon made by Russia. Ask the arabs how well their soviet junk did against the Israeli's and their American Equipment!

And that soviet equipment the iraqi's had sure did well against the US didn't it?

that's quite a worthless and biased statement there , so sad and pitiful.
Forgot the might rpg-7? the simple grenade propelled rocket, known to knock out abrams. You talking about latest weapons vs Iraqi 60's junk, and did you know that most t-72 were made by iraqis, their own version.
Since you've touched Israeli's you might want to get educated how many Merkava's IV were knocked out by the latest russian equipment in conflict recently, hahaha.
In 1992 americans and russians had a stage fight between Su-27 and F-15, guess who won, Su-27. for some reasons americans didn't like that info to be released, no surprise there.

www.youtube.com...
here are facts from a pilot.

with the posted links, this has been one of the most Intellectually stimulating threads i have read on this site. acknowledging past events, events happening now, and Earth shaking events to come. Connecting the dots between experts, tech advancements, the current cold war, and even literal biblical scripture on End Times in a new light. reminiscing the masterpieces of thoughtful media such as Terminator, Matrix, Ghost in the Shell. It's hard for normal people to envision the world 20 years from now because the types of changes to occur will be extremely abnormal. At this moment in time we are witnessing the pivoting point in man. I can only hope that i will live long enough to see the Golden Age. The Real Golden Age.

Originally posted by aecreate
So you read all that material in less than 13 minutes?

I'm still waiting for you to provide something interesting.

How's it being funded? Why do you think the opium production
has sky-rocketed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Who do you think is
profiting from that? How about all that oil? Where did Condoleeza
Rice work before?

Get real man.

Hah, what are the Chinese going to do when the dollar tanks?
Their economy is very dependent on ours, we buy a lot of their crap.

Our economy is becoming weak on purpose, in my opinion.
They need it to tank, they need this depression, they need
a very long and large war. This is a "war economy" afterall.

Don't think for a second that I promote or support American Foreign Policy.
Now that's a joke!

I really hope you can comprehend what's in the works.
This converstaion is over. Good luck on ATS.

Do you know why the Opium production has increased since americans arrived in Afganistan, quite funny to me.
The chinese slowly will be buy things in Euros, they are already doing it with their oil, so it won't be any longer when it happens.
well I am glad at least you're clever. because with posts of West coast thinking that US should rule the world, will make anyone's iq go down, no joke.
See, i am sick with US trying to stick their nose, where they don't belong, I don't understand why would Russia cancel 12Billion dollars debt to Iraq?
Explain this to me? Same with Algier.
Also I don't like US gov trying to make puppet gov in Ukraine, that sickens me the most. You know when I was vacationing In Odessa, Ukraine a resort city, I noticed many pedophiles from America trying to get 12,13 year girls, I was laying next to several of them on the beach and over heard such words which made me dumbfounded , there are so many americans coming there and praying on little girls. terrible.

reply to post by Odessit


I fully agree this country is going to pot real fast. I have noticed there are more and more men messing with young girls as well, and when the army goes to other countries we know some young girls will no longer be virgins when they leave.

Look at China for instance, the prostitute out there young girls to the Americans its sick but many Americans pay the money for that stuff.

I am sure that most of the drugs that are now over there were brought in by the US, figure it this way if we get them all high enough they wont care if we are shooting the heck out of them all.

Hilda

Look at this picture, and tell me russia should not be worried.



Russia has every right to be worried, like i said so many times, russia is the last thing standing between the nwo from getting total dominance. I am never to sure about china, they seem to not be as anti nwo as we think.

[edit on 2/16/2008 by andy1033]

reply to post by andy1033


I fully agree, like I told hubby this is the same as if someone stood on my property line with a gun pointed at my front door. So yes something will happen sooner or later. The US just is ignoring it and doing what they want to push and push well soon enough they will push to far. Us USA citizens will pay the price when world war 3 starts. While the president and government folks go hide there butts in there bunkers. If they start a war and I happen to see a government man begging for food, I will shoot him in the A$$ so fast he wont know what hit him.

Hilda

Originally posted by StellarX
Funnily after seventeen years of mostly withdrawing weapons from active service the Russian federation still has a relatively obvious parity in terms warheads , their accuracy and yield.

So, the Soviet Union did "not" collapse by your accounts, Stellar?

Stellar, you are by far, the most biased person on this board. You know damn well the soviet union no longer exist today thanks to their inability to keep pace in the arms race with the US (I acknowledge other reasons, however, this is one of the main ones).

