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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by brinkofluv
Let me point out one of these teachings of Christ: That there is 'only one God, Father of Christ and no one cometh to the Father but through Him (Christ) and Him alone'.
Apparently, freemasonry (not individuals) not only 'ignores' this rule when accepting its members, but as a matter of principle flouts it.
Interesting...
So Christian Masons are "bad Masons" because they are with people who are not Christian? God is God, there is no definition of God, but rather an independant version depending on the individual.
My God is different then YOUR God.
A Christian Mason will believe God is the One God, and the holy Father of Christ.
But I wouldn't. And a Jew wouldn't.. and a Wiccan wouldnt.
Why should we have Christians suppress us with THEIR theology? The nature of Masonry is to free men from the bonds of Dogma, and to use its philosophies to further their individual religious commitments.
Maybe masonry is really really flexible. I don't know. Would I be allowed (going by your logic of course) to say freemasonry stands for nothing exactly then??
Originally posted by Rockpuck
[Freemasonry has no stance] ...so essentially taking no preference, thus no stance, or essentially nothing in particular.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by brinkofluv
Really? Personally.. I find that believing in ONE God and only that God and all other peoples beliefs in God being wrong, so that they should be punished, ridiculed, outcasted, looked down on and other wise thought of as "subhuman" would be a far bigger prohibitor of Light and Wisdom.
By standing for no one God in particular, it allows all men of all faiths to work together to do good, without having to worry about Dogmatic belief systems that rigerously regulate individuals.
In other words... the complete opposite of what you think.
Though I do see exactly how you would come to that conclussion.
Originally posted by brinkofluv
Hello Trinity.
I never said you serve more than one God. I agree with you that there is only one true God. I also said 'spending time' with people of different faiths is not a bad thing. I said it happens in offices, social groups and countless other gatherings. However, there is a significant difference between (a) accepting people of different faiths into your group and (b) actually insisting 'absolutely' that without those beliefs (which can be of a varied nature) one cannot join your group.
I also said i found the totality of this rule(option b) baffling because religious beliefs (indeed for any religion) have never been a guarantee of moral and upright behavior of individuals, qualities I assume responsible organizations such as yours look for when accepting/initiating members.
Unfortunately also, some beliefs actually advocate wrongful and unjust practices. I remember using 'devil worship' though I have admitted that this was used for dramatic effect. Nonetheless, religions like that exist. Something masonry doesn't seem bothered about as option b seems quite ambiguous.
SIDENOTE: I find the discussion (by masonic brothers in the above thread) on the expelled wiccan (pro or against) quite interesting.
Let me point out one of these teachings of Christ: That there is 'only one God, Father of Christ and no one cometh to the Father but through Him (Christ) and Him alone'. Apparently, freemasonry (not individuals) not only 'ignores' this rule when accepting its members, but as a matter of principle flouts it.
Originally posted by brinkofluv
Again it was a mason who said(not me) that masonic laws are based on Christian teachings. I believe he also went as far as to say 'exclusively'.
Maybe masonry is really really flexible. I don't know. Would I be allowed (going by your logic of course) to say freemasonry stands for nothing exactly then??
It has strict rules and expects strict adhesion to those rules by its followers. It doesn't say(stereotyping) ridicule or outcast anyone, but does outline that people are different by their faith(by their fruits ye shall know them), and they ARE.
whatever we find from the Bible we consider useful, and discard its most basic and sacred teachings.
if 'we' are not going to respect and honor IN FULL the true message of the Bible, then perhaps 'we' should be forthright enough to exclude completely it's teachings and use from 'our' philosophies, rituals and ceremonies.
But then again that wouldn't be convenient.
Nothing like dogma eh? Perhaps there CAN be order out of chaos after all.
Originally posted by Rockpuck
Why do that? that is childish. Can one not read the passages of the Bible and respect its beauty, its meaning, its wisdom and its history.. yet not subscribe to the Dogma that dictates an individuals submission to one faith?
Originally posted by RockpuckAs long as Chaos is recognized by all individual parties within the system, Chaos become the order by which they operate.
Originally posted by RockpuckNice to have a civil, intellectual conversation with someone on this forum....
Originally posted by Rockpuck
Hmm. I see what you mean. Except, the Bible is not used for its actual meaning.. that is.. Christ. In fact, Christ is never mentioned (in my state, or in the Northern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite) once in Masonry.
Originally posted by brinkofluv
Originally posted by Rockpuck
Hmm. I see what you mean. Except, the Bible is not used for its actual meaning.. that is.. Christ. In fact, Christ is never mentioned (in my state, or in the Northern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite) once in Masonry.
Hmm. Then maybe It shouldn't be used at all.
Originally posted by Malevolent_Aliens
99.999% of Freemasons really don't know what it's all about.
Originally posted by New Age Bounty Hunter
I see post from masons explaining all the good and upstanding things masons do, and how harmless masons are. If they are so " good " can someone please explain the following to me.
How come freemasons need such huge, and elaborate buildings, just to do blood drives and give to charities? I know that they do rituals and have meetings, but the local lodge here is as grand as the surpreme court building. Why the need for such costly huge buildings?
Why are freemasons excommunicated from the church? Why did Hitler want them exterminated? Why were they concidered criminals in China, Russia, and other countries?
Why would anyone take blood oaths, to protect the secrets of some meaningless ritual, and secrets of the organization? And anyone who tells the secrets or attemps to tell, turns up dead or disappears. Who knows how many people who have disappeared or is missing thoughout history by the hands of masons. I know of one, Captian William Morgan, who screamed murder as he was kidnapped and never seen again, by the masons after he threaten to write a book about the secrets.
I have never seen these questions answered my the masons yet. I have seen tombstones at the cemetery with all these masonic symbols, square and compass, but I have not seen any tombstones with the masonic symbol and any other religious symbol combined, like the Christian cross, or the Star of David. Why is that? They say they believe in God.
Can I get an answer to these questions from a true mason? Or will I get the same old reply. "Well we do blood drives, and give to needy, and our rituals are not anything but acting."
Originally posted by orangeman dave
I would say Hitler wanted rid of the Freemasons as he was a Roman Catholic and The Roman Catholic church were heavily involved in WW2.
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by orangeman dave
I would say Hitler wanted rid of the Freemasons as he was a Roman Catholic and The Roman Catholic church were heavily involved in WW2.
I was under the impression that Hitler was a Lutheran.