I find it interesting that one can 'lose' and maintain them same strategic clout as the side the 'won. Can you clarify why the US 'won' but then disarmed in tandem with Russia so that open sources indicates parity?

Unless you yourself have worked inside the defense department, the point is moot.

Well i have supplied you with sources in the past that shows quite clearly that direct energy weapons were in active use by the late 70's and that both the US and USSR were 'seriously damaging' ( whatever that really means) each other's satellites. Why you think direct energy weapons in the form of various EM wave weapons as well as laser and particle beam weapons aren't in active service with both sides i do not know! If you don't think they have them now can you at least explain why you think either side would have dismantled theirs while they maintained nuclear weapons and SAM of so many descriptions?

Lasers were developed/deployed back then, sure. However the technology back then prohibited a lot of what we could do with them (mainly a reliable energy source) and cost was/is a big "de facto". So the infrastructure just wasn't there at the time. Of course things are changing now.

There is enough iron in that irony to break someone's back. You really need to stop making so many accusations when the best you can do is talk about future combat systems and civilian airframes with lasers!

That is the typical knee-jerk reaction response. So, you haven't actually gone through the source material provided in this thread? You are wasting my time Stellar...

My question to you is just this: Who are these 'others' who can "alter the climate and set of earthquakes" and why can't the US just invade and or bomb them into submission?

I have no doubt that research is going on in 'several' country's that plans to do just "that". Alter our climate to use as a Force multiplier. However, that is where I believe we are at, just the research phase. Your source is a perfect excuse to allocate more funds into said area to deter "perceived" threats. That is how I perceive it (your source), nothing more.

Here is some more info, to enlighten others on the subject. U.S. Military Wants to Own the Weather

To my knowledge, the US is the only one to publish such ambitions to the public.

Would you really need DDX destroyers with rail guns as well as F-22's and aircraft carriers to fight 'terrorist' in caves?

This is something that is a lot deeper, a lot bigger then meets the eye. This is something that spans from 4-5 decades of careful planning and researching. What you are seeing now, is the accumulation of that careful research and planning "coming together". And now, it is called "Project of the New American Century (PNAC)". In which AI, along with various Hi-tech methods will be employed.

Just tell me how you have managed this fantasy where Russia is weak while having most of the capabilities , and i would argue the important one's, that they had back in 1990!

Stellar

because it is the "facts", if you care to look at them.

that they had back in 1990

This is where America is leap frogging Russia, building up its forces into a newer, ultra hi-tech force that can "increase the pace of battle" and an "Integrated force that uses overwhelmingly, accurate, fire power." as well as "to dominate space, and deny anyone access/entry into space if needed". It goes on and on...

Among a roster of projected Air Force space projects:

* Air-Launched Anti-Satellite Missile: Small air-launched missile capable of intercepting satellites in low Earth orbit and seen as a past 2015 development.
* Counter Satellite Communications System: Provides the capability by 2010 to deny and disrupt an adversary's space-based communications and early warning.
* Counter Surveillance and Reconnaissance System: A near-term program to deny, disrupt and degrade adversary space-based surveillance and reconnaissance systems.
* Evolutionary Air and Space Global Laser Engagement (EAGLE) Airship Relay Mirrors: Significantly extends the range of both the Airborne Laser and Ground-Based Laser by using airborne, terrestrial or space-based lasers in conjunction with space-based relay mirrors to project different laser powers and frequencies to achieve a broad range of effects from illumination to destruction.
* Ground-Based Laser: Propagates laser beams through the atmosphere to Low-Earth Orbit satellites to provide robust, post-2015 defensive and offensive space control capability.
* Hypervelocity Rod Bundles: Provides the capability to strike ground targets anywhere in the world from space.
* Orbital Deep Space Imager: A mid-term predictive, near-real time common operating picture of space to enable space control operations.
* Orbital Transfer Vehicle: Significantly adds flexibility and protection of U.S. space hardware in post-2015 while enabling on-orbit servicing of those assets.
* Rapid Attack Identification Detection and Reporting System: A family of systems that will provide near-term capability to automatically identify when a space system is under attack.
* Space-Based Radio Frequency Energy Weapon: A far-term constellation of satellites containing high-power radio-frequency transmitters that possess the capability to disrupt/destroy/disable a wide variety of electronics and national-level command and control systems. It would typically be used as a non-kinetic anti-satellite weapon.
* Space-Based Space Surveillance System: A near-term constellation of optical sensing satellites to track and identify space forces in deep space to enable offensive and defensive counterspace operations.

[edit on 17-2-2008 by West Coast]